CA CA - East Area Rapist/Golden State Killer *ARREST* #4

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JerseyGirl said:
Joseph DeAngelo’s Attorneys Argue Unsealed Warrants Could Taint Trial

DeAngelo will be back in court Thursday at 1:30 p.m. The judge may make a ruling on whether or not to release those documents and what information to redact from them. There are dozens of pages to go through.
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Ya know, at this point I'm not sure I even care what is sealed. Keep things sealed until after the trial. We will find out enough details about GSK through the trial. If we learn more about him after the trial by unsealing packets afterwards, even better. Just stream the trial online or cover it on HLN. That's all I want out of life.
 
Wing Ding said:
The only reason it took so long to arrest DeAngelo was L.E. didn't have his DNA to compare it to DNA recovered from one or more of the victims. Sure, coordinating the voluminous reports and information from all the crimes scenes between the different agencies and jurisdictions was a long, drawn-out and difficult task, but even if GSK had left some sort of calling card at each of his crime scenes for L.E., if his DNA is not in any of the local and national databases for comparison, how is that their fault they don't know who to look for? And considering DeAngelo's DNA never existed in any database (pre-arrest, that is), I guess I consider L.E. extremely lucky to have found him at all. I would never even think of criticizing L.E. for the endless, tireless work they did.
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Interesting reaction. I didn’t find that article to be particularly critical of LE. I thought they did a pretty good job of kind of setting the stage of what they had to deal with, in terms of the limited technology. Did you read it differently?
 
Gussified said:
Interesting reaction. I didn’t find that article to be particularly critical of LE. I thought they did a pretty good job of kind of setting the stage of what they had to deal with, in terms of the limited technology. Did you read it differently?
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To be honest, I didn't read the article at all. But I did read the link (Why did it take so long to arrest the Golden State Killer suspect? Interagency rivalries, old technology, errors and bad luck), and I think we now know those are separate issues from how L.E. was finally able to identify DeAngelo (through a DNA match from a distant relative).

To me the link suggests that blunders and oversights by L.E. throughout California played a role in DeAngelo living free for years. Understandably, coordinating a boatload of information takes time (years, if not decades), but if not for all that hard work, maybe DeAngelo isn't charged for everything that he now has been.

Oh, wait! Is the article saying that interagency rivalries, old technology, errors and bad luck played a role in delaying DeAngelo's arrest AFTER he'd already been identified as a suspect via a DNA match? Because I hadn't heard that claim before. And if so... in the immortal words of Roseanna Roseannadanna, "oh... well, that's very different. Never mind". :D
 
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Wing Ding said:
To be honest, I didn't read the article at all. But I did read the link (Why did it take so long to arrest the Golden State Killer suspect? Interagency rivalries, old technology, errors and bad luck), and I think we now know those are separate issues from how L.E. was finally able to identify DeAngelo (through a DNA match from a distant relative).

To me the link suggests that blunders and oversights by L.E. throughout California played a role in DeAngelo living free for years. Understandably, coordinating a boatload of information takes time (years, if not decades), but if not for all that hard work, maybe DeAngelo isn't charged for everything that he now has been.

Oh, wait! Is the article saying that interagency rivalries, old technology, errors and bad luck played a role in delaying DeAngelo's arrest AFTER he'd already been identified as a suspect via a DNA match? Because I hadn't heard that claim before. And if so... in the immortal words of Roseanna Roseannadanna, "oh... well, that's very different. Never mind". :D
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It’s really not that long an article. Worth the read, IMO. Especially if you’re going to comment on it. How much can I really quote? It’s all good.

In interviews with the Los Angeles Times, retired investigators who hunted the masked assailant said that poor communication between agencies, investigative tunnel vision and antiquated technology all contributed to the Golden State Killer's elusiveness.
...
Some of the insularity can be blamed on rivalries between departments and a law enforcement culture that did not prioritize interagency partnerships. But some of the reticence to share information stemmed in part from the theory the attacker was a cop, Phillips said.

"We couldn't be sure about the guy voluntering from the neighboring agencies," Phillips said. "There was concern about sharing information because let's face it, 'loose lips sink ships.'"
...
Hampering investigators was the fact the Golden State Killer's crimes shared some similarities but were not identical in execution.
...
While DeAngelo was allegedly terrorizing Sacramento County as the East Area Rapist, several other serial rapists were operating in the area, Shelby said. There was the Vampire of Sacramento, who killed, cannibalized and drank the blood of some of his six victims and the Bedroom Basher, who raped and bludgeoned five women to death in Orange County.
...
Much of the struggle to track the Golden State Killer and link him to the more than 100 burglaries, 46 rapes and dozen murders boils down to the technology and tactics of the time.
...
"We had no patterning, criminal pscyhological profiling" or strict protocols for maintaining the integrity of a crime scene, he said. "It was just basically a lot of gumshoe and asking questions and trying to gather as much evidence as possible."

DNA technology fully arrived in 2000, and relative to the decades before, the investigation into the Golden State Killer began evolving much more rapidly.
 
