CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #5

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I made this same exact comment to my boyfriend. He disagreed with me and said he thought the roof was high enough in altitude for the winds to blow clothes and shoes off of the roof. I don't know. I wouldn't think so but I really don't know.

We were on top of the eiffel tower. Clothes and shoes would definitely blow off of there if there wasn't the wire cage. But the eiffel tower is like 100 stories in the air or something. The hotel is only 14.

I said I thought that maybe they could blow off of the top of the water tank but that I thought that if clothes were left on the floor of the roof then they would be caught by the little wall even if there was wind strong enough to blow them around. But he said he thought they would blow over that, too. I just don't know. Anybody know what the wind is like 14 floors up?

Bolded sounds more than reasonable, if she was indeed found naked and if indeed the police do not have her clothes

So if we assume she was naked and the LAPD does not have her clothes then it would totally depend on where she left the clothes, if she left them on the roof top they would still be there, the wall around the roof is high enough to keep anything with weight there, they might get blown into a corner but they'd still be there.

If she left them on top of the tank they could have been blown off down to the street below.
 
She did not drink at all according to her friends that have been making comments. But of course - as you describing half a glass - she could have some in a social way.

Not necessarily accurate. On her Tumblr Elisa wrote about how she once got in a drunk fight with one of her best friends when said friend stood her up on her 19th birthday. In her words: "I was furious and since inebriated, I was very emotional and broke down in tears, physically preventing her from leaving."

Source: http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/12123966550/20
 
I am thinking about what happen those first five days and I believe that it went totally wrong. LAPD was first notified of Elisa Lam´s disappearence by Interpol...who had been contacted by the RCMP. LAPD got involved in Tuesday February 5 following a call from the RCMP. I believe that RCMP don´t have an legal right to investigate crimes in another country (correct me if I am wrong) so what did Interpol do during these first five days? I guess Elisa´s parents had contact with Cecil Hotel at February 1 but no one knows when they made an contact with RCMP.

And on 5th and 6th of February, did the LAPD questioning and taking DNA samples from Hotel service -people who were working during the time of her disappearence? Maybe not.

I don´t know if these articles have been showed:
(myfox9.com February 16 - Patrick OBrien, digital director))
http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/21221923/canadian-girl-with-big-smile-has-disappeared
"She also left everything behind - her ID, money, cell phone and computer".

(KTLA5 News February 6 - Sara Welch, KTLA 5 Reporter)
http://ktla.com/2013/02/06/canadian...iting-socal-sara-welch-reports/#axzz2MgPCQSux
"On January 28th after a visit to San Diego, Lam checked into an upscale youth hostel - part of the Cecil Hotel on Main Street in downtown LA. According to the hotel manager the woman was booked for four nights". Detectives say the woman traveling by bus and train.
 
- I also contemplated why the water tank?...( If she was murdered by a employee?..why not move the body away from the hotel and hide it/bury it/put it in the ocean?)

- One reason i thought of was the surveillance camera's in the elevator.We know for sure that there are camera's in the elevators...( do they also have camera's at the first floor entry?...exit?...doors)

- IF....The only way for the perp to get the body to the 1rst floor would be by elevator then the perp would be on video with the body ( If the perp was not a cleaning person....then the perp would look very suspicious with a large garbage can/case)

- Many video recorders save up to 2 weeks of video.( you can go back and look at 2 weeks from the present day....hope that made sense)


- Perp was forced to use the tank to hide the body and hope police presence would die down.

As I pointed out in my profile notes in thread#2 (and I have no idea how to find that post in the chaos), the only reason to assume, it was an employee is access to the roof. Only we know in the meantime, access to the roof is NOT limited to employees. And people who work in a hotel usually live in the same city and area as the hotel is. Means, they know the area, they have more knowledge where to hide a body. A tourist on the other hand has not so many options. As I wrote back then, I suspect one of the other travelers. Because he would have to chose what he has available, he would have no car available (easy to bring a car in the wee hours of the night to the back exit, but you can't just take a bus or tram carrying a dead body. People would may react a little unfriendly), he would have access to the used water system via a toilet in his room in fifth or sixth floor.
 
