CA - Christopher Dorner kills 4 in tri-county rampage, Feb 2013 - #3

[Elley Mae]

I also heard this am that he was in the basement, if true would make sense. He was probably trying to keep from being detected with thermal imaging.

 

[Starry Night]

Of course they are. But LE, and any arm of the government that is charged with upholding the law and meting out justice must be held to a higher standard. Especially the arm that is - literally - armed!

Law enforcement cannot mete out justice, or carry out killings, deliberately, like a hit squad or a mob of angry citizens. There is something wrong in the organization if a mIndset like this is found to be pervasive. It's not good for any of us, law abiding citizens and criminals alike.

I see you are stepping up your rhetoric- now LE is 'like a hit squad'. And I don't understand why you would be concerned for criminal's rights. They certainly don't follow any rules. Especially when it comes to carrying out killings deliberately.

War is hell.
All is fair in love and war.

 

[Voice4theSilent]

I am on the fence here. It seems like they could have waited him out...since he apparently didn't have hostages or anything like that. Then again, with his bragging about "unconventional and asymmetrical warfare" maybe it was best to be aggressive and end it. Plus nightfall was closing in...

It is my understanding, and we won't know for sure for a while, I am sure, that he killed himself. Waiting out a dead body doesn't make much sense to me. :waitasec:

 

[jjenny]

Because wishing to burn the cabin, with a human being inside it, shows a wish to kill, rather than simply take the suspect into custody. It is not LEs job to serve justice. That is up to the courts.

Because wishing to jump to burning the cabin, rather than using other, less dangerous means of ensuring the safety of both the suspect and the public, gives the impression that LE is going beyond merely enforcing the law, and into the realm of revenge.

Well, apparently he shot and killed one officer from the cabin itself. So I guess LE should have calmly sat around waiting to be killed off one by one.
While being well behaved and all talking to each other politely.
That's what some apparently want them to do.

 

[i.b.nora]

Here are 3 pictures of the Command Center area on Friday, February 8, 2013:

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/interactive/article/J1/20130208/NEWS0801/130208001

 

[Gardenlady]

I see you are stepping up your rhetoric- now LE is 'like a hit squad'. And I don't understand why you would be concerned for criminal's rights. They certainly don't follow any rules. Especially when it comes to carrying out killings deliberately.

War is hell.
All is fair in love and war.

no, I said they cannot behave as if they are hit squads. Their job is law enforcement. Not revenge. This is a critical thing for a society that wishes to live within the rule of law. I'm not sure why this is some kind of objectionable statement.

Btw can you please answer my question to you I posted aways back, about increasing attacks on LE?

 

[jjenny]

no, I said they cannot behave as if they are hit squads. Their job is law enforcement. Not revenge. This is a critical thing for a society that wishes to live within the rule of law. I'm not sure why this is some kind of objectionable statement.

Btw can you please answer my question to you I posted aways back, about increasing attacks on LE?

And who says they were behaving like a hit squad? You?
Dorner being in the cabin didn't render him harmless.

 

[danzn16]

Ah, but, wanting revenge is only an emotion. They had to follow orders, which they did. They could not barge in and do as most humans in that moment would state would cross their mind, and they may say it out loud. They still followed the orders. They did not barge in and force revenge. The words were just mutterings of someone under fire, not actions that could be taken.

Yep it's one of the reasons the scanner thread can't be posted up here, things are taken out of context.

 

[Gardenlady]

Well, apparently he shot and killed one officer from the cabin itself. So I guess LE should have calmly sat around waiting to be killed off one by one.
While being well behaved and all talking to each other politely.
That's what some apparently want them to do.

Really, is there no middle ground between burning a building knowing a human being is in there, and "sitting around talking politely"?

 

[Thorn]

With all due respect to those questioning LE use of force to end this manhunt, and the actions that were taken/emotions that were displayed; I feel that you are all missing the HUGE contributing factor as to why LE responded the way they did. They were UNDER FIRE and being confronted by an ACTIVE SHOOTER!!! When cornered Dorner DID NOT come out of the cabin with his hands up to surrender, the *advertiser censored* was SHOOTING at them!! He had just MURDERED yet another officer and critically injured yet another officer, and because of his actions it was clear that his desire was to ADD even more officers to his body count! I for one am glad that the responding officers took steps to ensure that he did not have that opportunity.
That being said, I respect that different people have different life experience to draw from. However, I would hazard a guess that many of you questioning the actions of LE would not respond to being SHOT at by a man that has already MURDERED four innocent citizens by standing by and not defending yourselves. IMO, anyone who claims that restraint was needed by LE in this situation is full of horse pucky and needs a HUGE reality check. Do officers have to abide by the law, absolutely and they did, self defense is legal.
Mods if I have overstepped my bounds, please feel free to delete all or part of this post. TIA

 

[Voice4theSilent]

Of course they are. But LE, and any arm of the government that is charged with upholding the law and meting out justice must be held to a higher standard. Especially the arm that is - literally - armed!