Gussified said:
Interesting reaction. I didn’t find that article to be particularly critical of LE. I thought they did a pretty good job of kind of setting the stage of what they had to deal with, in terms of the limited technology. Did you read it differently?
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Yes, you thought they (L.E.) did a pretty good job. And I agree. I think L.E. did a very good job, too. But I'm not sure that's what the author believes.

He seems to think L.E. dropped the ball at every opportunity and that linking 100+ ransackings in one county, 40+ rapes (and two murders) 200 miles away in a second county and ten additional murders 250-350 miles away in a third and fourth county is basic detective work. How ridiculous. Putting all the pieces of the puzzle together takes years, decades, of hard work. And, again, it's one thing just to attribute all of the known crimes to one person, but it's quite another thing to link those known crimes to a nameless, faceless person who last struck in 1986 and might be dead and untraceable as far as anyone knows. And if connecting the dots in this convoluted case was so easy to do, as the writer seems to suggest, DeAngelo would have been dubbed 'The Night Stalker' years before Richard Ramirez ever set foot in California, right?


So, yeah I guess I did read the article a bit differently than you did, Gussified, but -- right or wrong -- that's what I got out of it. I think the other thing that bugged me about the writer is that it wasn't a parking ticket that led to identifying Berkowitz as The Son Of Sam. Though Berkowitz did get a parking ticket on one of the nights he struck, it was a tip phoned in to L.E. from (I think!) one of Berkowitz' neighbors that turned police on to him.

Also... I wonder if GSK was still out there living a free life under the radar, would this writer be praising L.E. for doing everything they could have to this point to identify The Golden State Killer? Probably. lol

Also No. II, "voluntering" is spelled with two e's, not one. :D

The End. :)
 
Wing Ding said:
Yes, you thought they (L.E.) did a pretty good job. And I agree. I think L.E. did a very good job, too. But I'm not sure that's what the author believes.

He seems to think L.E. dropped the ball at every opportunity and that linking 100+ ransackings in one county, 40+ rapes (and two murders) 200 miles away in a second county and ten additional murders 250-350 miles away in a third and fourth county is basic detective work. How ridiculous. Putting all the pieces of the puzzle together takes years, decades, of hard work. And, again, it's one thing just to attribute all of the known crimes to one person, but it's quite another thing to link those known crimes to a nameless, faceless person who last struck in 1986 and might be dead and untraceable as far as anyone knows. And if connecting the dots in this convoluted case was so easy to do, as the writer seems to suggest, DeAngelo would have been dubbed 'The Night Stalker' years before Richard Ramirez ever set foot in California, right?


So, yeah I guess I did read the article a bit differently than you did, Gussified, but -- right or wrong -- that's what I got out of it. I think the other thing that bugged me about the writer is that it wasn't a parking ticket that led to identifying Berkowitz as The Son Of Sam. Though Berkowitz did get a parking ticket on one of the nights he struck, it was a tip phoned in to L.E. from (I think!) one of Berkowitz' neighbors that turned police on to him.

Also... I wonder if GSK was still out there living a free life under the radar, would this writer be praising L.E. for doing everything they could have to this point to identify The Golden State Killer? Probably. lol

Also No. II, "voluntering" is spelled with two e's, not one. :D

The End. :)
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Boy, I didn’t read it the same way at all. And FTR, when I said “I thought they did a pretty good job”, I was referring to the author of the article. I did not get the impression that the author was slamming LE, but rather trying to explain all the complicating factors they dealt with back in the day. But I appreciate that you actually read the article this time. Guess we just disagree.
 
Wing Ding said:
Ya know, at this point I'm not sure I even care what is sealed. Keep things sealed until after the trial. We will find out enough details about GSK through the trial. If we learn more about him after the trial by unsealing packets afterwards, even better. Just stream the trial online or cover it on HLN. That's all I want out of life.
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Correct me if I am wrong. He hasn't entered a plea so we don't know if there will even be a trial. If he pleads guilty there will be a few short hearings on facts, without details, for the judge to determine a sentence per the law.
 
Gussified said:
Boy, I didn’t read it the same way at all. And FTR, when I said “I thought they did a pretty good job”, I was referring to the author of the article. I did not get the impression that the author was slamming LE, but rather trying to explain all the complicating factors they dealt with back in the day. But I appreciate that you actually read the article this time. Guess we just disagree.
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Actually, I don't believe the writer is slamming L.E. over any perceived blunders or oversights in putting their case together. I do, however, think he is unneccesarily critical of them for not doing enough. If anyone is doing any slamming, it's probably me of the writer -- probably also "unneccesarily".

I mean a lot happened in the evolution of the investigation of this case. Sometimes cases just take a while to solve, and it's no one's fault considering L.E. was chasing a nameless, faceless ghost. And short of L.E. investigating every crime in the state of California from 1975 through 1986 to see if they were related to ransackings in Visalia, rapes in Sacto, and ten murders in Southern California, I think L.E. did the best they could. That's the perspective I'm coming from. But I'm also reading the article having already watched nine, one-hour television programs on GSK, so I agree with what makes sense to me in the article, and I dismiss what doesn't.