I made this same exact comment to my boyfriend. He disagreed with me and said he thought the roof was high enough in altitude for the winds to blow clothes and shoes off of the roof. I don't know. I wouldn't think so but I really don't know.

We were on top of the eiffel tower. Clothes and shoes would definitely blow off of there if there wasn't the wire cage. But the eiffel tower is like 100 stories in the air or something. The hotel is only 14.

I said I thought that maybe they could blow off of the top of the water tank but that I thought that if clothes were left on the floor of the roof then they would be caught by the little wall even if there was wind strong enough to blow them around. But he said he thought they would blow over that, too. I just don't know. Anybody know what the wind is like 14 floors up?

I recall a high wind advisory being issued here in early January and then again about a week ago. Don't recall any major winds or storms between 2/1-2/6 though. It does get very windy here and it would be possible to have the clothes swept off the roof when that happens.

The link below gives a little bit of info but mainly talks about a terrace on a higher floor. I would imagine a rooftop, being exposed from all directions, would be windier. If you take a look at the news coverage from the roof or the Chinese investigator video that should give you some idea also.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/10/science/10qna.html

I posted a link yesterday in regard to elevator surfing. It was very interesting. I doubt that was what was used to transport the body and we don't know for certain that the Cecil has the same layout for maintenance to the elevators. It seems as though a small grate is accessible from a maintenance room via the roof in this video. Not putting a lot of weight Into this happening but I'm wondering if they searched the top of the elevator for her clothing. Just popped in my head that maybe a person might dispose of clothing this way. Doubtful but hey I'm open to anything within reason at this point.

http://gene.greger-weltin.org/elevator_surfing/
 
I made this same exact comment to my boyfriend. He disagreed with me and said he thought the roof was high enough in altitude for the winds to blow clothes and shoes off of the roof. I don't know. I wouldn't think so but I really don't know.

We were on top of the eiffel tower. Clothes and shoes would definitely blow off of there if there wasn't the wire cage. But the eiffel tower is like 100 stories in the air or something. The hotel is only 14.

I said I thought that maybe they could blow off of the top of the water tank but that I thought that if clothes were left on the floor of the roof then they would be caught by the little wall even if there was wind strong enough to blow them around. But he said he thought they would blow over that, too. I just don't know. Anybody know what the wind is like 14 floors up?

I was on the Eiffel Tower several times in my life (I lived about 450 km away from Paris for many years). There are such and such days. However, things are a bit different on the side of physics. The cage isn't an obstacle for wind, it's basically all open. On a roof, with water tanks, this little structure behind them (elevator house) and that little wall, all those obstacles are creating pockets. Anything, that is next to them can't be taken by the wind as long as wind speed is too low to create suction (here we talk almost Sandy speeds). Even more, while a T-shirt has more surface than weight, jewelry and cell phones have more weight than surface and are therefore hard for the wind to move. There is some interesting math used in ship construction to estimate mixed influences of wind and current on a ship's hull, that maybe can be applied here (but I admit, I would have to look up the formulas), if there is need.
 
I find it odd that no one has seen her. Someone should come forward who have stayed in the same hostel, somebody which had given her that blanket so she could oversleep in the airport terminus. Many more must have seen her at the Cecil Hotel but no one comes forward in the media. That is odd. This thread needs a real real brake through or do we all need to wait for that second autopsy? What if the answer is negative....we should need a Private Investigator. I wonder if her family have had such thoughts, someone working parallel to all involved. My feelings is that I have doubts in LAPD:s investigations at Cecil Hotel, if they are thorough and meticulus in the most precise approach. That they have comgplete control about everything and everyone at Cecil Hotel. I have doubts.
I've had the same problem researching the hotel's past. For example, the person that was found strangled in 2003- there's no mention of the individuals name or motive, and yet it was a homicide!
It has been so difficult to find any history of the Cecil, from financial files to ownership! What's going on?
 
