CA - Child *advertiser censored* charges against John Mark Karr dismissed

[SewingDeb]

Nope you're wrong. The Thai's actually said he was never on their radar until the Americans contacted them. They arrested him only because of the info the Americans gave them (he was held for the American LE).

They did check with the school/s after they got the American info and checked out his hotel/apartment etc.
I watched a interview with some of the staff at the place where he lived. They stated that he never had anyone visit him and that he sat at the same table every night for his meal etc. He had staff clean his room everyday and they said he was very habitual (they said that was very weird).

In the same interview they talked to some mothers of the kids he taught and they said they didn't like him to much because he was so strict on the kids.
To strict for their ages. Their kids and others were talked to by the police and school staff and there was no sign that he was ever inappropriate with any of them.
They also mentioned that they checked all his computer usage (home,school etc)

~aussieblue

My understanding (and it's in a link somewhere) is that he had a thing for a five year old and had been emailing whatshisface about it. While under surveillance, he wase seen with that little girl on his lap the first day of school and, iirc, she wasn't even in his class. That's when the decision was made to bring him on in. Anybody else remember that?

 

[i.b.nora]

Judge blasts Karr's prosecutors, may dismiss charges
San Francisco Chronicle
Peter Fimrite, Chronicle Staff Writer
Monday, September 25, 2006

"(09-25) 16:40 PDT SANTA ROSA -- A Sonoma County judge handling the five-year-old child *advertiser censored* case against suspect John Mark Karr threatened today to dismiss the charges and lashed into prosecutors for not telling her that key evidence -- a computer and hard drive containing sexually explicit images -- had been lost.

Superior Court Judge Cerena Wong said she will consider a motion from Karr's attorney, Robert Amparan, to dismiss the 2001 case on Wednesday, a move that if approved would set Karr free without his having to register as a sex offender in California. Wong also will consider whether to unseal evidence in the case."

"Chief Deputy District Attorney Joan Risse said her office has printouts of 1,600 photographs from the computer, including the five that Karr is charged with having, but the original computer images are missing.

Wong castigated Risse for not informing her that the computer was lost even though she has known about it since Aug. 30. She said the sealing orders and other decisions were based on representations Risse made about continuing efforts to obtain more information from the computer.

"I'm very concerned about representations made to the court. The court made decisions based on those representations," Wong said. "I'm really not happy at all with the way this case has been going.""

 

[Camper]

JUST HOW does one exactly LOSE a computer, with *advertiser censored* on/in it?

Surely someone knows where IT is? Hey just make a movie and star Will Ferrell sp? from Elf fame, Jim Carrey from Dumb and Dumber, and that funny little fat woman on MAD TV with the black hair and bangs. Forget the plot about Karr, just FIND the MISSING COMPUTER. Great title, "The Missing Computer".

.

 

[i.b.nora]

In an Associated Press article by Marcus Wohlsen on Tuesday August 29, 2006, the writer indicates or suggests that there is a 'hint' that prosecutors might not have the computer. At the very least, the entire issue was muddy, and the writer was very astute.

Judge refuses to unseal Karr-related documents
MARCUS WOHLSEN
Associated Press

SANTA ROSA, Calif. - Sonoma County authorities said Tuesday they're currently investigating John Mark Karr and will re-examine his computer for images of child *advertiser censored*, according to a court hearing Tuesday.

A prosecutor and a lawyer for the sheriff's department called the Karr investigation "ongoing," and said deputies have asked for a new warrant to search Karr's hard drive because technology has advanced in the five years since the original probe.

It was unclear whether investigators still had Karr's computer or whether the warrant had been granted or executed.

Lawyers refused to answer questions after the hearing in Sonoma County Superior Court.

Judge Cerena Wong also refused Tuesday to unseal documents connected to Karr's arrest in Petaluma in 2001.

 

[scandi]

If the word 'Dudette' ever fit anyone perfectly, I'd have to say it is John Karr. :slap: Oh yeah, I'm being bad here LOL, but have we ever had something like this guy ever thrown in our face by the media? Nopety Nope!

So all I can say tonight is that I hope this guy is still locked up as we sit here, and of course rotting in his cell, until this whole computer mess is sorted out. I think the Feds are biding for time.


Scandi

 

[Camper]

If the word 'Dudette' ever fit anyone perfectly, I'd have to say it is John Karr. :slap: Oh yeah, I'm being bad here LOL, but have we ever had something like this guy ever thrown in our face by the media? Nopety Nope!

