CA - Court upholds Menendez brothers' convictions

[Noirdame79]

Skip E. Lowe, real name Sammy Labella (June 6, 1929 – September 22, 2014) was an actor, stand-up comedian, and celebrity talk show host. In the spring of 1989, he and actress Mamie Van Doren (born 1931) attended a black-tie event at the Beverly Hilton Hotel and were seated at a table with two other couples as well as the Menendez family. Lowe testified as a defense witness in the first trial. He stated that at one point, when Jose was talking to Van Doren, Erik turned to talk to the actress to talk to her, and Jose pinched Erik hard on his upper arm, and told him, "Shut up dummy!" Erik turned red and began playing with his food. According to Lowe, Lyle appeared to be embarrassed and his behavior seemed to Lowe as if this was something that happened before. Kitty was talking to another one of the couples at the table and didn't react to what had happened, and the impression that Lowe had of her was that she was "out of it". Lowe also stated that he and Van Doren were very uncomfortable and left soon after. On cross-examination, Pamela Bozanich insinuated that Lowe only agreed to testify because the trial was televised and wanted publicity. On re-direct, Lowe clarified, "I'm on television every day, I don't need to be here. I thought I had something to say."

This was a brief incident, witnessed not only by two people who had never met the Menendez family before but who were involved in show business. It seemed that at this point, Jose seemed to have no qualms about physically and verbally abusing his sons in public. He did think that he was above the law, IMO.

 

[Noirdame79]

Lyle is one of the graduates!

For the first time, California prison inmates receive bachelor's degrees from the UC system - Golden Cinnamon

CALIFORNIA – Like other University of California graduates of 2024, a group of 23 students studied, took in-person classes, wrote reports and crammed for

goldencinnamon.ca

 

[Noirdame79]

Still no updates on the habeas corpus. If I hear anything, I will share it.

 

[iluvmua]

Anybody else going to watch Netflix's series on this?

I am

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1828763377197330571

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1838247753383657817

 

[steeltowngirl]

Anybody else going to watch Netflix's series on this?

I am

I’m watching it now. The acting in Episode 5 is tremendous.

eta: overall, a very disturbing series.

 

[acutename]

literature exists on the abused children who grow up to kill their parents

When Kids Kill Abusive Parents​

Time Magazine
https://time.com › archive › when-kids-kill-abusive-par...




Nov 23, 1992 — It accounts for about 2% of all homicides, around 300 cases a year. Most of those involve teenagers who kill abusive parents. Though the numbers ...












Parricide, when a child kills his or her parent, is an act that naturally receives much attention in the media.Jan 27, 2006

Escaping A Life Of Abuse: Children Who Kill Their Batterers ...​

does not mean, IMO, that they are psychologically "OK" afterward or that they should live free, but it gives you the understanding that at age 18 or 20 or maybe even later they finally "rebel" and it is cataclysmic. Sometimes the turn about comes so many years later that it is almost incomprehensible:

N.J. Man Admits To Stabbing Boy Scout Leader He Says ...​

CBS News
https://www.cbsnews.com › CBS New York › Local News




Jun 17, 2015 — As CBS2's Dave Carlin reported, Clark Fredericks, 49, admitted to the stabbing that killed Dennis Pegg, who was his Boy Scout leader and a ...

 

[Noirdame79]

The one positive thing about Monsters (along with good acting and a few good moments) is that it has brought more public interest to the case. More people are researching it and want to know more. On the negative side, it has brought a lot of strange pro-prosecution people out of the woodwork, especially on YouTube.

 

[otto]

I read about the trial at the time, and at no time did I believe the stories from the brothers that their parents were abusive. It seemed obvious at the time that the brothers were unhappy with the high expectations set by their father, and they wanted their parents' money without the work.

Easy way out - kill their parents, forget about studying and working, and enjoy the easy life.

Their lawyer was creative in terms of concocting a defence, but neither brother played the victim role well.

 

[otto]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
I found the belligerence at the beginning of the series offensive. I was in another room listening, and then all this loud swearing and shouting. It was ugly enough to turn off the TV.

It was maybe too dramatic, but it got everyone's attention - and it is drama, not documentary.

 

[Seattle1]

Menendez brothers' family slam 'grotesque' Netflix show 'Monsters' for 'outright falsehoods'

The extended family of Erik and Lyle Menéndez have released a statement slamming Ryan Murphy's true crime Netflix series "Monsters."

www.usatoday.com

9/26/24

 

[Seattle1]

9/24/24

 

[Seattle1]

9/23/24

 

[otto]

Menendez brothers' family slam 'grotesque' Netflix show 'Monsters' for 'outright falsehoods'

The extended family of Erik and Lyle Menéndez have released a statement slamming Ryan Murphy's true crime Netflix series "Monsters."

www.usatoday.com

9/26/24

Would the brothers like to participate in a documentary about their plan to murder their parents; clear the air? If they don't like the dramatization, perhaps they'd like to make corrections?

Blame public opinion during trial on crime writer Dominic Dunne, or give public opinion some credit?

After blowing their parents' brains out, they went on spending sprees.