Law enforcement cannot mete out justice, or carry out killings, deliberately, like a hit squad or a mob of angry citizens. There is something wrong in the organization if a mIndset like this is found to be pervasive. It's not good for any of us, law abiding citizens and criminals alike.

You can hold people to a higher standard but you can't expect humans not to act like humans. It is impossible.

I think it is a bit premature to start criticizing LE for "carrying out a killing" when we don't even have confirmation on how Dorner died. I think he killed himself however NOTHING about the way they handled themselves yesterday outside of that cabin was indicative of a "hit squad or a mob of angry citizens."

 

[Gardenlady]

And who says they were behaving like a hit squad? You?
Dorner being in the cabin didn't render him harmless.

I was misquoted, you might want to read my original.

Speaking of LE in general, I said that we cannot have LE acting like hit squads, or mobs of angry citizens.

Those are two entities that would be an example of seeking vengeance, rather than simply upholding and enforcing the law, which is what LE should do.

 

[Voice4theSilent]

With all due respect to those questioning LE use of force to end this manhunt, and the actions that were taken/emotions that were displayed; I feel that you are all missing the HUGE contributing factor as to why LE responded the way they did. They were UNDER FIRE and being confronted by an ACTIVE SHOOTER!!! When cornered Dorner DID NOT come out of the cabin with his hands up to surrender, the *advertiser censored* was SHOOTING at them!! He had just MURDERED yet another officer and critically injured yet another officer, and because of his actions it was clear that his desire was to ADD even more officers to his body count! I for one am glad that the responding officers took steps to ensure that he did not have that opportunity.
That being said, I respect that different people have different life experience to draw from. However, I would hazard a guess that many of you questioning the actions of LE would not respond to being SHOT at by a man that has already MURDERED four innocent citizens by standing by and not defending yourselves. IMO, anyone who claims that restraint was needed by LE in this situation is full of horse pucky and needs a HUGE reality check. Do officers have to abide by the law, absolutely and they did, self defense is legal.
Mods if I have overstepped my bounds, please feel free to delete all or part of this post. TIA

Agree! Agree! Agree!

 

[danzn16]

Let me try it this way. It isn't the "****er" part that's disturbing, it's the wish for him/it to "burn" that is disturbing.

We get it. Dorner started the fire as reports are stating, that was his wish. Dorner started the murders, the fire fight, that needed to be ended before night fall so he couldn't escape and kill more. So by all means... Let the MFer burn.

His choice.

 

[gramcracker]

someone upthread wondered why dogs weren't used sooner. exactly

first reports "surfaced" around 8:30am re burned truck so it was discovered a little earlier than that. IMO the first reports came from what was being heard on local scanner (altlho no one was connecting Dorner w/ BB at that time). it didn't snow until the next day

it wasn't just an abandoned vehicle, ho hum, another day in paradise, it was burned, and bore plates from another vehicle. could've belonged to a rapist or child molester or armed robber

someone in LE's first thought should've been: let's have a dog or three go over this here immediate neighborhood before that storm blows in tomorrow

 

[Gardenlady]

You can hold people to a higher standard but you can't expect humans not to act like humans. It is impossible.

I think it is a bit premature to start criticizing LE for "carrying out a killing" when we don't even have confirmation on how Dorner died. I think he killed himself however NOTHING about the way they handled themselves yesterday outside of that cabin was indicative of a "hit squad or a mob of angry citizens."

"burn it down" doesn't sound like something you'd hear from an angry mob? Ive heard people in near riots shout the same thing, but I would guess no one would defend it in that context. I wouldn't.

If an order was given to deliberately burn that cabin, knowing a human being was inside it, that is scary to me. As is what sounds like an attitude of vengeance from LE yelling those phrases. I do not fault anyone for losing their cool, but a higher standard must be upheld, and if it is not then we as citizens need to know why, and how to prevent it from happening again.

 

[Starry Night]

no, I said they cannot behave as if they are hit squads. Their job is law enforcement. Not revenge. This is a critical thing for a society that wishes to live within the rule of law. I'm not sure why this is some kind of objectionable statement.

Btw can you please answer my question to you I posted aways back, about increasing attacks on LE?

I follow the news and I can't produce any stories right now, but there is an increased number of attacks on LE in this country.
It's a mindset.

 

[Lois Lane]

It is my understanding, and we won't know for sure for a while, I am sure, that he killed himself. Waiting out a dead body doesn't make much sense to me. :waitasec:

The single shot heard from inside the cabin was after the fire had started.

https://archive.org/details/DornerStandoff2

 

[danzn16]

I thought yesterday that one media source said he tried to exit the back, but was driven back in.

Erroneous report by media. Like that they had found his body before the cabin had even stopped burning. LE states he never came out of the cabin

 

[believe09]

Well, apparently he shot and killed one officer from the cabin itself. So I guess LE should have calmly sat around waiting to be killed off one by one.
While being well behaved and all talking to each other politely.
That's what some apparently want them to do.

:floorlaugh:

And I feel guilty laughing in this tragic situation.