CA - Christopher Dorner kills 4 in tri-county rampage, Feb 2013 - #3

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Why is it so important that LE follow protocol, even when tensions are extremely high and officers fear for their lifes, as was the case in this situation? Because we need for there to be an absolute and visible line that separates the criminal ("the bad guy") from the law ("the good guys"). As a society, we cannot allow LE to act in accordance with or be driven by their own emotions (i.e., anger, fear, anxiety, etc.). When/if we tolerate that, LE then becomes no better/no different from the criminals they persue. Just saying...

AMOO ~
 
MsFacetious said:
WHY does everyone keep saying that in response to my posts? :please:
I NEVER said that it was no problem since it was all cops.
I NEVER sympathized with him OR called him a hero!


I watched them move the Deputy's body from the hospital and CRIED as I watched it.
I'm not a heartless witch who doesn't care about the cops. I am simply trying to understand this man's actions!

Obviously I am not explaining myself clearly because everyone seems to think I'm just supporting a cop killer. :what:


This is like when someone says "Wow, that serial killer only killed women... he didn't kill their children who were witnesses."

I am saying "Wow, he only killed the cops/relatives. He didn't kill the people who got in his way, unless they were law enforcement."


It's an observation that goes to his frame of mind, which I would like to understand. I don't grasp why that is such a bad thing.

I also find it interesting he was CALM when he carjacked that guy. He was running from the cops, crashed a stolen car and was still CALM.

Just talking about how horrible he was, won't prevent it from happening again. I am here to try and understand.
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Thank you for saying it so very much more clearly and eloquently than I have. :hug:
 
I am quite shocked at what was recorded!

FBI guy Tom Fuentes on CNN is saying what was said on the video is not what trained SWAT teams should be saying. He is quite confused and can't explain why an officer would be yelling that. They should be poised and disciplined.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po9EaU7ZjxI&feature=youtu.be

Local news channel Kcal9 has played a recording in which police were heard to yell “burn this mother*****r down,” and another shouting, “*advertiser censored****g burn this mother*****r,” as Dorner was barricaded inside his hideout.

The news followed an LAPD audio recording in which a police officer is heard to say, “Alright, we're gonna go ahead with the plan with the burners,” and continued, saying, “like we talked about,” as his colleague confirmed he is in agreement.
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I think Mr Dorner's manifesto is an excellent key to his state of mind. I am personally skeptical that he was driven to his actions by anyone other than himself.

He achieved his objectives, he had the eyes of the world on him and he didnt have to stick around to see the aftermath.

I have sympathy for him, but only because it is abundantly clear that he was mentally ill. I am sure he and his positions are attractive to those who are drawn to chaos, but at the end of the day he was a mentally ill who decided to commit suicide by cop and to take a bunch of people with him.

Remember the scuba gear in San Diego? He was running away. Apparently, at least at that point, fear got the better of him and he was running away.
 
mrsu said:
I am quite shocked at what was recorded!

FBI guy Tom Fuentes on CNN is saying what was said on the video is not what trained SWAT teams should be saying. He is quite confused and can't explain why an officer would be yelling that. They should be poised and disciplined.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po9EaU7ZjxI&feature=youtu.be
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Really? They are in a violent and aggressive situation, I would EXPECT a fair amount of swearing and bravado!

Sheesh they aren't Sunday school teachers, they are getting shot at, getting killed in some cases, and having to try to kill the assailant in return. Just like soldiers on a battlefield, things get aggressive and yes even CURSE WORDS are used!

I can't believe anyone would even be surprised by that.
 
txsvicki said:
I don't believe a woman aged 47 is considered an old lady, but her mother is, of course pretty old. Hopefully, medical bills will be paid, another vehicle, and lost wages, but a lawsuit allowing a person to never have to work again? Will that happen with the younger woman and surfer? Surely not.
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That's funny! I didn't know she was 47 (I hope that isn't considered "old"!) And, yes, I am certain they will be awarded, or will settle for, enough money so that they don't have to work again. Especially when the first reports on the 47 year old's progress, that I saw, came from her attorney. I would bet my house on the fact that all three have attorneys and that even some of the nearby home owners whose cars got hit by bullets have attorneys already. That's how it works in California (unfortunately!)
 
Lois Lane said:
Just a guess, but Dorner could have been injured in the firefight that preceded that transmission.

No one else was in the cabin. MOO.
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That's what I assumed, but was LE in the cabin? How did they see the blood spatter on the mattress?
 
mrsu said:
I am quite shocked at what was recorded!