So all I can say tonight is that I hope this guy is still locked up as we sit here, and of course rotting in his cell, until this whole computer mess is sorted out. I think the Feds are biding for time.


Scandi

--->>>NOW Scandi, do you mean by the word 'biding'that the Feds are using highly intelligent puter agents to dig the daylights out of that puter? Sounds like a plan to me. Heaven knows just what they might find in that there 'missing' puter.

I am reminded of the torn 'guest' page from the motel register outside of Oklahoma City. THAT page had the names of the 'terrorists' that bombed the Oklahoma City, Murrah building, that has stayed at the motel. Whilst 'they' stayed at the motel, they drove the Ryder Truck that smelled so highly of FUEL, other guests COMPLAINED!! The Feds took THAT page, and dern they lost it, and NEVER found it during the trials for only two of the perps.

My source The Third Terrorist, by Jayna Davis. A very good read, by the way.

.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

The problem seems to be prosecutorial misconduct (or ineptness) rather than lack of evidence.

Legal documentation should be sufficient to establish the chain of evidence. The 5 photos that are the basis of the *advertiser censored* charges are printed out and in evidence. The prosecutor's misrepresentation to the judge may have such serious consequences that the case against Karr may be dismissed.

I don't think the feds have the computer. If it wasn't junked, it probably belongs to someone who bought it at a county auction and has no clue whether it belonged to Karr or was used in the office by some county employee.

Anyone reading even a little of what Karr has written about children can see that he's a disaster just waiting to happen to one or more children. It's a shame that he can be set free to inflict himself on innocents.

Judge Agrees To Hear Lawyer's Motion To Drop John Karr *advertiser censored* Case
Sep 26, 2006

SANTA ROSA, Calif. (AP) -- A California judge has agreed to consider a defense motion to dismiss child *advertiser censored* possession charges against John Karr, the ex-suspect in the JonBenet Ramsey murder.

Judge Cerena Wong criticized prosecutors for not telling her the computer seized from Karr in 2001 has been lost, something prosecutors have known for a month.

In fact, the prosecutor had told the judge investigators were still trying to get more information from the computer. Actually, officials believe the computer was junked when the sheriff's department moved in 2002.

That led to the judge's decision to hear the defense dismissal request on Wednesday.

The prosecution says it has 16-hundred printed photos from the computer, including five the charges are based on.

Karr has rejected a prosecution plea bargain offer and remains jailed on 200-thousand dollars bail. - http://www.waow.com/news/full_story.php?id=42544

 

[i.b.nora]

It seems to me that a good example of why the actual computer is a must, is the Trenton Duckett case regarding the threatening eMail that Melinda claimed was sent to her by Trenton's father Josh. At the time of a hearing regarding their custody issues, the paper copy of the eMail was presented to the court or DCF as evidence. The paper evidence was taken on face value. Josh was denied the right to see his son and a restraining order was issued against him.

More recently, we learn from a police investigation, that Melinda Duckett actually did enter into Josh's account, composed the threatening eMail and sent it to herself from Josh's account.
Without the opportunity to investigate the actual computers involved, it might never have been proven what Josh had said all along, that Melinda sent the eMail.

So, my feeling is that without the physical availability of John Karr's computer, the prosecution can claim anything they want. The print-outs are meaningless in my opinion. Karr's defense team needs to be able to investigate the actual computer.

The fact that the DDA basically lied to the judge, in a court of law, indicates to me that she is capable of lying about anything. I don't trust the DDA, and I don't trust the Sonoma Sheriff's Department regarding this case. The use of Wendy Hutchens as an informer, has never ever sat well with me. Especially after she was hawking her 'duplicated' evidence tapes to the media, and trying to sell a copy of her journal on eBay.

Sonoma County should have dropped the whole case, once he was shipped off to Boulder.

 

[panthera]

So, my feeling is that without the physical availability of John Karr's computer, the prosecution can claim anything they want. The print-outs are meaningless in my opinion. Karr's defense team needs to be able to investigate the actual computer.

The fact that the DDA basically lied to the judge, in a court of law, indicates to me that she is capable of lying about anything. I don't trust the DDA, and I don't trust the Sonoma Sheriff's Department regarding this case. The use of Wendy Hutchens as an informer, has never ever sat well with me. Especially after she was hawking her 'duplicated' evidence tapes to the media, and trying to sell a copy of her journal on eBay.

Sonoma County should have dropped the whole case, once he was shipped off to Boulder.

