CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #4

[noodled1]

Didn't they check her room around the sixth when the parents complained of not hearing from her since the 31st?

Of course they did. It would be the very first place they looked

 

[noodled1]

And the 24 hr vigil of the dead body, dead person's photo, flowers, candles, etc. by family members who take turns... to do this for at least one whole day, up to a few days. I imagine this might seem creepy to some but that is tradition. In my Cantonese speaking family at least...

I've mentioned before my wife is Chinese, born in Malaysia. When her grandfather died they did all those things you mention and even paid a woman to sit behind a curtain and cry for him one afternoon...

 

[Xavier]

The elevator area is quite small, or maybe it is the angle of the pic. Would she see only blurs when standing outside the door? This shot is the 15th floor but if you look at the fire evacuation map for the 14th floor there is no corridor to the left, only the fire escape. I would thank that if her eyesight were that far gone she would have brought her glasses. According to family/friends on FB Group page on finding EL, she did not take her glasses on this trip. Source: CBS Local interview with LAPD 2/13

Honestly, why would someone do that if she could not see without glasses or contacts? She did over nights on trains too and unless she had a very expensive sleeper car she would have been open to someone stealing her belongings or not being able to get up and move around safely without her contacts. Can you wear contact lenses 24/7? I don't use glasses, but just seems a little foolhardy on her part to travel alone and make yourself easy prey by announcing to people that you cannot see very well some of the time, IMHO. I don't think poor vision explains her behavior.

I found this pic along with several others an interesting FB Group page on investigating EL's death . I have yet to see these photos posted anywhere else. Scroll through the rest and see what you think.

EL FB Investigation Group (it is in Chinese)

I noticed even in the videos, near the elevator are guest rooms, if not directly across the elevator

I wonder if anyone heard something between EL and the perp outside the elevator?

I wonder if LAPD interviewed anyone on the 14th floor at all?

 

[Borris]

I noticed even in the videos, near the elevator are guest rooms, if not directly across the elevator

I wonder if anyone heard something between EL and the perp outside the elevator?

I wonder if LAPD interviewed anyone on the 14th floor at all?

Honestly, is it really necessary to put your posts in bold lettering?

 

[FutzBucket]

Prove that you didn't pull the TOD of Feb 14-16 out of your butt. Go cite a reference for it.

I can't find it, man, but I remember hearing a reporter mention that the body may have been hidden for as long as 2-weeks before being placed in the tank.

If you want to think that means I'm just wrong, fine. I'm gonna keep talking though, because I think I'm right.

 

[Robert White]

1:30
The suspect gives Elisa 20-seconds exactly to leave the 14th floor. Unknown to both, Elisa keeps pressing the "HOLD DOOR" button, and the suspect believes this confirms Elisa is a threat.

In my professional opinion, there is no other explanation to this action. I believe Elisa went to the 14th floor by accident and tried to enter the wrong room. This made the occupant in that room believe Elisa was a threat, and he followed her to the elevator. The suspect gives her a chance to leave, and when she fails to, he believes this confirms she's a threat, and he then takes her up to the roof and seals her in the water-tank.

This is just my opinion, but please consider that I'm not just some guy pulling this from my butt.

Snipped for space and context.

You make interesting points, however there are a number of things that stick out to me. Making your person safe, neutralizing threats, and murder are different things.

Say she did enter the wrong room and then realized she made a mistake and in her embarrassment, ran to the elevator. The person follows her out, weapon drawn in fear. Realizes its a young girl who's just made a mistake. Here's where I have an issue. Your theory suggests its a person defending him/herself. That's fine. You'd realize your not in danger the minute you see Elisa in the elevator. Now you've just escalated your level from defensive to murder. Furthermore, why use the tank? Your going to take a conscious person and stick them in a tank? I can state that most individuals will not take off their clothes and crawl into a tank without a struggle.

I've approached your angle from an open mind, but from my own professional/personal experience there are a few strong flaws that must be taken into account.

 

[noodled1]

Is the TOD of Feb 14 to 16 accurate ? Or was that possibly an error in reporting?

It's a horror to think of her captive somewhere in a busy hotel with people everywhere
around for 2 weeks.

I believe that was made up by one of our more creative posters. I myself and others have asked time and time again for a link and it falls on deaf ears

 

[Peace777]

Sorry, what video are you talking about? The original post seems to be snipped.

I didn't go to youtube to watch the video as a few pics were posted at abovetopsecret site and I copied the 1 pic to here. Was a video with Chinese titles is all I know, sorry. This case is being discussed in a lot of online forums, so hope the LAPD can solve this case.

 

[FutzBucket]

Snipped for space and context.

You make interesting points, however there are a number of things that stick out to me. Making your person safe, neutralizing threats, and murder are different things.

Say she did enter the wrong room and then realized she made a mistake and in her embarrassment, ran to the elevator. The person follows her out, weapon drawn in fear. Realizes its a young girl who's just made a mistake. Here's where I have an issue. Your theory suggests its a person defending him/herself. That's fine. You'd realize your not in danger the minute you see Elisa in the elevator. Now you've just escalated your level from defensive to murder. Furthermore, why use the tank? Your going to take a conscious person and stick them in a tank? I can state that most individuals will not take off their clothes and crawl into a tank without a struggle.

I've approached your angle from an open mind, but from my own professional/personal experience there are a few strong flaws that must be taken into account.

Murder was never the intent. If the suspect wanted to murder her, he would have simply pushed her from the roof. The motive for the water-tank is that is the only place he could think of to detain her.

He couldn't take her to the lobby, because he doesn't trust them either.

 

[Xavier]

I've been asking myself why am I so certain of what I believe I'm seeing in this video. Then it dawned on me; it's my job!

I'm a night auditor in hotels. I've been one for over 10-years, and part of my job is staring at security footage to determine what happened.

I've dealt with almost every kind of situation you could possibly imagine, and the only thing, in my professional opinion, that explains this video is she ran into a paranoid schizophrenic.

I know night auditors have a reputation of being worthless, and most are. I know it's not a glamorous job, but it's my job, and I take it pretty serious. If I was working there, this never would have happened, because I would have been watching the monitors, like I been doing for about 6-hours a day, 5-days a week, for the last 10-years.

I know hotels, I know security footage, and I know people. This is how I know what I'm looking at, and even then this video took me about 2-days to figure out. It's a tough video to figure out.

I'm not a detective in any way. I'd be completely worthless in any other investigation. It just happens that my particular skill set is perfect for this particular case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3TjVBpyTeZM#t=90s

1:30
The suspect gives Elisa 20-seconds exactly to leave the 14th floor. Unknown to both, Elisa keeps pressing the "HOLD DOOR" button, and the suspect believes this confirms Elisa is a threat.

In my professional opinion, there is no other explanation to this action. I believe Elisa went to the 14th floor by accident and tried to enter the wrong room. This made the occupant in that room believe Elisa was a threat, and he followed her to the elevator. The suspect gives her a chance to leave, and when she fails to, he believes this confirms she's a threat, and he then takes her up to the roof and seals her in the water-tank.

This is just my opinion, but please consider that I'm not just some guy pulling this from my butt.

Good theory Futz -- And when she gets back into the elevator, she has an expression like "OH Whatever" to whomever she talking to

But I'd imagine maybe she screamed too

And wondering if LAPD interviewed the residents rooms across the elevator for anything the occupants heard

Other questions I'm thinking the 14th floor is the obvious starting point for LAPD to begin interviews of those residents

I've read the 14th floor is where the long term occupants live

 

[Robert White]

FutzBucket:I've been a huge proponent of open mindedness, however do you not feel there are some huge logic jumps here? You are assuming that this person now is mentally ill.

That still does not explain certain actions that Elisa committed in the elevator (ie. she looked right, as where your theory suggest individual was left).

When they teach us risk assessment, they focus on an "all hazard approach" vs. single threats. The point I am trying to make here, is that I think you believe in your own theory so much, you are failing to see the flaws in it. Try opening up and see past your set theories about the video and so forth. Trust me. I am taught and do this almost every day. I can never just focus on the threat of terrorism, I have to focus on natural disasters, accidents, insider threats, and so forth. Its the same here. Focus on the big picture.

Good luck mate.

<modsnip>

 

[Turk February]

I can't find it, man, but I remember hearing a reporter mention that the body may have been hidden for as long as 2-weeks before being placed in the tank.

If you want to think that means I'm just wrong, fine. I'm gonna keep talking though, because I think I'm right.

And what reporter?

What media station? We can't tell if what you're stating is fact or a made-up rumor.

 

[Xavier]

Snipped for space and context.

You make interesting points, however there are a number of things that stick out to me. Making your person safe, neutralizing threats, and murder are different things.

Say she did enter the wrong room and then realized she made a mistake and in her embarrassment, ran to the elevator. The person follows her out, weapon drawn in fear. Realizes its a young girl who's just made a mistake. Here's where I have an issue. Your theory suggests its a person defending him/herself. That's fine. You'd realize your not in danger the minute you see Elisa in the elevator. Now you've just escalated your level from defensive to murder. Furthermore, why use the tank? Your going to take a conscious person and stick them in a tank? I can state that most individuals will not take off their clothes and crawl into a tank without a struggle.

I've approached your angle from an open mind, but from my own professional/personal experience there are a few strong flaws that must be taken into account.

Futz -- your theory makes sense, especially if the resident is mentally ill, like schizo-affective,etc and is going through some paranoid episode and has a weapon

Robert -- a mentally ill person maybe in a delusional episode might not be thinking he's committing murder if he feels Elisa's a threat...My younger brother is schizophrenic and I've seen some of his wild outbursts over nothing, very trivial matters

 

[FutzBucket]

FutzBucket:I've been a huge proponent of open mindedness, however do you not feel there are some huge logic jumps here? You are assuming that this person now is mentally ill.

That still does not explain certain actions that Elisa committed in the elevator (ie. she looked right, as where your theory suggest individual was left).

When they teach us risk assessment, they focus on an "all hazard approach" vs. single threats. The point I am trying to make here, is that I think you believe in your own theory so much, you are failing to see the flaws in it. Try opening up and see past your set theories about the video and so forth. Trust me. I am taught and do this almost every day. I can never just focus on the threat of terrorism, I have to focus on natural disasters, accidents, insider threats, and so forth. Its the same here. Focus on the big picture.

Good luck mate.

<modsnip>

I've been assuming the suspect is mentally ill for a while now. I base this assumption on the systematic ruling out of other possibilities.

I didn't create this, I simply started ruling out other situations, and this is what I'm left with, and it just happens to fit. My original concept was she was playing.

 

[Robert White]

Robert -- a mentally ill person maybe in a delusional episode might not be thinking he's committing murder if he feels Elisa's a threat...My younger brother is schizophrenic and I've seen some of his wild outbursts over nothing, very trivial matters

Xavier - I am not saying it doesn't make sense, but there are a number of logic flaws. Again, putting to why she would speak to her right, when according to this theory, the individual would be to her right. Furthermore, a large percentage of people do not and would not act the way Elisa did under duress, especially that of a weapon (in this theory, a gun). While we can speculate on the state of Elisa's condition via her social media, and so forth, how can we put forward a condition on someone that may or may not exist?

 

[bessie]

I didn't go to youtube to watch the video as a few pics were posted at abovetopsecret site and I copied the 1 pic to here. Was a video with Chinese titles is all I know, sorry. This case is being discussed in a lot of online forums, so hope the LAPD can solve this case.

Thank you for clarifying for us that the source of the purported date of death mentioned earlier in this thread did not originate from a legitimate source, and as such, is rumor. So, until someone posts a link to the contrary, posts referencing this date will be snipped or removed entirely.

Murder was never the intent. If the suspect wanted to murder her, he would have simply pushed her from the roof. The motive for the water-tank is that is the only place he could think of to detain her.

He couldn't take her to the lobby, because he doesn't trust them either.

FutzBucket, please add an IMO or MOO to your post. The sentence I bolded, in particular, reads as fact, and it's not. Thank you!

 

[FutzBucket]

I'm confused. If the perp in this scenario is holding the elevator button to keep the doors open, why would they get mad that she was trying to keep the door open by gesturing?

Because, at that point, he is fully convinced that she is there to harm him. His thinking was something like this...

Suspect: "Are you here to hurt me?"
Elisa: "No, I promise."
Suspect: "Okay, then, you've got 20-seconds to leave."
*20-seconds later*
Elisa: "The elevator isn't working for some reason."
Suspect: "Bullcrap."

 

[Turk February]

I'm sorry but that entire narrative is pulled from your imagination.

To be fair, we are also using our imaginations into our theories and speculations too.

Although at least most of use facts and logic to back it up. So FutzBucket, did the alleged gunman shoot Elisa?

Elisa could of just screamed for help knowing the resident rooms are just twenty steps away from the elevator.

 

[Turk February]

Because, at that point, he is fully convinced that she is there to harm him. His thinking was something like this...

Suspect: "Are you here to hurt me?"
Elisa: "No, I promise."
Suspect: "Okay, then, you've got 20-seconds to leave."
*20-seconds later*
Elisa: "The elevator isn't working for some reason."
Suspect: "Bullcrap."

Don't forget the :moo: or "I assume" to state that as an assumptive narrative of yours from now on.

Anybody could assume YOU were the suspect with that sort of vivid narrative :wink:

 

[Robert White]

Because, at that point, he is fully convinced that she is there to harm him. His thinking was something like this...

Suspect: "Are you here to hurt me?"
Elisa: "No, I promise."
Suspect: "Okay, then, you've got 20-seconds to leave."
*20-seconds later*
Elisa: "The elevator isn't working for some reason."
Suspect: "Bullcrap."

So why wouldn't Elisa run to the stairwell (assuming there is one) instead of sitting in the elevator? 20 seconds is a lot of time in a fight or flight situation.