Okay. I may or may not cross a line here, so if I do then I am sure Summer Breeze or Bessie will let me know.

This case has little to go on. What we do have is a lot of "way in left field" theories, and a few sound ones. The video is the only sure thing we have access to (ad nauseum) aside from pictures. Whether the mental health professionals are stating that she is showing signs of a mental break or not, they are putting their opinion for you to take. By blindly looking past it, or refuting it based on a criteria list makes absolutely no sense to me.

Now it could very well be murder. Doesn't mean that she wasn't having issues in that video. <modnsip>

As for bias, if that is what they are seeing, then why would it be? I have posted my own opinions on matters based on professional experience, only to have people with no experience try to tell me otherwise.

Edit: And what are you leaning to in terms of theory?

<modnsip>

But since you brought it up, I'll give you my take on her analysis:

IMHO her behaviour is that of someone experiencing psychosis.

1. The "holiday" alone with no fixed plans
No fixed plans? She planned specific dates for different cities. As for local plans, we don't know about that, but she went to touristy places like the San Diego Zoo and Conan O'Brien show. Also, many people don't have fixed plans when they travel, especially when you are young.

2. History of depression - more severe mental illnesses like Schizophrenia can often first present as depression. The stress of school could have brought this on.
This doesn't mean much. Yes, Schizophrenia can often first present itself as depression, but that doesn't mean that people who are depressed are likely to develop Schizophrenia. Even if 100% of people with Schizophrenia patients had depression previously, it wouldn't tell us if 0.00001% of people who are depressed develop Schizophrenia. "The stress of school" is pure speculation.

3. Her behaviour in the elevator looks to me like someone experiencing paranoid ideation and possibly command hallucinations (voices telling her to do something like press all the buttons). The hiding and peeking out the door is a response to the paranoid thoughts that "someone is out to get her"
4. The wild gesticulating in the corridor to seemingly nobody is a response to internal stimuli - (voices in her head).
These are pretty much the same point. Her behavior is unknown at this point. You can say that people who are experiencing psychosis often display this behavior, but that doesn't mean people who are normal don't exhibit this behavior under certain conditions. Again, why did she wait for the elevator to close? If she was intent on going down in the video, why go up to the roof?

It's more likely that she was peeking out the door to see if anyone was holding it open. You can even argue that hiding in the corner may not have been hiding at all, that it was to get a good angle to see if someone was pressing the button outside.

5. She probably hid in the water tank to escape her perceived threat. People experiencing psychosis do not make rational plans.
Speculation. Also, "probably" is a strong word. Why didn't she hide in her room? Her closet? In the bathroom? Go to the lobby? A water tank on the roof is not something people, sane or insane, would think of. How did she even know they were accessible? If the water tank was two feet away from the elevator, it would be more plausible.

We're talking about probabilities here. Almost everything is possible, but her going crazy and putting herself in a water tank is highly unlikely, without further evidence. So is your theory on "sex games gone wrong". Now, if she was experiencing psychosis, it would be more plausible that someone took advantage of her in her mental state, than to assume that her death was a direct result.

I already posted one theory on how her behavior in the elevator could be explained, at the beginning of this thread. Feel free to rip it apart, I actually would encourage it.
 
Hi everyone! Newbie here!
First, let me say that I am so glad I found this forum! I saw the Elisa Lam video on You Tube and became intrigued by the case.
Still trying to catch up on all the posts here, so bear with me...
A few things I was wondering about:
1. Has this case gotten any PR beyond local outlets/YouTube? I had not heard of this case, and live in the suburb of a large US city. Has Nancy Grace or TruTV profiled the case at all?

2. Have there been any psychics consulted in the case to anyone's knowledge? I would be curious to see if so, what they had to say about it.

