CA - Christopher Dorner kills 4 in tri-county rampage, Feb 2013 - #3

[bourne]

No, that is absolutely not the reason or even a reason why this situation occurred.

What bothers me is that Dorner himself felt that if a person said certain words that he didn't agree with he was completely justified in physically harming and even murdering that individual. That is irrational and dangerous.

It scares me and causes me great concern that anyone would feel that someone using the "f" word could be the cause of a monster's rampage of murder!

Last, perhaps "burn the mother f'er" meant burn the cabin? That is what my first thought was but perhaps it is my generation's speak? Regardless, they are mere words. WORDS!

Yep, not only was Dorner paranoid and delusional, but ironic and hypocritical too.

 

[Voice4theSilent]

As far as I'm concerned "burn the mother******" is a mindset, an attitude, a dangerous mindset, a judge and jury mindset, NOT just a crass or disrespectful holler in the middle of a dangerous situation - a mindset.

My opinion

"Burn the mother****** " is a statement/command not a mindset or an attitude. If he had said "Burn the building" would that have been a mindset or an attitude? I find it highly offensive that someone who just watched two co-workers get shot down in cold blood is being judged by his choice of using the "f" word in such a high stress situation. Who can rationalize making any statement , opinion or not, about this man being a danger to others based solely on his use of the word "*advertiser censored****"? :banghead:

 

[time]

I agree to a certain extent. Ideally we'd like LE to behave in a manner becoming of a professional officer -- kind, respectful, compassionate and above all else, act with integrity and top-notch skills. However, in real life, under high pressure and extraordinary life-or-death risks, no one acts in an ideal, flawless way.

IMO LE acted the best way they were capable of given the circumstances. But every situation is a learning experience. I think the take-home from this is that LE should be taught upgraded negotiation and crisis-management skills that could have expedited the perp's surrender and less lives lost, and also LE needs more sensitivity training.

Well, the problem here is the gray areas. It's not about LE being perfect or being Boy Scouts (oh, wait, that doesn't exactly work anymore)... it's about certain boundaries just should not be crossed I don't care how damned upset they are. They are there to take extraordinary life or death risks everyday so WTH?

 

[Starry Night]

WHether it referred to the cabin, or to the man inside, it speaks to a mindset of revenge, rather than a mindset of wishing to merely enforce and uphold the law.

It's a mindset more indicative of vigilante or mob justice, than of a society that wishes the rule of law.

The police and entire justice system must be dispassionate, unbiased, fair, and live by the same laws all other citizens must. Otherwise there is justice for none of us. It's scary, frankly.

Your post demonstrates to me the trending attacks on LE. Now they are being judged by their stress under fire as opposed to their courage. And what do we know what precipitated those comments-after the Deputies were shot or not.

 

[Gardenlady]

"Burn the mother****** " is a statement/command not a mindset or an attitude. If he had said "Burn the building" would that have been a mindset or an attitude? I find it highly offensive that someone who just watched two co-workers get shot down in cold blood is being judged by his choice of using the "f" word in such a high stress situation. Who can rationalize making any statement , opinion or not, about this man being a danger to others based solely on his use of the word "*advertiser censored****"? :banghead:

Let me try it this way. It isn't the "****er" part that's disturbing, it's the wish for him/it to "burn" that is disturbing.

 

[Voice4theSilent]

WHether it referred to the cabin, or to the man inside, it speaks to a mindset of revenge, rather than a mindset of wishing to merely enforce and uphold the law.

It's a mindset more indicative of vigilante or mob justice, than of a society that wishes the rule of law.

The police and entire justice system must be dispassionate, unbiased, fair, and live by the same laws all other citizens must. Otherwise there is justice for none of us. It's scary, frankly.

Not for me or for the people I know that I grew up with around here. Using the "f" word doesn't speak to anything but a choice to use the "f" word or not. Perhaps to you or to your generation using the "f" word means something more (clearly, A LOT more) however it is dangerous and scary, frankly, for you to claim to know what the mindset was of the individual who used the "f" word based on nothing more than YOUR interpretation of what that word means to YOU.

