CA - Christopher Dorner kills 4 in tri-county rampage, Feb 2013 - #3

[Elley Mae]

In his manifesto, Dorner talks about getting a suppressor using Quicken WillMaker. No LE signoff is required. I checked this out. No fingerprints required either.

http://www.silencershop.com/support/how-to-buy-a-silencer

Yes, this is another rather unconventional way to procure a suppressor or other NFA device, and is intended for tranfers to/from corporations and investment trusts. WillMaker would be used to create a shell trust, which would be used to procure the device. The person's (trustee's) personal information is still attached to the NFA device. There is also still the matter of investigation/approval by the Bureau Of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives (BATFE or "ATF"). The ATF has stated in the past that they take a hard look at these trusts and transfers associated with them.

 

[mister happy]

I feel like people (media) are confusing what he said he could and would do with what he actually did. He made all kinds of grandiose claims but ultimately murdered 4 people, made it a few miles away and then shot himself when law enforcement found him. There were no superpowers, no amazing gifts for escaping, surviving, or mowing down hoards of people (thank God) He was just another run of the mill criminal who thought he had the right to kill because his feelings were hurt. About as much sense as killing to start helter skelter, to rape college girls, or to spray paint your hair red and kill "the enemy." A sensational crime story? Nah. They said the same about Casey Anthony, the Washington DC snipers, this woman on trial now for murder. He was just another criminal. Sorry. He could have brought about positive change in so many other ways. But that wasn't his goal. His goal was to be The Victim and The Hero. He died neither.

Agreed. Dorner was just a punk wannbee. A legend in his own mind. He was the star of his own "screenplay".. but the production didn't match the words.

 

[katydid23]

BBM

According to media reports that is not correct.

Not on the first encounter.

He tried to flee:


About 4 minutes later after he hijacked the car he had the second encounter in which shots were fired

bbm

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/dorner-manhunt-fish-and-wildlife-officers-make-the-big-break.html
It was after all at he took off on foot to the cabin:
http://blog.pe.com/crime-blotter/2013/02/13/dorner-manhunt-fish-and-wildlife-pursuit-ends-in-firefight/

My statements were about F&W whipping around with lights and sirens and pursuing him when he had been on a course to come across LE that were on the original road.

All F & W would have need to do was say “he is coming towards you all” and let them handle it.

All imo

Fish and Game are very well trained in firearms and experienced in shootouts. They go out into the woods and chase after armed hunters all of the time. There is no reason that Fish and Game Officers should not have pursued him, imo. What if they hadn't pursued and just radioed ahead? He might have turned off the road somewhere or turned around or hijacked a different vehicle. Then what would we be saying about the Fish and Game officers? " You mean they saw him and they just let him go?"

 

[Voice4theSilent]

it's about 3 hours/150 miles from San Diego to Big Bear. Corona/Riverside are on the way. did the Corona/Riverside shootings propel him to BB or was he headed there from San Diego anyway? it's a mystery

not giving him credit, not rooting for him, not supporting him, not unhappy that he's dead. hope I made that clear. but IMO his chances of survival, remaining uncaptured, were better in a hick town like BB than in the city

I did visit the Big Bear ski resort website and posted a link prior to Tuesday when people were erroneously stating it was a Free Ski law enforcement day. I understand that he could have used a scope to pick off specific targets BUT what people aren't explaining to me is if all of his intended LAPD targets were sequestered they sure weren't going skiing. Which leaves LE that he didn't know (which he clearly stated he would not harm in his manifesto...though we now know he didn't mind straying from what he had promised.) How would he know which were LE and which weren't? He couldn't, which would mean he was planning on shooting and murdering non-LE and non-LE family members (which many have already pointed out didn't fit his MO.)

IIHO I do not believe he could have gotten off of that mountain if he had just shot and killed skiers. Yes, there are numerous dirt roads all over that area however evading police and police helicopters when on one would have been impossible. He would have a MUCH better chance of using the main paved roads to escape than to try and maneuver his truck over those dirt roads at a high speed without LE being able to spot him from a helicopter and simply block any means he had of getting out of the area, however I find that an impossible scenario as well. I don't think he planned on getting off of that mountain alive, based on his behavior and his own words in his manifesto, and therefore have a hard time believing, if that was his intent, that he wouldn't have modified it a bit but still stuck to his main objective.

It is definitely going to be interesting to hear all of the information that we aren't privy to at this moment as I am sure LE has some idea of why he ended up in Big Bear. I originally thought his plan went sideways when he was spotted in Corona and from there he decided to kill the first unsuspecting LEO he could find to draw even more attention to himself but I was also positive he wasn't still on that mountain; thank God LE knew he was still up there and didn't stop their search.

