CA - Christopher Dorner kills 4 in tri-county rampage, Feb 2013 - #3

[wfgodot]

Sorry but that story doesn't seem balanced to me..........looks rather slanted against LE.
JMO

And I don't see "ever-increasing attacks on LE" in any sense "trending." So we agree to disagree, I hope.

 

[bookboarder]

I just don't understand how someone can use losing a job as a justification for murder. No one's job is that important. Does it suck to lose your dream job? Yes, of course. I have experienced this firsthand. I had just gotten my dream job as a flight attendant, had gone through training and worked about 3 months when I found out my baby sister [she was 9 at the time] needed a bone marrow transplant. I applied for family medical leave of absence [FMLA] and was denied because I hadn't been working the minimum amount of time required to qualify. I was pretty dismayed at it but made the best of it and left my position so I could help my mom with my sister's transplant [6-8 weeks in isolation with a 50% chance my sis would live]. Anyway, the point is, no matter how perfect your job, no job justifies killing innocent people.

 

[time]

I just don't understand how someone can use losing a job as a justification for murder. No one's job is that important. <snip>.

I think his manifesto clearly tells a much bigger picture. Have you read it? I don't think there is any justification for killing innocent people or for killing period beyond war or self protection, but I think Dorner was mentally ill and that gestated over many years, it wasn't as simple as losing one job.

 

[Starry Night]

Funeral coverage:

http://live.producermatthew.com/p/live-channel-2.html

 

[danzn16]

Did any of the scanner peeps hear the recording that is hitting youtube just now?
It is just over five minutes long and you can hear the officers talk about deploying burners.

Yes but a retired fire fighter said it could be slang for gun and that is a common term. Not sure

 

[jjenny]

I think his manifesto clearly tells a much bigger picture. Have you read it? I don't think there is any justification for killing innocent people or for killing period beyond war or self protection, but I think Dorner was mentally ill and that gestated over many years, it wasn't as simple as losing one job.

At least he is presumably dead, so I don't have to hear about how he is mentally ill and needs help in some nice psychiatric facility instead of prison.

 

[Starry Night]

Starry Night, I am a huge supporter of LE, have always been. That said, I have some real concerns about how this was handled, specifically the lack of any attempted negotiation and the rapidity of turning to an all out attack. Most of this concern began when LAPD surrounded and fired upon two women delivering newspapers in a truck resembling Dorner's. In all honesty, at least to me, there is no acceptable excuse LAPD can provide that makes this incident (with those two women) even palatable. However, I see it as a mindset that screams LE was never going to give Dorner a chance. JMO - that is not acceptable.

I realize Dorner's anger and threats were directed at LE, I realize he murdered LE family members and LE officers. But I find myself asking - why does that justify the outcome to this manhunt and would this rapidity of action be imposed if someone just murdered an "everyday" citizen.

Appreciate your comments but I need to ask you how you would have handled it all? Make concessions first and then what?
I mean no disrespect to you. Thanks

 

[danzn16]

I am quite shocked at what was recorded!

FBI guy Tom Fuentes on CNN is saying what was said on the video is not what trained SWAT teams should be saying. He is quite confused and can't explain why an officer would be yelling that. They should be poised and disciplined.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po9EaU7ZjxI&feature=youtu.be

Was this a SWAT team or just San Bernadino PD? The officers shot were sherriffs deputies at least that is what they said on TV last night. Also 2 of their brothers had just been shot, they can call them a MFer all they want IMO. But they may have not even been SWAT or SWAT trained officers at that time

 

[21merc7]

I have no problems with how the end was handled. Someone higher up had to come up with the plan. This was a deranged and dangerous man that was killing officers. They had no choice, he was not coming out willingly.

As far as the cussing, they are men in field, basically at war with one of their own, and had just found out he had killed another of their own. Cussing and anger is expected. They didn't go in and choke him or beat him, they did as the plans were told to them. I don't see where they had another choice. They did try to slowly dismantle the place first to get him out, since he would not surrender. He wasn't going to do that.

