CA - Christopher Dorner kills 4 in tri-county rampage, Feb 2013 - #3

[Voice4theSilent]

Did anyone stop to think this, "burn the mother*****" mentality may be the reason, or one of them, that situations like this one happen? I haved no respect for whomever yelled that out - none.

No, that is absolutely not the reason or even a reason why this situation occurred.

What bothers me is that Dorner himself felt that if a person said certain words that he didn't agree with he was completely justified in physically harming and even murdering that individual. That is irrational and dangerous.

It scares me and causes me great concern that anyone would feel that someone using the "f" word could be the cause of a monster's rampage of murder!

Last, perhaps "burn the mother f'er" meant burn the cabin? That is what my first thought was but perhaps it is my generation's speak? Regardless, they are mere words. WORDS!

 

[LinasK]

:clap: He is not a martyr and he is not Robin Hood. He was a sick twisted soul and he had the goods to follow up on his fantasy of murder and mayhem. I wish that the influences he cited in his manifesto had more of an impact on his life.

The ultimate irony is that in his manifesto he said that he was for gun control and supported Diane Feinstein's call for bans on assault rifles!!!

 

[time]

Christopher Dorner Was Hiding Just Steps From Dragnet's Command Center

But it now appears that Dorner never left the area, and may have hid out in an unoccupied cabin just steps from where cops had set up a command center.



It was at the cabin Tuesday morning where two women arrived to find a man matching Dorner's description inside. He took the women hostage, tying them up and stealing their car. At 12:20 p.m. PT, one of the woman broke free and called police.

 

[time]

Got to take the entire post in and work with the wording. They were under attack, being fired at. Whatever was said, regardless how crass or disrespectful (being shot at with intent to kill is equally as disrespectful), is moot when taken in context.

Sorry, no, it is not moot if it meant they just wanted revenge. You may think it is personally, but that is not how our law enforcement is supposed to work. I am not judging the officers, just saying it raises a red flag - particularly given the context.

 

[Trident]

Got to take the entire post in and work with the wording. They were under attack, being fired at. Whatever was said, regardless how crass or disrespectful (being shot at with intent to kill is equally as disrespectful), is moot when taken in context.

As far as I'm concerned "burn the mother******" is a mindset, an attitude, a dangerous mindset, a judge and jury mindset, NOT just a crass or disrespectful holler in the middle of a dangerous situation - a mindset.

My opinion

 

[jjenny]

The ultimate irony is that in his manifesto he said that he was for gun control and supported Diane Feinstein's call for bans on assault rifles!!!

He must have believed that should apply to the rest of the population and not to him personally.

 

[21merc7]

Sorry, no, it is not moot if it meant they just wanted revenge. You may think it is personally, but that is not how our law enforcement is supposed to work. I am not judging the officers, just saying it raises a red flag - particularly given the context.

Ah, but, wanting revenge is only an emotion. They had to follow orders, which they did. They could not barge in and do as most humans in that moment would state would cross their mind, and they may say it out loud. They still followed the orders. They did not barge in and force revenge. The words were just mutterings of someone under fire, not actions that could be taken.

 

[MsFacetious]

Authorities have yet to release his name, but sources have told KNX that the man recently became a father.

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/02/13/knx-slain-san-bernardino-deputy-a-yucaipa-detective/

Poor baby... lease:

 

[Lois Lane]

Christopher Dorner Was Hiding Just Steps From Dragnet's Command Center

The condo on the left is where murder suspect Christopher Dorner reportedly hid from police near Bear Mountain Ski Resort before fleeing and winding up in a second cabin that burned down. The building on the right served as central command for the search. The building on the left is where Dorner reportedly stayed.

Photo at this link:

http://www.scpr.org/news/2013/02/12/35922/update-school-closes-due-dorner/

 

[Trident]

No, that is absolutely not the reason or even a reason why this situation occurred.

What bothers me is that Dorner himself felt that if a person said certain words that he didn't agree with he was completely justified in physically harming and even murdering that individual. That is irrational and dangerous.

It scares me and causes me great concern that anyone would feel that someone using the "f" word could be the cause of a monster's rampage of murder!

Last, perhaps "burn the mother f'er" meant burn the cabin? That is what my first thought was but perhaps it is my generation's speak? Regardless, they are mere words. WORDS!

BBM - Words can be very dangerous, loaded with meaning.

 

[Elley Mae]

since hindsight reveals that for days he was staying less than 1000 feet from where this started, the fact that the neighborhood searches consisted of entering only those cabins where someone answered the door ... that is so far from what was required and so far from reality that it is almost laughable if it wasn't so sad

what could have been done differently? I don't know, off the top of my head, take locksmiths along and have them pick the locks. or teach LE how to pick locks. if you encounter gunfire while you're working at getting inside at least you know you're at the right house

Dorner manhunt: Big Bear condo window shows sign of forced entry


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/dorner-forced-entry-big-bear-condominium.html

The screen sat in a foot of snow and rested against the back wall of Unit 203. The left-hand corner of the window frame bore a deep mark, as though some kind of tool had been used to pry the screen free of the frame.

 

[Trident]

Ah, but, wanting revenge is only an emotion. They had to follow orders, which they did. They could not barge in and do as most humans in that moment would state would cross their mind, and they may say it out loud. They still followed the orders. They did not barge in and force revenge. The words were just mutterings of someone under fire, not actions that could be taken.

Really? It seems the "mother*******", however you want to take it, man or cabin, DID burn.

My opinion

 

[Elley Mae]

BBM - Words can be very dangerous, loaded with meaning.