"On the evening of 20 August 1989, José and Kitty Menéndez were watching TV in the den of their Beverly Hills mansion when their two sons, Lyle and Erik, entered the room carrying 12-gauge shotguns.

Police sources told the Los Angeles Times that a gun barrel was thrust into José’s mouth after he’d already been shot four times, and a final blast blew off the back of his head. Kitty, who was shot 10 times, attempted to crawl away while her sons reloaded, before receiving a fatal blast to the cheek.

Hours later, the older brother, Lyle, called 911, sobbing to the dispatcher: “Somebody killed my parents!”

The twisted truth behind Monsters: The Lyle and Erik Menendez Story

As Ryan Murphy’s ‘Monsters: The Lyle and Erik Menendez Story’ arrives on Netflix, Tom Murray speaks to a reporter who wrote a book on the infamous double parricide case. Nearly 35 years into their incarceration, new evidence has been uncovered that could prove the brothers were victims of vile...

www.independent.co.uk

 

[otto]

Lyle and Eric Menendez shot their father 4 times (he's dying) before putting their gun into their father's mouth (did they have to prop it open) and blowing off the back of his head. Their mother was alive when this happened. That adds emotional pain during death. They shot their mother 10 times before taking a break to reload, then fire the deadly shot. What did they say to each other and to their mother while this was going on?

If their father was the abuser, why did their mother get the worst of it with 6 more bullets and a reload slow death? She watched the murder of her husband by her son - maximum emotional pain. Gun in the mouth. Brutal. So far, this seems to be about Eric and Lyle having a twisted 6 year old childhood relationship with a toothbrush and a pin. Who put the gun in their father's mouth?

Maybe that's something Eric and Lyle Menendez could elaborate on in their documentary series - since dramatization is so disappointing. Who put the gun in their father's mouth? Who killed their mother?

 

[Bluebear15]

There's a documentary coming onto Netflix on Oct 7, which includes interviews with Lyle & Erik.

https://www.netflix.com/tudum/articles/the-menendez-brothers-documentary-release-date-photos-news

 

[Betty P]

Ok, I've decided to watch the Netflix show, I hope I don't regret it. This was one of those cases where everyone grew so weary of the trial, etc.

No matter how much their attorneys tried, the brothers were still unlikeable. It was difficult to summon any sympathy for the horrible murders. The materialism, arrogance, the manipulative, selfish behavior.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Ok, I've decided to watch the Netflix show, I hope I don't regret it. This was one of those cases where everyone grew so weary of the trial, etc.

No matter how much their attorneys tried, the brothers were still unlikeable. It was difficult to summon any sympathy for the horrible murders. The materialism, arrogance, the manipulative, selfish behavior.

I think it was worth the watch. I did not follow the case, but knew about it, not a lot, really. So, I watched with open eyes and without preconceived notions.

All of those traits were depicted - the materialism, arrogance, selfishness, manipulation. Also depicted was the abuse, in graphic detail, as told mainly through the brothers’ eyes, but also from relatives and acquaintances, to some degree.

There is no doubt the murders were premeditated. If the abuse by their father was anywhere near what was described, their mother had to know. Maybe they thought no one outside the family would believe them. Very troubling.

They were adults at the time of the murders. That’s the part that I can’t wrap my head around. They had options. They could have gone to authorities. They could have just left. I couldn’t see their actions as self-defense legally, and apparently a jury didn’t either.

Maybe they were abused, and maybe they murdered their parents for financial gain and revenge. Both could be true.

jmo

 

[gitana1]

I think it was worth the watch. I did not follow the case, but knew about it, not a lot, really. So, I watched with open eyes and without preconceived notions.

All of those traits were depicted - the materialism, arrogance, selfishness, manipulation. Also depicted was the abuse, in graphic detail, as told mainly through the brothers’ eyes, but also from relatives and acquaintances, to some degree.

There is no doubt the murders were premeditated. If the abuse by their father was anywhere near what was described, their mother had to know. Maybe they thought no one outside the family would believe them. Very troubling.

They were adults at the time of the murders. That’s the part that I can’t wrap my head around. They had options. They could have gone to authorities. They could have just left. I couldn’t see their actions as self-defense legally, and apparently a jury didn’t either.

Maybe they were abused, and maybe they murdered their parents for financial gain and revenge. Both could be true.

jmo

Yes. I’m with you.

I clearly remember the trial. I thought they lied about the abuse. The female attorney’s attempts to make her client seem frail and boyish were annoying.

Since then, more facts have come out to indicate that indeed, the father and possibly the mother were abusive. I mean there is usually a reason people become criminals.

Does that mitigate the crimes they committed? It could, for sure. But there are things that sort of mute those mitigators:

1. Premeditation.
2. They were adults who could have left instead of killing their parents.
3. The cold blooded manner of killing.
4. The crazy spending and buying and living large after the murders.

Is it true that they were so twisted by abuse that it turned them into killers? I’m certain. But as a society, we have consequences for criminal activity despite what led to it, for a reason: because unless they were totally insane or forced to kill or actually killing in self-defense (rather than worrying about some future possible harm to themselves), they had a choice. They could have gone to the police, filed for protective orders, etc.

They had a choice not to brutally murder their parents. Our laws aren’t supposed to enable people to take the law into their own hands.