If curse words in the line of fire bother some, I suggest never following another rapid moving gun firing event, and please don't watch any war footage, don't take a tour of a police station or an emergency room, or a kitchen restaurant. Please don't even think a whole lot doesn't go on in the White House. Even in my office, cursing is the only way the defense lawyers make it through the day. Otherwise they might blow and end up needing their own attorney for whatever kind of actions they may take. It is a normal steam valve when things are strained and high energy.

 

[danzn16]

No, I would expect them to be the trained professional individuals they are and not to be shouting "we're going to burn this mother****". I'm not going to argue my point, but if anyone ever questioned they wanted to take him alive I think this pretty clearly states their intentions. :moo:

At that point he had already shot 2 officers and started an extended fire fight. He made the choice of not wanting to be taken alive, not the LEO. They could not allow the firefight to continue, further LE lives to be lost, and night to fall so that he had the opportunity to escape. It was all Dorner's choice on whether he was taken alive or dead. The thought of saying that LE had the opportunity to take him alive yesterday and they did wrong by not doing so is so far from reality is almost laughable if it wasn't so sad.

 

[time]

I have no problems with how the end was handled. Someone higher up had to come up with the plan. This was a deranged and dangerous man that was killing officers. They had no choice, he was not coming out willingly.

As far as the cussing, they are men in field, basically at war with one of their own, and had just found out he had killed another of their own. Cussing and anger is expected. They didn't go in and choke him or beat him, they did as the plans were told to them. I don't see where they had another choice. They did try to slowly dismantle the place first to get him out, since he would not surrender. He wasn't going to do that.

If curse words in the line of fire bother some, I suggest never following another rapid moving gun firing event, and please don't watch any war footage, don't take a tour of a police station or an emergency room, or a kitchen restaurant. Please don't even think a whole lot doesn't go on in the White House. Even in my office, cursing is the only way the defense lawyers make it through the day. Otherwise they might blow and end up needing their own attorney for whatever kind of actions they may take. It is a normal steam valve when things are strained and high energy.

No disrespect, but I am a little dumfounded. Why do people think concerns about the LE comments have to do with cursing? :waitasec:

 

[Dr. Know?]

Greta Van Susteren &#8207;@gretawire
tell me this is wrong: Dorner&#8217;s Mom Spotted Drinking Wine, Eating Chips While Watching Standoff « CBS Los Angeles http://cbsloc.al/X8pW8J

https://twitter.com/gretawire

Oh my...

 

[danzn16]

Starry Night, I am a huge supporter of LE, have always been. That said, I have some real concerns about how this was handled, specifically the lack of any attempted negotiation and the rapidity of turning to an all out attack. Most of this concern began when LAPD surrounded and fired upon two women delivering newspapers in a truck resembling Dorner's. In all honesty, at least to me, there is no acceptable excuse LAPD can provide that makes this incident (with those two women) even palatable. However, I see it as a mindset that screams LE was never going to give Dorner a chance. JMO - that is not acceptable.

I realize Dorner's anger and threats were directed at LE, I realize he murdered LE family members and LE officers. But I find myself asking - why does that justify the outcome to this manhunt and would this rapidity of action be imposed if someone just murdered an "everyday" citizen.

He did murder everyday citizens. Let any person right a manifesto that is a list of people he is planning to kill, also someone that is trained and well armed and yes you are going to have a manhunt. I can't even even answer you question why does that justify the outcome of this manhunt. This man was killing ever person that tried to apprehend him in his way, there was no other outcome. I'm not sure what kind of movie dream world people would like to live in but their is no negotiating with someone that wants to murder you.

 

[jjenny]

No disrespect, but I am a little dumfounded. Why do people think concerns about the LE comments have to do with cursing? :waitasec:

Has to do with comments made by talking head on CNN.

 

[danzn16]

I have no problems with how the end was handled. Someone higher up had to come up with the plan. This was a deranged and dangerous man that was killing officers. They had no choice, he was not coming out willingly.