Literally

 

[Voice4theSilent]

re your bold, the outcome of the poorly-managed-from-the-beginning manhunt resulted in another officer losing his life yesterday. he was somone's son, brother, husband, father, friend. another officer will no doubt have a long and complicated recovery from his physical and emotional wounds

I find it very hard to believe that it is not Law Enforcement 101 to clear the immediate area. they did not come even close to clearing the immediate area. each residence where he didn't step onto a porch or show his face at a window was cleared

this IMO is not the fault of those in the field going door-to-door but rather the fault of those in charge who were deciding protocols/priorities

if you look at 1200 Club View Dr on google maps, you'll see that it is about 500 feet from the command center, on the very same street. and about 1000 feet from where he burned the truck. that is not an opinion, it is a fact which needs to be examined

don't we all learn more from our mistakes than from our successes? Human Nature 101, hopefully

I'm extremely glad/grateful that it's over, that there won't be the cost of a long incarceration and trial. my observations are that it could have been over much sooner w/o incurring the costs of all the resources and overtime, one LEO killed and another wounded

I don't know where Dorner was hiding from Thursday through yesterday. I don't know how LE were clearing buildings, who gave the command, etc. Will LE use this incident in their future training and review their actions to determine what needs to be changed if this ever occurs again, of course. I don't need to be sold on any of that. You will never convince me that it was anyone else's fault BUT Dorner's that all four of his murder victims were killed.

My comments were in regards to the following quote, "I realize Dorner's anger and threats were directed at LE, I realize he murdered LE family members and LE officers. But I find myself asking - why does that justify the outcome to this manhunt and would this rapidity of action be imposed if someone just murdered an "everyday" citizen."

The individual states (at least in my interpretation) that, while he did murder four people, it doesn't excuse the fact that LE should not have allowed Dorner to die in the cabin (which was the outcome to the manhunt) and that LE wouldn't have acted as rapid as they did if the victims weren't law enforcement or their family.

 

[bourne]

Sorry, no, it is not moot if it meant they just wanted revenge. You may think it is personally, but that is not how our law enforcement is supposed to work. I am not judging the officers, just saying it raises a red flag - particularly given the context.

I agree to a certain extent. Ideally we'd like LE to behave in a manner becoming of a professional officer -- kind, respectful, compassionate and above all else, act with integrity and top-notch skills. However, in real life, under high pressure and extraordinary life-or-death risks, no one acts in an ideal, flawless way.

IMO LE acted the best way they were capable of given the circumstances. But every situation is a learning experience. I think the take-home from this is that LE should be taught upgraded negotiation and crisis-management skills that could have expedited the perp's surrender and less lives lost, and also LE needs more sensitivity training.

 

[bourne]

I don't know where Dorner was hiding from Thursday through yesterday. I don't know how LE were clearing buildings, who gave the command, etc. Will LE use this incident in their future training and review their actions to determine what needs to be changed if this ever occurs again, of course. I don't need to be sold on any of that. You will never convince me that it was anyone else's fault BUT Dorner's that all four of his murder victims were killed.

My comments were in regards to the following quote, "I realize Dorner's anger and threats were directed at LE, I realize he murdered LE family members and LE officers. But I find myself asking - why does that justify the outcome to this manhunt and would this rapidity of action be imposed if someone just murdered an "everyday" citizen."

The individual states (at least in my interpretation) that, while he did murder four people, it doesn't excuse the fact that LE should not have allowed Dorner to die in the cabin (which was the outcome to the manhunt) and that LE wouldn't have acted as rapid as they did if the victims weren't law enforcement or their family.

I completely concur. Dorner's death was his own doing -- if in fact the charred body in the cabin is his.

 

[Lois Lane]

Dorner manhunt: Big Bear condo window shows sign of forced entry


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/dorner-forced-entry-big-bear-condominium.html

The screen sat in a foot of snow and rested against the back wall of Unit 203. The left-hand corner of the window frame bore a deep mark, as though some kind of tool had been used to pry the screen free of the frame.

From your link and BBM:

The brown, unassuming three-story condo overlooks the command post and staging area where members of the media had gathered for manhunt updates. It is next to Bear Mountain Ski & Golf Resort.

Google mapped 1200 [block] of Club View Drive...whoa.

 

[bourne]

BBM - Words can be very dangerous, loaded with meaning.

Yes, but deadly behavior is even worse.

 

[Gardenlady]

WHether it referred to the cabin, or to the man inside, it speaks to a mindset of revenge, rather than a mindset of wishing to merely enforce and uphold the law.

It's a mindset more indicative of vigilante or mob justice, than of a society that wishes the rule of law.

The police and entire justice system must be dispassionate, unbiased, fair, and live by the same laws all other citizens must. Otherwise there is justice for none of us. It's scary, frankly.

 

[gramcracker]

Christopher Dorner Was Hiding Just Steps From Dragnet's Command CenterQuote:
But it now appears that Dorner never left the area, and may have hid out in an unoccupied cabin just steps from where cops had set up a command center.

It was at the cabin Tuesday morning where two women arrived to find a man matching Dorner's description inside. He took the women hostage, tying them up and stealing their car. At 12:20 p.m. PT, one of the woman broke free and called police.

I was talking about this w/ someone because I owned a cleaning service when I lived up there, about 75% residential and 25% seasonal. the seasonal part involved freshening the place before their arrival and cleaning after their departure. during the winter season I would turn on heat and water the morning or afternoon of their arrival, clear snow from decks/porches/walks, and bring milk, eggs, bread, butter, etc if requested, adding that cost to their invoice

so someone was asking me if I would've entered empty cabins during this situation. I said I surely would have been looking for footprints or damaged doors/windows before entering a cabin anywhere in town, but that I would have entered a cabin across from the command center w/o giving any of that a second thought