 

[gramcracker]

From your link and BBM:

Google mapped 1200 [block] of Club View Drive...whoa.

thank you. whoa is right

 

[deoneta]

WHether it referred to the cabin, or to the man inside, it speaks to a mindset of revenge, rather than a mindset of wishing to merely enforce and uphold the law.

It's a mindset more indicative of vigilante or mob justice, than of a society that wishes the rule of law.

The police and entire justice system must be dispassionate, unbiased, fair, and live by the same laws all other citizens must. Otherwise there is justice for none of us. It's scary, frankly.

I think it speaks to the completely rational desire to neutralize a dangerous fugitive, already involved in prior multiple shootings, who is actively engaging in a fire fight with police officers. All MOO

 

[time]

I was talking about this w/ someone because I owned a cleaning service when I lived up there, about 75% residential and 25% seasonal. the seasonal part involved freshening the place before their arrival and cleaning after their departure. during the winter season I would turn on heat and water the morning or afternoon of their arrival, clear snow from decks/porches/walks, and bring milk, eggs, bread, butter, etc if requested, adding that cost to their invoice

so someone was asking me if I would've entered empty cabins during this situation. I said I surely would have been looking for footprints or damaged doors/windows before entering a cabin anywhere in town, but that I would have entered a cabin across from the command center w/o giving any of that a second thought

Those two women are very lucky he was so focused on LE. I'm not sure why LE didn't lock it all down and tell cleaning crews not to enter any empty cabins.

 

[Gardenlady]

Your post demonstrates to me the trending attacks on LE. Now they are being judged by their stress under fire as opposed to their courage. And what do we know what precipitated those comments-after the Deputies were shot or not.

What trending attacks on LE? And how is my wish for the law to be upheld in a fair, unbiased, and dispassionate manner for all indicative of these attacks? :waitasec:

 

[Paulette]

I was thinking that CD had an ammunition belt attached to his body. How else could he run? And he was the one that started the fire with his ammo. LE could hear ammo exploding in the cabin for quite a while. He knew there no way he could continue his rampage and so killed himself.

Funny that, he just couldn't conceive that the jig was up when he lost his truck & waited in the 1st cabin for LE to clear out of the area so he could continue to wreak destruction on his enemies. He had no plan, just a 'wait it out' scenario. And everybody thought he multiple plans.

To be so arrogant as to think he could come up against LE & succeed is beyond delusional.

The world is well rid of him.

 

[Lois Lane]

It is too early to say whether someone will collect a $1.2 million reward following the possible death of a man believed to be Christopher Dorner on Tuesday in the San Bernardino Mountains.

In addition, the rules for determining how the reward will be distributed haven't been sorted out, said a spokeswoman for Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa.

"The reward distribution is a very complicated process," said Vicki Curry, senior press secretary for Villaraigosa.

More at the link:

http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_22578063/too-early-say-if-someone-will-get-1

 

[Gardenlady]

Not for me or for the people I know that I grew up with around here. Using the "f" word doesn't speak to anything but a choice to use the "f" word or not. Perhaps to you or to your generation using the "f" word means something more (clearly, A LOT more) however it is dangerous and scary, frankly, for you to claim to know what the mindset was of the individual who used the "f" word based on nothing more than YOUR interpretation of what that word means to YOU.

My generation, gen X, probably drops the F word more than most, lol. For the third or fourth time, it is not the swear word that is disturbing! :banghead:

 

[gramcracker]

More at the link:

http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_22578063/too-early-say-if-someone-will-get-1

they talked the talk, now they need to walk the walk

 

[gramcracker]

I think it speaks to the completely rational desire to neutralize a dangerous fugitive, already involved in prior multiple shootings, who is actively engaging in a fire fight with police officers. All MOO

I find myself thanking posts on both sides of this particular conversation because I think that both sides are correct

 

[Voice4theSilent]

BBM - Words can be very dangerous, loaded with meaning.

