CA - Chelsea King (17) Rancho Bernardo (north San Diego County) #1

[socalsuz]

To all my fellow San Diegans- and especially to my north county sisters and brothers, you show that our big county is really just a collection of small communities who stick together!!!!!! Hearts go out to you in RB and Poway. Everyone cares!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sarx]

Passionflower, they have connected him to an attack in Dec., are looking into him for the Amber Dubois case from a year ago and hopefully are looking at any others that fit this marker.

 

[Tink56]

It would be really risky on his part to carry her out especially in daylight. Was this area covered by police on Thursday night or could he have gone back that first night?

I suppose he could have used a large garbage bag or ruck sack to move her during daylight or night without too much notice early in the investigation. I do think he must have been surprised how quickly LE arrived. Hopefully that could work to Chelsea's advantage.

 

[sarx]

TB, how frequented is this area? Steady stream of hikers/joggers, a couple an hour, couple a day?

Tink, Don't know about your area, but someone in my area heads out of a park carrying a large bag over their shoulder I'm going to look twice and remember that! Though, if you it's not a much traveled area then that could be easier to get away with.

 

[Billylee]

How is the access to the lake from Superior Ready Mix where they sell "concrete blocks"?

 

[TravelingBug]

It would be really risky on his part to carry her out especially in daylight. Was this area covered by police on Thursday night or could he have gone back that first night?

Cops were swarming and helicopters were all over, so it'd have been hard - although the major focus was closer to the park itself they were still all over and that was obvious, and there were a lot of sirens for awhile, so he'd have known instantly people knew something was amiss.

That cul-de-sac, and that Legends community there (the streets of Moon Song, Sun Maiden, and High Mesa Court, and Bear Dance which sort of perpendicularly connects the three) is QUITE close knit and people very much are aware of their neighbors and what's going on and if there's a strange car parked on the street people are talking about it...so it'd be very hard for him to do anything by dinner time or later because people are too alert. And after that, although it'd be dark, with all the commotion, they'd be even more aware of anyone unusual there. And the Poblado access point is on a relatively highly traveled street - everyone going back into the west part of Westwood uses it -so that'd have been a risk.

I think she's in the water in the area...I think there's more evidence he may have tried to dispose of (or, like I said earlier, maybe something giving them cause to investigate if something having to do with Amber is over there) on the north side...because unless he did it during the earlier afternoon hours before the alert was sounded (and then that's the huge risk of daylight) I just don't see him having had a window to remove her after that.

 

[socalsuz]

Question...Did we ever confirm or deny that he was wet when they found him at The Hideaway? If true, what do you think it may signify? What a sick little puppy that he was enjoying himself while people searched for this sweet girl all around him on Sunday.

Also, wondering if the gal that thought she saw him hiking on Mount Woodson is on to something? Was he muddy from taking her there? Anyway he could have gotten her up there on Thursday night and maybe went back up on Sunday to check up on his work?

 

[sarx]

I'm thinking the same thing TB, he's dumb, but they're generally cowards and wouldn't risk it. It just looks like it's too exposed with the potential for too many people to see him carrying her out.

As far as his pants go, it would no surprise me at all if he had been one of the 1000 searchers. They can't check the id's and if he was they're not going to tell us, it'll take someone that was on a team with him coming forward to find out. I doubt seriously he was still muddy from 2 days prior.

 

[TravelingBug]

TB, how frequented is this area? Steady stream of hikers/joggers, a couple an hour, couple a day?

Tink, Don't know about your area, but someone in my area heads out of a park carrying a large bag over their shoulder I'm going to look twice and remember that! Though, if you it's not a much traveled area then that could be easier to get away with.

Oh it varies. On a nice day there are a relatively steady stream throughout the day. On a nice weekend even more than that.

It's hard to say how many exactly because there are so many different webs of trails that I'm not sure how to even begin to guess how many at a given time because some go out there and branch off one way and some another and so on, so...it all sort of depends on where you're looking.

Not sure how to answer that helpfully - also because you have those who start out from the park area, those who start from Poblado, those those who start behind the neighborhood, or Moonsong or Monticook, etc., and those who started even further west and worked their way in.

It's a complicated area - and I think really the searchers deserve a lot of credit for having worked and found anything as quickly they did in such a vast and confusing place with some difficult terrain.

 

[TravelingBug]

How is the access to the lake from Superior Ready Mix where they sell "concrete blocks"?

I had to even google to see where that was. I mean, it's close as in 12-ish miles, but...not like right here. It's much much closer to where Amber lived.

 

[socalsuz]

TB, that makes sense. He may have killed her instantly after attacking her. No witness...and then thrown her in the water.

 

[TravelingBug]

Locals - tomorrow is wear "orange" day to show solidarity for Chelsea's family and the searchers.

 

[cluciano63]

one of the scariest parts of this whole horror is that LE started looking so quickly and yet here we are...it was not soon enough apparently, i wonder if they can ever make it soon enough as by the time someone is noticed to be late coming home, the event has probably already transpired...like with poor Somer

 

[sarx]

Fair enough, though it does sound like there are enough people coming and going that he would have known that he wasn't in a completely isolated area and that would affect the risks he would take.

What is the elevation change between the lake and the streets/houses? Do any of the houses have views down into that area?

 

[TravelingBug]

Question...Did we ever confirm or deny that he was wet when they found him at The Hideaway? If true, what do you think it may signify? What a sick little puppy that he was enjoying himself while people searched for this sweet girl all around him on Sunday.

Also, wondering if the gal that thought she saw him hiking on Mount Woodson is on to something? Was he muddy from taking her there? Anyway he could have gotten her up there on Thursday night and maybe went back up on Sunday to check up on his work?

I posted earlier that the news at 4 said that he was wet and there was some mud on his pants from the knees down.

Mount Woodson is even MORE popular for hikers and climbers. If he'd been on Woodson then we'd have hundreds of reports pouring in from people who saw him. I think that person is probably mistaken. I "buy" the sightings of him near Lake Hodges - on the trails, on the north side, etc., but Woodson? This weekend? I think we'd know if he had been there because there'd be many more people saying it, and that's not at all the case.

He shouldn't have been wet from Woodson, either. Muddy a bit, maybe if he fell, but not wet with some mud, especially below the legs. That to me says having stepped in water, and that wouldn't fit with Woodson.

 

[socalsuz]

It also appears that this used Grannie's address in Lake Elsinore, but really still lived mostly down here if we are to believe the Rock Springs address and then also he frequented the fam's home on Matinal...

 

[Billylee]

I had to even google to see where that was. I mean, it's close as in 12-ish miles, but...not like right here. It's much much closer to where Amber lived.

It shows on your map as being just above where the inlet is that they're searching, just the other side of the lake. Your yellow area is darn pointing to their location. (North I'd guess it would be, as I can't seem to find a legend for direction on the google map.) Are we talking about the same place? I'm still wondering if the items could have washed to a different area, that's what took me across the lake. This guy I don't think would drag her dead body to the lake when he could have driven her someplace and dumped her off.

 

[cloudajo]

Has anyone been able to find out any details about JAG's job(s) if he worked? I think someone mentioned an automotive repair company?

Has anyone been able to find a facebook, myspace, linkedin, etc. profile for him? I haven't been able to find anything.

 

[TravelingBug]

Fair enough, though it does sound like there are enough people coming and going that he would have known that he wasn't in a completely isolated area and that would affect the risks he would take.

What is the elevation change between the lake and the streets/houses? Do any of the houses have views down into that area?

Virtually all of the homes on many of the streets there have varying. It's gorgeous - and typically very quiet. You don't often wind up there if you don't belong there because they're out of the way. And unless you know the area, most people wouldn't even know the trail access points and views beyond some of the homes.

That's why so many people love that part of Westwood. We're talking about homes on about 5 streets having those varying views of that area. They are staggered up the hillside both ways, so the elevation changes as far as the distance down.

 

[cloudajo]

I know this has been asked, but I too am wondering if they are using water search dogs...

How Water Search Dogs Work

A brief explanation of the makeup of human scent will assist in the understanding of how a dog's nose can penetrate the surface of water. Remember that human scent is composed of numerous chemicals, some produced by the human body and others applied to the body and clothing in the form of various hygiene products (soap, deodorant, shampoo, laundry detergent, etc.). While many of the hygiene products are readily water soluble, many of those produced by the body are not. A number of those are volatile oils and other substances that do not readily dissolve in water and are in fact lighter than water. When these molecules are released into the water they float to the surface. Upon contact with air they "dissolve" in the air as gaseous vapor that is carried on the wind to the dog's nose. (An analogy would be our ability to smell gasoline released into the water which floats to the surface and produces an odor we can detect. Since a dog's scenting ability is up to 100 million times more sensitive than a human's, it stands to reason that we would be unaware of what the dog is detecting.)

So in reality the dog is detecting the point at which the scent has risen to the water surface, rather than the actual underwater source of the scent. This is an important point to remember, and we will come back to it later when discussing the human part of the dog team.

Advantages of Using Dogs

With the understanding of how dogs are able to detect scent, it becomes easier to answer the question of when and how to use them in the search effort. Some other common methods of searching water include visual searches from shore, boats, bridges, and airplanes, draglines, pike poles, underwater sonar and of course divers. It must be emphasized that dogs are not a substitute for these other methods, but rather a complementary resource to improve the efficiency of any of them.
[snipped]

http://www.absarokasearchdogs.org/training/fielding_a_water_search_dog.php