I absolutely agree with you. The computer is the source of the "evidence". No computer ~ no case. It was already suspect enough with the involvement of Wendy Hutchens. He shouldn't be prosecuted based on what everyone feels he may have done or may be capable of doing.

 

[i.b.nora]

Karr's lawyers say *advertiser censored* case can't continue with no crime scene
KIM CURTIS
Associated Press

This is the Associated Press article published in the San Jose Mercury News. AP articles are usually the first to appear.

SANTA ROSA, Calif. - Lawyers for John Mark Karr, one-time suspect in the JonBenet Ramsey case, told a judge Wednesday that the child *advertiser censored* case against their client cannot move forward after key evidence went missing.

Sonoma County Superior Court Judge Cerena Wong agreed to consider whether to dismiss the five misdemeanor charges against Karr amid revelations that the sheriff's department lost the computer that allegedly held the pornographic images.

On Wednesday, sheriff's officials and prosecutors revealed that not only was the computer missing, but also their copies of its contents. All that remains is reports from the 2001 investigation and new information about what was contained on Karr's computers.

Defense lawyer Gayle Gutekunst argued that without a crime scene, she had no way to properly defend Karr nor would prosecutors be able to make a case against him.

"We can't cross-examine this evidence," Gutekunst said. "That makes us profoundly ineffective. The crime scene is gone."

Three hard drives, a laptop computer, diskettes and a zip drive were seized from Karr's home when he was arrested in 2001, but he fled before his trial.

Sheriff's Detective John Eubanks, however, testified that he found 1,600 pornographic images on about 100 diskettes, CDs and a removable disk drive - all collected from Karr in 2001, but newly analyzed by Eubanks. Karr faces no criminal charges in connection with those images and prosecutor Joann Risse wouldn't say whether additional charges would be filed.

Wong interrupted Eubanks' testimony, calling his analysis of the other evidence irrelevant.

"That computer which contained those five images is missing," she said.

Sheriff's property room chief Helga Ritter testified she told the lead investigator as early as Aug. 18 that the computer was missing. The prosecutor admitted she knew about it since Aug. 30.

Defense lawyers said they weren't notified until last Thursday about the computer; they found out Tuesday about the copies.

Gutekunst said she believes "what may have started out as sloppiness," may now rise to "bad faith" on the part of the prosecutor and worthy of possible sanctions.

Testimony was scheduled to resume Friday.

There is more...

 

[panthera]

Thanks for posting the link. This whole case is just so bizarre it is almost unbelievable that this could've happened. It seems the judge will have no choice but to dismiss the case. How could a jury trust that the reports are accurate if the DA's office is so negligent as to lose the computer/contents? And if a jury were to convict Karr without the computer/contents, would it be based on the evidence or that his name has been associated with the JBR case and everything else that is known about him irrelevant to the 2001 charges?

 

[panthera]

Investigators Claim to Find Record of John Mark Karr's Lost Child *advertiser censored*

Investigators found a mirror image of lost computer data containing child *advertiser censored* evidence against John Mark Karr, a Sonoma County prosecutor said Friday.

"A late breaking development" Judge Cerena Wong said at the start of the hearing on whether five misdemeanor counts should be dismissed against Karr.

The find was announced two days after prosecutor Joann Risse said Karr's computer hard drive and a copy of the contents were missing.

(more at link)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,216680,00.html

 

[i.b.nora]

According to Jim Hammer, on Greta's show tonight, the "missing" mirror image that has turned up, also has on it two other more recent cases. Hmmmm.

Doesn't seem to me like its a mirror image any more. I can't figure out exactly what kind of a storage device they used to store the mirror image, but mention was made that it is a tape.

I just think the whole thing smells.

 

[Details]

According to Jim Hammer, on Greta's show tonight, the "missing" mirror image that has turned up, also has on it two other more recent cases. Hmmmm.

Doesn't seem to me like its a mirror image any more. I can't figure out exactly what kind of a storage device they used to store the mirror image, but mention was made that it is a tape.

I just think the whole thing smells.

If it's a tape, that's not really a problem - it's just a record of all the bits, exactly as they were, on the hard drive - a good reliable backup because the bits won't change their position.

 

[i.b.nora]

Here is the latest Press Democrat article:
Published: Friday, Sep 29, 2006

Karr to stand trial
By LORI A. CARTER
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT

"A Sonoma County judge rejected a defense request to dismiss the child *advertiser censored* charges against John Mark Karr, setting the stage for a trial to begin Monday."


"Prosecutor Joan Risse handed a copy of the mirror-image hard drive to Karr’s attorneys in court Friday morning.