Like you said, Big Bear might have been his intended destination from the beginning or an after thought after being spotted in Corona; hopefully we will find out, or perhaps we will never know.

Thanks for the response.

 

[Voice4theSilent]

BBM

According to media reports that is not correct.

Not on the first encounter.

He tried to flee:




About 4 minutes later after he hijacked the car he had the second encounter in which shots were fired:



bbm

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/dorner-manhunt-fish-and-wildlife-officers-make-the-big-break.html








It was after all that he took off on foot to the cabin:



http://blog.pe.com/crime-blotter/2013/02/13/dorner-manhunt-fish-and-wildlife-pursuit-ends-in-firefight/

My statements were about F&W whipping around with lights and sirens and pursuing him when he had been on a course to come across LE that were on the original road.

All F & W would have need to do was say “he is coming towards you all” and let them handle it.

All imo

Like other's have stated, no LEO would have visual of a suspect and willingly lose that visual nor would they keep their firearm holstered and refuse to return fire and attempt to preserve their life and the lives of the people around them when met with gunfire.

The original article you quote states that the LEO "swung his car around" which to me is a pretty neutral description of what one would do when changing direction however it is interesting how you claim he "whipped" his car around with "lights and sirens". Really?

How do you know all he would have had to have done to end the manhunt was to say "he's coming towards you all" and let the other LEO handle it? There is no way to say what might have occurred if he did that. There are numerous scenarios and some of them involve a lot more loss of life and a lot more bloodshed and some involve Dorner slipping by LE back down that mountain. You can't critique someone of their behavior based on a much better hypothetical situation when you can't hold all of the other variables constant. You don't know what Dorner would have done once he knew he was spotted. Remember, he was behind several buses. Way too much risk in letting him continue down the mountain behind several buses, even if the buses only contained one driver each and no one else.

 

[CountryGirl]

Retired FBI and Criminal Minds writer-producer Jim Clemente provides a psychological profile of Christopher Dorner

Link to video

 

[danzn16]

On the guns found in the truck, LE stated he had both flash suppressors and silencers on them. I can't find which news article it was in but I clearly remember mention of flash surpressors [they conceal the bright flash of fire a gun makes when firing] and silencers. Now, I don't know if he had them on his weapon he used in the cabin because watching video I recall seeing a flash of some sort from the direction of the cabin where he made his last stand. Also, the LE said that they heard a gun shot audibly from the cabin-- the shot many are speculating was fired in the act of Dorner committing suicide. I'm assuming that those outside of the cabin would be unable to hear the final shot if he'd had a silencer on it. I don't know how "silent" a silencer renders gunfire inaudible. I've never used either of this apparatus in my shooting experiences because of their use in criminal activities I believe they are illegal.

I'm sure many of you have heard the recordings of the audio of the gunfight at the last cabin. To my ears, I clearly hear someone firing with an automatic weapon. As I've mention previously, I live with two LEOs who are both firearm instructors for the local sheriff's office. I've been with them numerous times to the range and I've NEVER heard them fire as many rounds as rapidly as it sounds on the video/audio. It sounds distinctly "machine gun"-like. A semi auto will fire a bullet each time one pulls the trigger. What is heard in the video would be impossible for a semi-auto to do both because of how fast you'd run out of ammo and need to reload and because of the rapid-firing of the weapon. I don't believe SBCS carry fully automatic weapons but I could be wrong. Just wondering if anyone knows if fully auto weapons are used by them or their SWAT team? Thanks in advance!

I agree. In the footage posted earlier upthread is where the reporter said that about the silencers. It seemed they were only talking about the cabin fight since that's what the video was of but I could be mistaken. The reporter also stated that LE were outweaponed because Dorner had auto weapons and LE did not. I don't know if this is true or false reporting like we have so rampantly seen.

 

[Herding Cats]

Retired FBI and Criminal Minds writer-producer Jim Clemente provides a psychological profile of Christopher Dorner

Link to video

*Really* interesting...thanks, CG, for posting that.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[Sonya610]

I have learned in life that there are a group of "Monday Morning Quarterback" type of people who will pick apart and find fault in anything and everything.

I completely disagree. Don't offer a reward with a caveat that it will only be paid if the suspect is convicted when everyone knows that won't happen.

That is not cool, that is deceitful. I have no problem with what LE did but the reward thing was hokey at best. Not okay at all.

The INTENT of the reward was to LOCATE the dangerous threat and put a stop to the threat, the fact they can say "Oops....he died...no reward now!" is utter b_s.

