CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #4

[skyfitsheaven]

what do you make of it?

I just saw that, too. Is that supposed to be Elisa on her trip? Can anyone read Chinese?

 

[broccoli]

Random thought: maybe Elisa was exploring on the roof and her glasses fell in the tank and, when she couldn't find help (or couldn't get down the elevator), she went in after them.

Sigh. Total shot in the dark. I'm reaching.

Sadly, the more I learn about the hotel, the more I actually lean toward foul play by the staff (or at least a lot of looking the other way).

 

[Myst]

what do you make of it?

Looks like it's showing a watch or something she wore? I dunno. What do you see/think?

 

[broccoli]

Looks like it's showing a watch or something she wore? I dunno. What do you see/think?

I think it's pointing out that the flannel under the coat matches the flannel in her old pic and, therefore, it must be her? I have no idea why that's be significant, though...

 

[cluciano63]

I think it is totally possible the verdict will be manner of death "undetermined", especially if cause of death is drowning, meaning she was alive when she entered the tank. If her body shows no trauma, it would be impossible to call it a homicide, IMO, without some other evidence. If she did not drown, then she was dead prior to entering the tank. Does that automatically mean she was murdered? Well, conceivably someone could have found her dead and disposed of her body in this way, especially if she had overdosed. People have disposed of bodies before for this reason, even a relative in one case we had here. Tox will at least show if she had taken/ingested enough of a mix of drugs, or of one drug, to overdose.

It will be horribly unsettling and unsatisfying if the conclusion is "undetermined" but not surprising to me, unless they really have a suspect.

 

[princessofmirth]

I'm leaning more and more towards it being a suicide. The queued up tumblr posts seem to be the biggest statement. You only do that if you know you won't be making any more posts, her earlier blogs never ending discussion of depression, then the video. I've come to think the video is nothing more than a young lady at odds with herself in her finals hours.

I'm not done digging yet but I think I'll refocus on things that will break down my current views instead of supporting them

IMHO, I think we're relying too much an internet account that may or may not be hacked. I've thought this since that Tarot card post. Perhaps it's just another internet troll getting a thrill??? Just throwing it out there.:twocents:

 

[kingsway]

what do you make of it?

Not relevant without context.

 

[Socrates]

Someone posted the long explanation by the person with the sister who was a Chinese reporter who had spoken with the coroner...In that post, I'm pretty sure he said that the coroner said there had been nothing found in her "lower regions" to suggest rape:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #4

Thanks AC. I'm not sure how much to rely on a report by someone who might be the sister of a Chinese reporter who talked to the coroner, though. That's a little far removed form the real source.

Still, one would think that if she had been violently raped, the coroner would be able to tell that, and would have reported it...

But it's possible that she was drugged, in which case she didn't offer much resistance. That's my theory, especially given her strange behavior in the elevator, though there just isn't enough evidence to be sure.

Whatever happened, I hope the girl had a painless death. The whole thing is very sad.

 

[houndstooth]

Here are some reviews (obviously only the bad ones; others were positive) mentioning water issues. Other reviews mention foul smells in the hotel. All the reviews posted here are from before January 2013 (mainly 2011-2012). (More than one on Yelp mentions poo in the hallway. Eek!) I travel a lot and sometimes stay in sketchy areas, so I take reviews with a grain of salt, but I think the comments here are interesting in light of Elisa's case.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g32655-d276208-Reviews-Cecil_Hotel-Los_Angeles_California.html

There was a nasty looking rusty sink in one corner with awful smelling water…

The rooms are very basic, with dated furnishings and bars on the window. It was also evident that a previous stayer had mistaken the wardrobe for a toilet! The shared showers were also poor, with the tap coming off in my hand and brown water trickling out to begin with...

The staff was friendly all the time and they really try to get better. Hallways were painted for example while I was there. (Interesting about the paint—no idea if it was repainted a different color; this is from October 2012.)

Hot water is the only issue we had.. it took 10 minutes to get it up to us on the 14th floor. Fortunately it was hot which meant a coolish shower was welcoming.

The elevator was s-l-o-w… At 7am, I wanted to use the free internet (probably the only good thing the hotel had to offer) however the doors to get out into the main lobby did not open till 8am. And....the hot water did not work!

Best choice for youngsters in downtown LA, great location, really nice staff, (mexicans mostly), and great hip atmosphere surrounds the old building. [Not to get on the “aggressive Mexican” thing, but EL did mention them in general on her Tumblr.]

There are 15 floors and the elevator takes a long time in the morning as it stops on every floor. [Randomly interesting about elevator speed]

[This person mentions the vents in the showers, as well as this interesting tidbit about an employee talking about the hotel being “haunted”]: But upon checking out, I asked the guy working if the hotel was haunted. He had a look on his face as if we were already supposed to know, & said so casually, YES. We started laughing because we thought he was joking around, but I asked why? He says, "Well this hotel has been around since the 1920's & there have been murders & suicides throughout the years.."

[About Cecil residents being able to get into Stay]: While Stay rents a few floors and all in all isn't a bad hostel choice, it shares stairways and elevators with the Cecil and the occupants of the Cecil are FAR from the cheerful international travel bunch that frequent hotels. There is nothing to keep the unsavory occupants of the Cecil from going onto a STAY floor.

Employees are very(!) unfriendly! if you have a problem in your room, the just say= ok, will fix it. but after 3 weeks not even a check by an plumber. [also mentions shower water coming “drop by drop”]

There always seems to be some sort of maid or handy man in the small, poorly painted elevators and that made me uneasy. Are there no service elevators. These people always seemed unhappy like they hated life… The young man at the front desk was helpful and helped me find a few things downtown. I think he was helpful because I was a young girl flirting though and not because it was his job.

So the water already looked and smelled pretty bad. There was low water pressure. So, yes, what would prompt a maintenance man to allegedly look into this? Also found the review interesting about the hot water taking 10 minutes to go UP[/B to the 14th floor. So the water supposedly was pumped onto the roof into holding tanks, then pumped down to the basement to the water heater then back up to the upper floors?

I rather doubt this. I think the tanks were defunct and a thing of the past too expensive to have removed and just left there with a small amount of that icky dark, oily brown water remnants as shown in the photos.

The waterworks probably were city pipes into the basement where the water heaters and laundry were most likely located. Someone back a few pages responded to one of my posts by saying maybe the bottom sludge was stirred up. Well, if these were in use, there wouldn't be any bottom sludge as the tanks would be gravity fed into hotel pipes and more than likely have a pool drain/tub like drain over the coupling where it attached!
Thereby preventing any clothing that was speculated to have blocked it.

From my reading here about security cameras and alleged lack thereof, as well as the reports of the condition of the water have successfully countermanded their very rationale for having found this person in roughly 8 feet of tea-colored or worse water.

What is the name of this maintenance man? Has it been given? I'll bet it hasn't. Not because I am suspicious of him having commited any crime, though.

 

[ineedcoffee]

Like others, the conflicting information is bugging the crap out of me. One of them, especially, has to do with possible suspects:

According to LAPD video I posted most recently in media thread, LAPD are focusing on one employee

Smith denied the rumour that a hotel staff was listed as a suspect, saying the police has not yet implicated anyone. They will wait for the final report from forensic experts.

So, which is it? Are they retracting it because they don't want to rule out accident or suicide? Are they just not talking to each other which makes different information come out?

I don't know. FWIW, I still think she was a victim of foul play. And the killer is a hotel employee, security, or long term resident.

Maybe LAPD thinks the perp is closely following the case, so they want him to think he may have gotten away with it so that they can track him better. I have seen that happen in some other cases.

 

[Peace777]

Looks like it's showing a watch or something she wore? I dunno. What do you see/think?

I see someone wearing a dark cape with a hood on and the purple of like the jacket Elisa is wearing in the right hand pic. When, where, why it was taken is anyone's guess tho and how did the person making the video get a hold of the pic IF it is Elisa taking a pic of herself on her phone?

 

[Peace777]

Not relevant without context.

It could be relevant if the pic isn't of Elisa but someone is wearing her clothes that's IF the police haven't found them and to see where this pic is taken is it in The Cecil Hotel? I think it could be a BIG clue Also the type of phone that is being used etc etc Why would someone be playing a sick joke by posting that pic in a video??

 

[jennydreadful]

I'm leaning more and more towards it being a suicide. The queued up tumblr posts seem to be the biggest statement. You only do that if you know you won't be making any more posts, her earlier blogs never ending discussion of depression, then the video. I've come to think the video is nothing more than a young lady at odds with herself in her finals hours.

I'm not done digging yet but I think I'll refocus on things that will break down my current views instead of supporting them

I can understand why someone who doesn't use Tumblr would think that, but it's actually really, really normal to queue tons of posts there. I tried to explain why in this post:
[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8958505&postcount=445"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #4[/ame]

The dark content is also very common on Tumblr--many (maybe even most) people there are offbeat arty people--indie and hipster kids, goths, punks, etc. I'd put EL in the indie kid category (and she said she was a punk in high school). We see beauty in darkness and in odd things, you know? If you look at the Tumblrs that EL reblogged her dark-ish posts from, you'll see that they post it often as well. My Tumblr is darker than EL's, and if I were murdered people could easily think my death were related, but in reality I just think it's beautiful.

I'm not putting you down at all, btw--I understand why people wouldn't necessarily understand.

 

[houndstooth]

IMHO, I think we're relying too much an internet account that may or may not be hacked. I've thought this since that Tarot card post. Perhaps it's just another internet troll getting a thrill??? Just throwing it out there.:twocents:

I am inclined to agree with you. It seems almost like it is hacked and is intended to to paint her as a mental case, morose or suicidal.

It's to the point you half expect the next one will be the Grim Reaper complete with scythe.

 

[ineedcoffee]

what do you make of it?

Is this a picture Elisa took of herself inside of the hotel since she is seemingly wearing the same purple/red hoodie in the video? The black hoodie she has on looks much too large for her, maybe indicating it is a man's hoodie (someone she was meeting in CA who was also at the hostle?)

 

[kunibob]

I see someone wearing a dark cape with a hood on and the purple of like the jacket Elisa is wearing in the right hand pic. When, where, why it was taken is anyone's guess tho and how did the person making the video get a hold of the pic IF it is Elisa taking a pic of herself on her phone?

I can't view the pic on my phone for some reason, but if it's the one I'm thining of: it is Elisa, from a pic she took while in Ontario.

http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/37526769464/this-is-usually-how-i-look-when-i-walk-at-night

Sorry that wasn't the photo you meant. :3

 

[noodled1]

I'm not putting you down at all, btw--I understand why people wouldn't necessarily understand.

Snipped.


I never thought you were... And I do understand what you're saying

 

[Peace777]

I can't view the pic on my phone for some reason, but if it's the one I'm thining of: it is Elisa, from a pic she took while in Ontario.

http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/37526769464/this-is-usually-how-i-look-when-i-walk-at-night

Sorry that wasn't the photo you meant. :3

Oh ok yes that is the pic being used in the video Thx

 

[four_seasons]

I just saw that, too. Is that supposed to be Elisa on her trip? Can anyone read Chinese?

can you post the link again? sorry, can't seem to find the link.

 

[Sillybilly]

Don't know what happened to your quote Xavier, but it wasn't me who made the claim .. it was me who was asking where the info came from wrt LAPD saying that.

Please provide some link where LA PD feels Elisa was placed in the cistern around Feb 14-16 due to her small amount of her body de-comp

Elisa and her parents were said to talk daily while she was in LA, then the calls stopped on Jan 31, the day of her disappearance

It's unverified to me, but if this rumored report says LA PD has a time of death around Feb 14-16, then she was alive between Jan31-Feb16. Where was she is the $64,000 question?

So for about 15 days she was somewhere? Was it a guest room? Was she in an unused, out of the way facilities room? Was she drugged up? It's the Cecil hotel in LA, it has a shady, freaky past and present, anything's possible there