I would take a loaded gun over a mouthful of words to defend myself against a rabid animal, a crazed gunman or Christopher Dorner any day of the week. Words are words.

Can they hurt your feelings, incite a riot, anger someone? Absolutely. Are they ever justification to murder someone? Absolutely not!

 

[Herding Cats]

The fact that Dorner focused on LE and their families is not all that fascinating to me. The guy had a huge ego, thinking he was Rambo Robin Hood. But he was basically disgruntled worker who acted out in a sinister manner. The easy ambush of Monica and Keith showed his true punk character. Yes, Dorner was a nut-case, but not a fascinating nut-case. I'm sure he wanted the public to believe he was super special.

Mr. Happy...lemme say, first, that I understand your position. Then again, you need to take into consideration where you're posting - a crime site. And just so you're aware, I think Ted Bundy was fascinating; same thing with Dahmer. And on and on. I am intrigued and find fascinating some of the more "famous" killers, and some of the not-so-famous ones, too.

Specifically, in Dorner's situation, I find it truly fascinating that he did not hurt his hostages, or the guy he carjacked...when they posed a significant risk of capture, and indeed did cause the shootout with their reports...but they were unharmed (physically...).

See, for me, I think this *is* fascinating. If Dorner were targeting just anyone, those three would've been killed just so he could get away. But Dorner had compartmentalized his focus, and held himself to only murdering those who were connected to his specific situation and no one else.

I said that early on in the situation that I didn't feel the threat from him (or from LAPD, frankly), as I was not a target, and could not be construed as a target. I'd figured out early on his target were those in uniform or family of those in uniform, and not me or my type (I believe I said middle aged, middle weight suburbanites). I was chastised then, too...but having lived through a few serial killers in this area, and being part of their victim profile...well...it's just not the same.

Bear in mind, I'm not holding him out as a hero, a dark knight, a Robin Hood...he was an evil, vile murderer who deserved no less than what he got - an ignominious end to an horrific reign of terror.

That doesn't make him less fascinating...he has an interesting criminal mind ala Bundy, Dahmer, et al, and to me, that's interesting. It's all right that you don't find him interesting or fascinating...I freely admit that I have odd interests; but that's all right.

We can agree to disagree...I have my interests, and I find this case to be really interesting (and similar to the Unibomber, too). I believe there is a lot to be learned from him, regarding mental health, and response to pressure/sequelae to MI. You don't have to agree.

But in no way do I, or anyone I've read here recently, hold that Dorner was any sort of hero, or "anti-hero". Not at all, not even in the slightest.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[Lois Lane]

Associated Press (BBM):

Until Tuesday, authorities weren't sure Dorner was still in Big Bear Lake, where his pickup was found within walking distance from the cabin where he apparently hid. An intensive search failed to turn up any trace of him in the quiet, bucolic neighborhood where children were playing in the snow Tuesday night.

With many searchers leaving town amid speculation Dorner was long gone, the command center across the street was taken down Monday.

http://www.chicoer.com/ci_22581059/maids-sparked-events-ending-manhunt-la-ex-cop

 

[Starry Night]

Let me try it this way. It isn't the "****er" part that's disturbing, it's the wish for him/it to "burn" that is disturbing.

lol-I hope if I am ever in danger from some perp that the cops say and do 'disturbing' things.

 

[Gardenlady]

Not for me or for the people I know that I grew up with around here. Using the "f" word doesn't speak to anything but a choice to use the "f" word or not. Perhaps to you or to your generation using the "f" word means something more (clearly, A LOT more) however it is dangerous and scary, frankly, for you to claim to know what the mindset was of the individual who used the "f" word based on nothing more than YOUR interpretation of what that word means to YOU.

Let me try it this way. It isn't the "****er" part that's disturbing, it's the wish for him/it to "burn" that is disturbing.

Quoting myself here, in case it got lost on the last page. I hope this finally puts to bed the mistaken assumption that it is the f-word that some of us find disturbing.