The kidnap and carjack victim/s COULD have waited a few hours before reporting the incident, if they had who knows how this would have ended.

 

[bookboarder]

Woah! Has anyone hearseen the trailer for the new movie Dead Man Down? I'm not sure what it's about but there is a voice narrating the clip that says they are targeting anyone this person loves, their child, wife, etc. I can't remember what it said exactly but I was quite shocked when I heard it. A little too soon to hear a plot centered around something like what Dorner was attempting to do in his attacks-- targeting family of his true targets. I don't know if there is any LE at all in the film but just hearing that was very unpleasant to me.

 

[CountryGirl]

Local scanner thread of Tuesday's Dorner incident.

Quoting myself here. :floorlaugh: Anyone else surprised to read that LAPD came up there to the ridge?

 

[MsFacetious]

LE did NOT know that he was still up on the mountain.

LE was telling people on the street that they believed he was long gone.
LE had started to dismantle their command post by the time they realized he was still on the mountain.
LE had narrowed down to 25-50 officers up there. They wouldn't do that if they truly believed he was up there.

The thing to be grateful for here is that a couple decided to clean up their cabin.
That is the real reason we know where Dorner is today.

If they hadn't... we may very well still be sitting here wondering where Dorner was while he sat in the same cabin.
Or we may be dealing with more shootings, because he may have gotten off the mountain after LE left.

That couple is what revealed Dorner's location. Not LE. Not Dorner. That couple. It's just that simple. :twocents:

 

[21merc7]

I think LE "knew" he was still there, but had to release to the public something "safe" to keep mass hysteria down. Media gets told to say one thing, while LE is doing another given they thought he was watching t.v. or internet. Big Bear only has a population of roughly 5,000. 25 to 50 LE is huge for that. Not to mention FBI, US Marshals, and whatever other teams. ETA: They didn't know the exact cabin or Mountain location, but were certain he was on the Mountain. War/poker 101, make the enemy feel secure enough to show their hand.

They also couldn't take any chances just in case, just in case they were wrong so they put out an APB for everywhere he could be. I've seen things released to the public that had nothing to do with the actual situation before. A lot of things went wrong here that need to be worked on, but SWAT got there within minutes, that means they knew and were already there.

This video says some 200 officers surrounded (Don't know the actual amount given the media issues of the internet age, but is a lot). A small area does not have that readily available.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt0jI-Q3pOY"]Standoff: Dorner surrounded by police - YouTube[/ame]

Eta, again: It is clear this lady has been briefed on what to say for the first few minutes of this.

 

[Sonya610]

That couple is what revealed Dorner's location. Not LE. Not Dorner. That couple. It's just that simple. :twocents:

Yes exactly. And if that couple had decided they don't want to report it for a while (the woman said she didn't want to see Dorner dead etc...) then it is quite possible Dorner could have hid out in ANOTHER cabin until the LE stopped the road blocks.

At that point he could have headed down to LA to resume his killing spree. But no reward. Okay then.

 

[Dr. Know?]

NewsBreaker ‏@newsbreaker
BREAKING: San Bernardino authorities say 10 "silencers" belonging to Christopher Dorner were found by investigators.

 

[Dr. Know?]

1 min The Associated Press ‏@AP
BREAKING: Sheriff's office: Autopsy shows former cop Dorner died from single gunshot wound to the head -RJJ

 

[Dr. Know?]

NewsBreaker ‏@newsbreaker
BREAKING: San Bernardino Sheriff: we'll "deal appropriately" w/ person caught on tape yelling to "burn down" cabin Christopher Dorner was in

KTLA NEWS DESK ‏@KTLAnewsdesk
Deputies found the condominum door locked when searched. They were not going to kick down doors that were locked/unanswered

There's all kinds of tweets. Must be a press conference.

 

[Dr. Know?]

NewsBreaker ‏@newsbreaker
BREAKING: San Bernardino Sheriff: we'll "deal appropriately" w/ person caught on tape yelling to "burn down" cabin Christopher Dorner was in

NBC Los Angeles ‏@NBCLA
Sheriff says investigators have not yet determined why #Dorner chose to go to Big Bear. Watch live: http://4.nbcla.com/11L2oON

Hopefully this video will be available later as there's so many tweets regarding Dorner & the shootout etc...

 

[Sonya610]

NewsBreaker ‏@newsbreaker
BREAKING: San Bernardino Sheriff: we'll "deal appropriately" w/ person caught on tape yelling to "burn down" cabin Christopher Dorner was in

Hopefully "appropriately" means a high five.

 

[jjenny]

Hopefully "appropriately" means a high five.

:floorlaugh: