CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #5

[findinganatta]

I work in the mental health profession and Elisa's actions in the elevator, especially her hand motions, are exactly the type of behavior i witness schizophrenics and people suffering mental breakdowns to have. Thats what originally got me interested in the case, I am fairly positive she is suffering from some sort of psychological break with reality in the video.

People seem to have the opinion that a mental illness is somehow shameful, and its disrespectful to Elisa to consider her having one. Its not. The stigma around mental illness is a real problem in this country and it needs to stop.

:moo::moo::moo: (excessive speculation ahead)

I wouldn't say I'm as positive as you that she is experiencing psychosis, but I absolutely agree with you about the hand movements. In fact, that is the single part of the video (from the 'smiling' and hand movements through the part where she grasps her hands together and seems to be talking to someone) that absolutely reeks of psychosis to me... however, I think drugs would be just as likely an explanation as schizophrenia.

I am typically annoyed by the sensationalism associated with 'bath salts', but there are some aspects about their effects that fit extremely well with this situation. I'm not suggesting that EL would have taken such a f'd up drug knowingly; she could have somehow been dosed with them, told she was using something else, or simply not known much about them and decided to try. Despite the stupid sensationalism (ie. the Florida 'zombie', whose toxicology tests showed was not using bath salts despite the rampant reports), bath salt users can and do act in extremely disturbing ways. They can totally break with reality; lose all regard for logic, mortality, and danger; and they very frequently remove their clothing (and can be attracted to water) due to intense overheating. Those are some of the most common of the more bizarre bath salt behavior.

Even more interestingly, users frequently climb up or into various structures--buildings, billboards, bridges, etc. All of this goes along with how EL's was found, but I am in no way saying that she got there because of drug use. I'm simply pointing out possibilities. As some of you know, that Austin girl used bath salts and died after becoming trapped in the ventilation duct of a building after she crawled in to find her friend who was multiple floors below. That is the degree of insanity that can accompany this stuff, which I believe is still legal to buy in convenience stores in LA, especially lower-end stores in scary areas.

Given her age, history with depression, and some of the specific things she says on her Tumblr, schizophrenia also seems like just as likely a possibility. However, schizophrenia seems less likely to make someone do something like this to themselves.

I'm just mentally mas****ating, like many of us are, and I apologize to anyone who is totally annoyed by that. It's just that I have this haunting feeling that all of the murder speculation has been completely off. I'm starting to expect that authorities will announce that no foul play was involved, which is much creepier to me for some reason. But deep down I hope that happens, because it will mean there isn't a murderer on the loose, and it also that EL didn't have to suffer through any horrible things at the hands of a killer.

Ok, I'm done with speculation unless some kind of actual new information comes along :|

 

[kingsway]

I haven't read anything about the occupancy rate, but if this is the case then perhaps the unsub was a resident who knew he pretty well had the floor to himself and used this to his advantage? Saw an opportunity and took it? This could also play into the staff member theory as staff would know if a floor was vacant.

Possibly. This isn't the article I read before, but it says pretty much the same thing:

http://jennaivy.hubpages.com/hub/Mu...tel-Raises-Concerns-for-Women-Traveling-Alone

But it's not the location or history that seems to be the most leery trait of this hotel. Instead, it's the surprisingly high vacancy rate. After the discovery of Lam's body, guests staying in 27 rooms opted to be moved to another hotel while another 11 opted to stay and drink bottled water while the hotel's water is being tested. That indicates that only 38 rooms were rented out at the time, while The Cecil Hotel contains a total of 600 rooms. That means there were 562 vacant rooms and probably indicates more than a few vacant floors since guests are usually grouped together to make housekeeping rounds more efficient.

Imagine if she did scream, and no one was around to hear?

 

[TheRoger]

Hello people - semantics. Since the huge round top of the tank, the 'lid' you are talking about is undoubtedly welded solid to the tank it is not removable and part of the tank so the only possible 'lid' anyone can be speaking of is the square hatch/lid/manhole.

 

[TheRoger]

Kings way- I have also read that there are 50 to 100 long term residents.

 

[Borris]

Often times you can hear a lot of hallway noise in hotels and doubt if the Cecil beefed up on soundproofing. Maybe a resident heard her going by and looked through the peephole then pursued her to the elevator?

I thought about this as well, but I read the occupancy rate of Cecil was roughly 10%, possibly concentrated on the lower floors. (Stay Hotel, the trendy renovated part)

So they would have to find out who was on the upper floors at the time of her disappearance. The hardest part to decipher is how she got subdued without alerting anyone. Maybe there were only 1 or 2 occupants nearby and they didn't hear her screams, or chose to disregard them. Or she was drugged, or subdued quietly.

I've actually been trying to work that into my schedule next week. I have to be in downtown. I'll have to figure out exactly where i need to go first to limit office hopping and to avoid going broke on parking...lol

Try the city engineering department for a start. The name of the architect is Loy Lester Smith.

 

[MesaVerde]

Most buildings in Hong Kong don't even have a 4th or 14th or even 24th floor etc...because the word for 4 in cantonese sounds like death...bad luck

Spooky

It is the same in Japanese for the same reasons. At least for the number 4. never heard of it for the number 14 in Japanese because they tend to say it juu yon (which doesn't include the sound 'shi' which is one of the names for death) instead of shi, which means both death and four. It is sort of a silly superstition for me. It is just because the Chinese reading for one of the kanji for death sounds like shi and the Chinese reading for the kanji for 4 also sounds like shi.

In Japan, you never give a gift in the amount of 4 because of this. So like if you brought somebody a box with a sample of cheeses inside of it, you would never have it be four types of cheeses.

They also don't wear their kimonos or yukatas right over left because that is how a corpse wears their funeral clothing. You never stick your chopsticks upright in your ricebowl when you are pausing while eating because that is how they are put in the ceremonial rice for dead people. You never pass food from your chopsticks to another persons because that is done at a funeral.

But the stuff with the number four is definitely an import from China because the original Japanese name for four was 'yon'. 'Shi' was imported from China. The Japanese use both names at different times or in different word compounds.

 

[Xavier]

Elisa Lam, a UBC student, was last seen by the staff at the Cecil Hotel in downtown Los Angeles on Jan. 31.

<modsnip>

Ristea remembers Lam as being level-headed, someone who didn't drink or smoke.

<modsnip>

Ristea says Lam was in California as a tourist and had been posting photos on Facebook from the San Diego Zoo and the Conan O'Brien Show.

The Cecil Hotel, downtown L.A.Investigators say Lam was in contact with her family on a daily basis and last made contact on Jan. 31.



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/02/08/bc-missing-elisa-lam.html

 

[MesaVerde]

It doesn't look like she's wearing the right shoes to go to the roof either, unless she didn't assess the safety of climbing a ladder without proper shoes.

When the weather is warm, I often wear flip flops to climb a ladder two stories to get leaves out of our gutters.

 

[MesaVerde]

I had been thinking it was the reason she was wearing a sweater in Los Angeles, but not bringing a purse. She had been planning on going outside at night, but not actually leaving the Hotel.

There is another possible explanation for that. I would do the same thing. Buildings like hotels often overuse air conditioning. If she was sensitive to cold, like me, then she would do that to keep her arms warm.

I also have to wear a sweater or little jacket when people have fans or AC going. We don't have AC in our house. In the summer my boyfriend gets hot so he turns on the overhead fan that spins around. The moving air totally freezes me so I always have to wear a sweater if I am down there watching tv with him.

When I stay at a hotel, I usually have to take a sweater with me if I am going to use the computer room or anything because air conditioning bothers me so much and hotels use a lot of it.

 

[princessofmirth]

I've actually been trying to work that into my schedule next week. I have to be in downtown. I'll have to figure out exactly where i need to go first to limit office hopping and to avoid going broke on parking...lol

I was wondering if a few of us LA websleuths could get together and do some more research. The more eyes, the better!:fence:

 

[MesaVerde]

An average guy couldn't carry a 115 lb limp body up a 12 ft vertical ladder.

It's not just the weight. It's also the bulk of the body on your shoulder, between you and the ladder, and the limited use of the hand steadying the body.

But if people want to keep pushing the viability of that scenario, go ahead, do your own video.

I think a guy could carry 115 up an A-frame ladder. And I think there would be other ways to get a body up a vertical ladder for a motivated person.

You want to keep pushing the vertical ladder because you want to push your point. The ladder on the water tank was not vertical.

We already saw in the video that a guy could get part way up an A-frame. We don't know how strong or how motivated a killer was. I have done some pretty difficult things when I was very motivated.

 

[MesaVerde]

Oh ya? Well my dead uncle could swing a mountain lion around his head while he was walking to school in his bare feet through the snows of the Rocky Mountains.

You assume that one person's limitations are always defined by what most people are physically capable of. There are ranges of what is possible among human beings. I wouldn't go as far as to assume for certain what no person could do if it is anywhere close to what is possible.

<modsnip>

 

[Godsdog]

I was wondering if a few of us LA websleuths could get together and do some more research. The more eyes, the better!:fence:

I've been saying the same thing. I'm leaving town on Monday for the rest of the month but I'll be around in the first week of April, and if the only time we could do it were this week I could make myself available.

I think a group of five would work. Or six, so we could enter in pairs without attracting too much attention. (There's no way I'm going back into that building alone after my one brief foray).

 

[princessofmirth]

Would you be interested in a group visit to the Cecil in the first week of April?

Yes. Anyone that's interested, PM me. But use common sense and be careful! We don't want to put anyone in danger.

 

[Qrious]

While the possibility of a connection between the two deaths (EL and Newport Beach girl) is unlikely, I did see the following update

"The cause of death was being withheld pending the results of toxicology tests."
http://www.swrnn.com/2013/03/06/newport-beach-death-of-woman-found-on-beach-called-suspicious/

Since autopsy was apparently performed yesterday on NB girl, I'm assuming the results are inconclusive (I read somewhere there were no obvious signs of external trauma.)

For another thread, I'm sure, but some other group of folks will be waiting for toxicology test results now.

It is getting really interesting. I can't wait for her name to be revealed.

 

[Qrious]

I doubt it was 100's of hours of Elisa - it was 100s of hours of surveillance video. First thing they did was probably examine all video on the days surrounding her disappearance. AFAIK, there are at least 3 cameras - lobby, and 2 elevators (probably more). So 24 * 3 * 10 (5 days before, 5 days after) = 720. Less if the cameras are motion-activated, or get rolled over after a certain period.

They must have known she was still in the hotel, or smuggled out.

To clarify further, the LAPD spokesman said "close to 100 hours", not 100s of hours (correct me if I heard wrongly). Close to 100 hours is not much video if there were 4 cameras, accounting for just 25 hours each camera, just slightly over a day's worth of footage.

 

[Sillybilly]

I hesitate in answering this because the glasses seem to be a point of contention for some. This statement is from CBS local LA the day the video was released:

According to the Facebook page “Find Elisa Lam,” the Vancouver native does not have her glasses with her.


My understanding is that she did not have her glasses with her on this trip. Period. Meaning they were likely home (conjecture on my part).

Most others see it as she did not have them when she was last seen though I don't know why they just would not be more direct and say as much to the public as this sends message she may or may not be wearing her glasses.

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/02/13/lapd-hoping-new-video-will-lead-to-missing-canadian-woman/

Oh, several here also find the source suspect; I see it as it may help given what little "official" info has been released.

Catching up, so apologies if this has been discussed further.

We don't know where/when the pic of Elisa wearing her plaid hoodie was taken, but she is wearing her glasses. Someone commented earlier that it appeared a person behind her was wearing a gas mask, and although the background is blurred, it does look like it could be. I suppose this could be any location from her travels, but IMO it smacks more of California style than other cities she visited (Toronto or Ottawa).

 

[Sillybilly]

was it dead?

No, but he was :floorlaugh:

 

[walklikeacat]

Possibly. This isn't the article I read before, but it says pretty much the same thing:

http://jennaivy.hubpages.com/hub/Mu...tel-Raises-Concerns-for-Women-Traveling-Alone



Imagine if she did scream, and no one was around to hear?

There are 809 persons living at this address - 640 S Main Street, LA - with an average age of 59 years. But I can´t imagine that all these people have their accomodation at Cecil Hotel...or? So, how to find out who actually lives in a long-time accomodation under an address at this hotel? I did my search at Spokeo.com

 

[MesaVerde]

Someone commented earlier that it appeared a person behind her was wearing a gas mask, and although the background is blurred, it does look like it could be.

That is probably just Lady Gaga in her walking clothes or maybe a mountain lion eating somebody. In all seriousness, doesn't really look like a gas mask to me. Just looks like a blurry person back there. But I like the imagination!