As far as the cussing, they are men in field, basically at war with one of their own, and had just found out he had killed another of their own. Cussing and anger is expected. They didn't go in and choke him or beat him, they did as the plans were told to them. I don't see where they had another choice. They did try to slowly dismantle the place first to get him out, since he would not surrender. He wasn't going to do that.

If curse words in the line of fire bother some, I suggest never following another rapid moving gun firing event, and please don't watch any war footage, don't take a tour of a police station or an emergency room, or a kitchen restaurant. Please don't even think a whole lot doesn't go on in the White House. Even in my office, cursing is the only way the defense lawyers make it through the day. Otherwise they might blow and end up needing their own attorney for whatever kind of actions they may take. It is a normal steam valve when things are strained and high energy.

Thank you for this post. Cussing is a normal thing in training, in the military, in war, even sports. You guys that are criticizing try getting shot and see what comes out of your mouth. Sorry this isn't G rated. Totally shocked how anyone can be offended by curse words during a firefight. Lmao. I guess anything negative that someone can say about a LEO they will.

 

[time]

At least he is presumably dead, so I don't have to hear about how he is mentally ill and needs help in some nice psychiatric facility instead of prison.

Jenny... I didn't raise the mental health issue because of him needing help instead of prison. I think it went way beyond that and no amount of help was really going to help him now. But, I think a s a society, we can at least try to learn if somewhere along the line this could be prevented. There could be something to learn from it all.

Again, my comment was about the fact Dorner had a huge manifesto with all kinds of history and such in it. It was not about one job. You aren't responding to what I was actually saying, but nevermind.

 

[Gardenlady]

Can everyone stop with the curse words? That isn't the point. :banghead: and I don't understand how mocking or laughing at the op is helpful or conducive to conversation at all.

 

[gramcracker]

Starry Night, I am a huge supporter of LE, have always been. That said, I have some real concerns about how this was handled, specifically the lack of any attempted negotiation and the rapidity of turning to an all out attack. Most of this concern began when LAPD surrounded and fired upon two women delivering newspapers in a truck resembling Dorner's. In all honesty, at least to me, there is no acceptable excuse LAPD can provide that makes this incident (with those two women) even palatable. However, I see it as a mindset that screams LE was never going to give Dorner a chance. JMO - that is not acceptable.

I realize Dorner's anger and threats were directed at LE, I realize he murdered LE family members and LE officers. But I find myself asking - why does that justify the outcome to this manhunt and would this rapidity of action be imposed if someone just murdered an "everyday" citizen.

what I have in mind is the scenario presented that heavy equipment was used to tear down 3 (or 4) of the outer walls of the cabin. if that is true, what was supporting the roof that was clearly seen where a roof should be at the beginning of the fire?

another thing is a 45-minute scanner conversation between officers in 2 cars: one car repeatedly/repeatedly asked for directions in getting to the desired location, which was at the very most 2 minutes from where the conversation began. what if this was an "officer down" call, or "shots being fired", or "civilians under fire", etc? obviously they weren't equipped w/ what was needed in the field to do their jobs

I won'r say anything about Dorner hiding out for days in the very next block from where the truck was burned

having lived there for 30 years and still having local contacts I will tell you that there exists an attitude which isn't revealed until times such as this. I remember a murder where a woman was stabbed w/ an icepick 46 times. the local paper quoted LE who stated "we have ruled out suicide, at this time"

blanket admiration and respect for any category of humans can be as imprudent as blanket dislike and disrespect

 

[Elley Mae]

Memorial Micheal Crain

http://www.memorialwebcasts.com/eve...=scheduledetailMW&LCID=5523&ECTID=743&ST=CDN1

 

[21merc7]

No disrespect, but I am a little dumfounded. Why do people think concerns about the LE comments have to do with cursing? :waitasec:

No problem. Here is an example, just a talking head saying that SWAT was being unprofessional.

I am quite shocked at what was recorded!

FBI guy Tom Fuentes on CNN is saying what was said on the video is not what trained SWAT teams should be saying. He is quite confused and can't explain why an officer would be yelling that. They should be poised and disciplined.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po9EaU7ZjxI&feature=youtu.be