FBI guy Tom Fuentes on CNN is saying what was said on the video is not what trained SWAT teams should be saying. He is quite confused and can't explain why an officer would be yelling that. They should be poised and disciplined.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po9EaU7ZjxI&feature=youtu.be
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What did he expect them to say? Please, sir, come out of the cabin? We would really appreciate it?
:floorlaugh:
 
mrsu said:
That's what I assumed, but was LE in the cabin? How did they see the blood spatter on the mattress?
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What mattress? I heard about blood spatter in the corner.
 
mrsu said:
That's what I assumed, but was LE in the cabin? How did they see the blood spatter on the mattress?
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Maybe the snipers saw it through the window? Or others that were using binoculars?
 
SCHMAE said:
So I'm confused. Can someone confirm and possibly even LINK to the truth about the women held hostage? Did he hold them for 5 days OR did he stumble upon them just yesterday ? TIA
Because I saw one's husband on the news and I'm thinking would he not have let people 5 days ago know his wife was missing and last known to go clean a cabin in the big bear area and that tip off police 5 days ago that something might be wrong? So I'm guessing they were NOT held for 5 days even though that seems to be a pretty common story. Tks
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I think he had been hiding in a cabin for five days.

On Tuesday morning two maids entered a cabin in the 1200 block of Club View Drive and ran into a man who they said resembled the fugitive, a law enforcement official said. The cabin was not far from where Dorner's singed truck had been found and where police had been holding press conferences about the manhunt.

The man tied up the maids, and he took off in a purple Nissan parked near the cabin. About 12:20 p.m., one of the maids broke free and called police.

Nearly half an hour later, officers with the California Department of Fish and Wildlife spotted the stolen vehicle and called for backup. The suspect turned down a side road in an attempt to elude the officers but crashed the vehicle, police said.

A short time later, authorities said the suspect carjacked a light-colored pickup truck. Allan Laframboise said the truck belonged to his friend Rick Heltebrake, who works at a nearby Boy Scout camp.

More: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-manhunt-dorner-20130213,0,5619031,full.story
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The rest is now history. The story I linked to is pretty complete with good detail.
 
Sonya610 said:
I do not sympathize with his claims he was treated unfairly. He choked TWO coworkers! That is NOT okay and he should have been bounced out immediately! And he was!

If he were in the postal service I would sympathize because those guys couldn't just transfer and get away from the abusive system. But LE can, if he didn't like the way the LAPD was run he could have applied for a job with another police department that was more suitable for him. He likely knew early on that the work environment was not a good match, he knew and he didn't do the rational thing which would be "apply to other departments".

Honestly the LAPD has had a reputation for quite some time now, why would someone with all of Dorner's issues (going back to grade school) decide he WANTS to work for that department? I think he chose the LAPD because he KNEW they had a reputation.
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BBM

I think that Dorner's ego made him think he could reform LAPD single handed. :waitasec:

JMO, of course - we'll never know.
 
Sonya610 said:
Really? They are in a violent and aggressive situation, I would EXPECT a fair amount of swearing and bravado!

Sheesh they aren't Sunday school teachers, they are getting shot at, getting killed in some cases, and having to try to kill the assailant in return. Just like soldiers on a battlefield, things get aggressive and yes even CURSE WORDS are used!

I can't believe anyone would even be surprised by that.
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I agree. Not to mention he could easily have been in the basement of that house and they had to burn it down to ensure he didn't come out shooting if the fire was put out to soon.
 
Trident said:
Thank you. I will pray for this man, as well as all the families involved. I believe he just had too many things go wrong in his life, more than he could deal with, and he broke.

I also believe LE should be held to a higher standard, and when they don't live up to it, there should be equal consequences. If the killing of a policman is automatically worthy of the death penalty, because of who they are, then they should be held equally accountable when they make "mistakes".

In my opinion
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Let me get this straight....it is your opinion that a police man who, in the course of his job, kills a man on accident, mistaken identity, protecting himself, etc. should be given the same punishment as a man who deliberately sets out to kill a police officer? :banghead:
 
mrsu said:
That's what I assumed, but was LE in the cabin? How did they see the blood spatter on the mattress?
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They had some limited visuals inside at that time.

It's not really clear "how" at this time, but at that time they were creating "windows" in the structure.

The blood spatters weren't said to be on the mattress, although visuals of both were stated at the same time.
 
jjenny said:
What did he expect them to say? Please, sir, come out of the cabin? We would really appreciate it?
:floorlaugh:
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This is one fabulous post. I am still laughing.:floorlaugh:

Seriously, you get the point across. I am curious to know about any gas masks he may have had. I think he probably had one. He would have expected tear gas or something like it.
Anyhow, he had options. It took awhile for the fire to progress.
He could have:
1. walked out when the fire started, hands up
2. opted for suicide
3. opted to sit tight for toasting

At this point we don't know for sure, he may have chosen option 2 before the sure fire 3.
 
popsicle said:
I heard it on the scanner but there was already reported some sort of smoke coming from under the door at the time. It sounded like he started a fire inside the house and then shot himself.
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Yes, he started a fire as a possible distraction to escape and then ended up shooting himself as the LE burn (hot gas) was started.
 
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