3. My opinion on the video is that it really is eerie. My gut instinct is that her strange (imho) behavior is either the result of a "drug" of some sort (medication, alcohol, illegal substance) or a psychotic episode and not just normal, "playful" behavior.

I am interested to see how this case pans out, especially the toxicology report.
 
As I pointed out in my profile notes in thread#2 (and I have no idea how to find that post in the chaos), the only reason to assume, it was an employee is access to the roof. Only we know in the meantime, access to the roof is NOT limited to employees. And people who work in a hotel usually live in the same city and area as the hotel is. Means, they know the area, they have more knowledge where to hide a body. A tourist on the other hand has not so many options. As I wrote back then, I suspect one of the other travelers. Because he would have to chose what he has available, he would have no car available (easy to bring a car in the wee hours of the night to the back exit, but you can't just take a bus or tram carrying a dead body. People would may react a little unfriendly), he would have access to the used water system via a toilet in his room in fifth or sixth floor.

Great points!...

and it does look like a ladder may have been always next to the tanks...and the tank door was not locked.

( one of the reasons I thought it was an employee at first was because .....they would need a step ladder to get to the tank door...and know how to unlatch the tank door)

Just like Kristen Smart or Natalie Hollaway....maybe a chance encounter with a Traveler was her fate.(both were intoxicated/drugged also)
 
Great points!...

and it does look like a ladder may have been always next to the tanks...and the tank door was not locked.

( one of the reasons I thought it was an employee at first was because .....they would need a step ladder to get to the tank door...and know how to unlatch the tank door)

Just like Kristen Smart or Natalie Hollaway....maybe a chance encounter with a Traveler was her fate.(both were intoxicated/drugged also)

Also, a person without knowledge of the water tanks would need to scout around first, before taking the risk of transporting a body.
 
Seriously...what's up with that??

They should be able to have everything done in a week or two

It's a complicated process and there's limited places in the US that can do it.

It's not the only case they're working on

Edit: here's an article discussing Tox Reports

"Some of the tests take days, weeks, months," says Alan Hall, MD, a board-certified toxicologist and consultant in Laramie, Wyo. The final toxicology report, he says, draws not only from multiple test results and confirmation of the results, but also on the clinical experience of the toxicologists and pathologists involved in the investigation, as well as field work.

Quite a bit more here
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/alcohol-abuse/features/the-truth-about-toxicology-tests
 
Last night I took a couple of hours to go through online reviews of the Hotel Cecil and Stay on Main, going to Yelp, Hotels.com and Expedia. I composed a long post with quote after quote detailing observations and experiences of the place(s) but the post was deleted as apparently I broke a rule by using long quotes. Fair enough, I accept full responsibility as I was lax at studying the rules. I'm going to try and summarize that post from memory now.

1. Stay on Main has its own access to the elevators.

One reviewer described that Stay on Main has a staircase to the Mezzanine level and access to the elevators there. Stay on Main also locks its doors after midnight and their guests then have to use the Cecil entrance to gain access to their rooms.

This results in an additional lack of security. One man said he was denied entry into Stay on Main and then went around the corner to the Cecil and was able to gain access to his friend's room and stay there in that manner.

Another funny entry stated that they found the Hotel Cecil deplorable so they went next store to the Stay on Main and got a room, finding it very satisfying. This person evidently neglected to realize that the two were in the same building, and that they were using the same elevator.

2. Numerous accounts of staying on the 14th and 15th floors.


One person noted that the 14th floor had no sinks on that floor and that they had to brush their teeth by using the shower.

3. Very rude and unhelpful staff.


There were numerous accounts of both locations losing reservations, issuing the wrong type of room to people checking in, and sending people to rooms that hadn't been cleaned from the previous occupant.

4. Unhelpful and threatening Security

There were a few accounts of the Security at the hotel being unhelpful, with one person saying that the Security Officer threatened him with a "beat down" if he wasn't staying in the room that he said he was going to.