Detective Wade Eubanks and Lt. Rob Giordano testified that computer data from at least two other cases had been rewritten onto the same hard drive and it had reformatted at least once before detectives discovered the alleged Karr images this week.

It was the Sheriff's Department policy in 2001 to copy a defendant’s hard drive onto another drive, from which they examined potential evidence.

Because of the expense of hard drives at the time, the department then reformatted and reused the mirror-image hard drives for other cases."

 

[lighthouselover]

What is wrong with this judge? Had this been any other defendant, this case would have been thrown out. Allowing a "mirror image" hard drive, that also contains evidence from "at least two other cases" (that are not Karr's)? Wouldn't this jeopardize not only Karr's case, but the other cases? And they "just found" this and the judge thought this was an acceptable way to prosecute a case?

Unbelieveable.

And why have the prosecutors not mentioned Karr having a computer in Thailand in direct violation of his bail agreement?

 

[LovelyPigeon]

The prosecutor was called to the stand as a witness, and had to explain both the confusion and the seeming incompetence concerning the computer evidence.

The judge ruled that the trial can proceed.

If there's a chain of custody established, the mirror image and/or print outs should be allowable evidence.

I admit that the vile content of Karr's emails influences me to want to see him stand trial on the existing evidence, and if convicted, become a registered sex offender. I'm hopeful that if he remains high-profile children will be in less danger from him.

 

[lighthouselover]

But does the "mirror image" show where Karr got the images? If these are the same images emailed to him from Wendy Hutchens, would it show that? Or does it just show "images"?

The prosecutors LIED to the judge about this evidence when they told her "they were looking at the hard drive" and knowing all the while that it was missing. IMO, they are under tremendous pressure to convict Karr of 'something', anything that will require the sex offender registration, but is this really how we want to prosecute people? Don't we all want a "clean" conviction?

The jury, IMO, is probably going to feel the same pressure.

I'm assuming that this is all the evidence they have and the judge has, in essence, ruled it admissable?

 

[LovelyPigeon]

It seems that the only evidence LE ever had was the images found on Karr's computer. That's the same evidence the prosecutor wants to use to prosecute him with. The actual computer is not in evidence, but the images removed from Karr's computer and stored as a mirror image are in evidence.

I definitely want a clean conviction, if there's a conviction at all. The images may not impress the jury that the photos are actual *advertiser censored*--we'll have to wait and see what the outcome will be. The only evidence of child *advertiser censored* is the photos themselves, and those should be judged by a jury at trial, or if Karr opts for a plea bargain, for a judge to determine.

Having an actual computer in evidence in the court room isn't necessary. There will be LE witnesses called who will describe finding the images, copying the hard drive, storing the mirrored images, etc The images will be printed out and available for the jury to view. As long as the chain of evidence is documented properly, there shouldn't be a problem establishing that the images were stored on Karr's computer and that Karr was in possession of them.

I still expect Karr to accept a plea offer before a trial actually proceeds.

 

[i.b.nora]

Another take on Friday's hearing from SFGate (San Francisco Chronicle):

Discovery of evidence highlights frenzied day in child *advertiser censored* hearing "

"A Sonoma County judge refused Friday to dismiss child *advertiser censored* charges against former JonBenet Ramsey murder suspect John Mark Karr after a wild day in court highlighted by the discovery of missing evidence and the transformation of the prosecutor into a witness.

Judge Cerena Wong scheduled a hearing for Monday on whether to unseal arrest and search warrants in the case and to determine whether to delay the trial, which is scheduled to begin that day.

In a highly unusual move, Chief Deputy District Attorney Joan Risse was called Friday to testify about why she took so long to tell defense lawyers and the judge about the loss of Karr's computer.

Wong's decision to call the prosecutor to the witness stand came after Risse announced that sheriff's department investigators had, after much searching, found a copy of a hard drive in which Karr allegedly stored five pornographic pictures of children in 2001, when he lived in Petaluma."


"At Friday's hearing, Amparan said the evidence is far from pristine. The hard drive containing the mirror image was discovered in a computer forensics lab, and information from at least two other cases have been stored on the drive since 2001.

The attorney called computer expert David Townsend, who said "the possibility of cross-contamination is significant.""

"At one point, Risse was forced to admit that she had not yet prepared a standard witness list, although the trial is scheduled to begin Monday. Amparan lashed into the prosecution for offering a plea bargain that would have subjected Karr "to lifelong registration as a sex offender when they had no evidence.""

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