5. Thin walls

Numerous accounts of hearing everything in other rooms and in the halls, including cursing, yelling, loud conversations, people using the bathroom, doors slamming, etc. (Relevant in regards to the theories that EL may have been kept alive for some time in the hotel).

6. Lack of safety

Numerous accounts of people using drugs in the hallways, bathrooms and elevator. One account of a door to a Stay on Main dormitory looking as if it had been kicked in in the past and not repaired. One account of a door that wouldn't close and lock properly. Various accounts of doors with from three to six locks on them.

There was a disturbing account of an open window (could not be locked or secured) to a fire escape that led directly to the alley, meaning that anyone could access the hotel.

One person said they were issued a room but when they went to it the room was locked from the inside by someone within. When they returned to the room with a Security Guard the room was no longer bolted from within and no one was in the room.

7. Trouble with the elevators.

Many people reported trouble with the elevators, including broken elevators, elevators that stalled and stopped on certain floors, elevators that took far too long. One person said she was trapped in a stalled elevator for more than a half hour until she was rescued. These accounts predated EL's stay.

8. Plumbing problems.

Lots of complaints that there was no hot water, also many people noted that the water was rusty or discolored. Also many noted that the pipes were loud. These complaints predated EL's stay and disappearance.

I really hope that I haven't broken the rules again. I've tried to put things into my own words so that I'm not making direct quotes.

9. Lurkers and creepy behavior


The scariest entry was one woman's account of discovering someone spying on her through a grate as she shaved her legs.
 
Re: the psychic who thinks Indonesian restaurant workers killed Elisa Lam, the Cecil doesn't have a restaurant. And L.A. has very few Indonesian residents.

Agreed. I'm the one that posted the link to the psychic's comment. She made several other errors as well, implying that EL worked at the hotel and saying the initial attack occurred in the basement and that her abductors then took her to the roof. This would have necessitated the use of the elevator and would have been revealed (unless they were employees who had access to the elevator footage and could delete it).

I didn't post a link to the psychic's comment because I believed in her account, but because she offered a plausible explanation to how EL ended up in the tank, saying that the two men took her there, alive, and then put her into the tank headfirst. It is plausible that she could have been brought there alive and then put in the tank. As the LAPD was obsessed with Christopher Dorner at the time of their initial investigation they may have been lax in searching the roof. I believe there had been rain so perhaps they missed a trace of her previous presence, or perhaps they didn't search around the water tanks or the ladders leading to them.

It's also interesting because it correlated with another psychic's account (also with its own errors). Both said that something had been placed in her mouth.
 
guys,

i'm in a chinese group and there's someone heading over to Cecil in the next few days. Maybe we can pass a few questions for them and see if they can do some investigation there.

I'm not familiar with the person we are simply in the same group. If anyone has anything really specific, I can pass along and hope they can find the answer.

Am wondering if they can check the shower/toilet doors in the hallway to see if there is an inside lock? One of the reviews I read online about these said there was no lock inside. Hard to believe, but with the seeming lack of security in this 'hotel' who knows. Thanks!
 
I'm going to try and summarize that post from memory now.

That is a hard thing to do. You did a good job.

I remember one that you forgot because I found it by far the creepiest and most interesting of the things that had been in your post.

Do you remember that a guest said that somebody had been watching her shave her legs (in the shower?) in the shower room/bathroom through a grate in the next door shower room/bathroom. That was in your post, right?

That is really really creepy. Somebody spying on females in the shower at the hotel. Uber creepy.
 
Am wondering if they can check the shower/toilet doors in the hallway to see if there is an inside lock? One of the reviews I read online about these said there was no lock inside. Hard to believe, but with the seeming lack of security in this 'hotel' who knows. Thanks!

...And how secure the locks seemed to be. And check the showers on different floors just in case. It was her checkout day that she disappeared, right? If her regular shower was occupied, she may have gone to another. She may have done this before as well and known where she could go for a quick shower without waiting.
 
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