To be fair, though... listening to Paul Holes theories about GSK throughout those nine hours of programming was wishy washy or unsure at times. Even he didn't know what to believe or not believe. But I think he considered just about every possible scenario except that the VR and the EAR were the same person. Ironically, he dismissed that possibility because the builds of both men were said to be too different. That's fair enough on the surface, but when you see a photograph of Paul Holes from the 90's, and see him on tv, even he looks like he's lost some weight and looks to be in better physical shape than he was 20 years ago. And that's with tv adding ten pounds so he's probably even thinner in person. So why Holes dismissed VR and EAR as being the same person because of body type is a head-scratcher when he, himself, transformed into a more svelte body type. I mean if his physical built can change, why not GSK's? Well, anyway...
 
heartgoesout said:
Correct me if I am wrong. He hasn't entered a plea so we don't know if there will even be a trial. If he pleads guilty there will be a few short hearings on facts, without details, for the judge to determine a sentence per the law.
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Well, you're right of course. I just assumed there will be a trial and here's why:

I can't help think a death sentence is all but certain in this case, and DeAngelo seems like the kind of guy to make the state of California work for it.

I get the feeling DeAngelo is the sort of person who will defiantly force the State of California to prove their case against him. If not, will he plead guilty to avoid dragging his family and relatives' names through the mud by prosecutors exposing all the sorted details they have on him (like browser history for one)?

I don't think the prosecution would accept a guilty plea in lieu of life w/o parole, and I can't imagine DeAngelo would ever plead guilty knowing he would be facing the death penalty. The death penalty was designed for people just like DeAngelo. Let's get him sentenced, and move his name to the top of the list.
 
I found the most interesting part was that they were reticent in sharing info because of the suspicion the perp was a cop. They were worried they might be sharing with the guy himself.

Gussified said:
Boy, I didn’t read it the same way at all. And FTR, when I said “I thought they did a pretty good job”, I was referring to the author of the article. I did not get the impression that the author was slamming LE, but rather trying to explain all the complicating factors they dealt with back in the day. But I appreciate that you actually read the article this time. Guess we just disagree.
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Thursday, May 31st:
*Motions Hearing continues (@ 1:35pm PT) - CA - Katie (20) & Brian (21) Maggiore (Feb. 2, 1978 in Rancho Cordova) - Joseph James DeAngelo (72/32 @ time of crime) (East Area Rapist/Golden State Killer) - arrested (4/24/18) & formally charged (4/27/18) with 2 counts of 1st degree murder with special enhancements for burglary and rape; did not enter plea. Sacramento County. Relative's (Great-great-great grandfather’s) DNA from genealogy website (GEDMatch) cracked East Area Rapist case, DA's office says.
4/27/18 Update: charged in Ventura County of 2 counts of 1st degree murder with special circumstances for being a double homicide in the deaths of Charlene (33) & Lyman (43) Smith on 3/13/80 in Ventura.
5/10/18 Update: charged in Santa Barbara County of the 4 counts of 1st degree murder with special circumstances, where investigators believe he killed Dr. Robert Offerman (44) & Dr. Debra Alexandria Manning (35) in December 30, 1979 and Cheri Domingo (35) & Gregory Sanchez (27) in July 27, 1981, all in Goleta. Each carries a possible sentence of death or life in prison without parole.
5/11/18 Update: charged in Orange County with 4 counts of 1st degree murder with special circumstances. Patrice Harrington (28) & Keith Harrington (24) on 8/19/80 in Dana Point, Manuela Witthuhn (21) on 2/26/81 in Irvine & Janelle Lisa Cruz (18) on 5/4/86 in Irvine.
Total 12 counts of 1st degree murder.
5/29/18 Update: East Area rapist case will be continued to Thursday (5/31) afternoon @ 1:35pm. No decision yet on whether judge will unseal warrants. Judge expects to release some documents in East Area Rapist case by Friday, with redactions. JJD did not enter a plea on Wednesday 5/29.
His mayhem touched 10 counties, and he was variously called the East Area Rapist, Original Nightstalker, Diamond Knot Killer and Visalia Ransacker before authorities discovered that the various strings of crimes appeared to be the work of a single man. responsible for 12 homicides, 45 rapes, and 120 home burglaries between 1974 and 1986, when his crimes appeared to mysteriously end. It's also believed the serial killer also possibly killed Claude Snelling (45) on 9/11/75 in Visalia, Tulare County. In 2001, DNA evidence linked the East Area Rapist and Original Nightstalker cases.
5/2/18: A motion hearing involving a sealed search warrant in the case. The motion asks the court to enjoin the district attorney from taking further DNA, major case prints or body photographs from DeAngelo. Dianne Howard, the attorney of 72-year-old Joseph James DeAngelo, filed a motion to stop a search warrant. In response, the District Attorney filed an opposition to the defense’s motion. The judge pushed the hearing back to Thursday (5/3/18) morning to have more time to review each motion.
5/4/18: Judge denies defense motion. Rules search warrant seeking photos, DNA of JJD will proceed.
5/14/18: DeAngelo's last hearing was on 5/29 for the judge to decide on various motions from the defense, including one to close coverage of the hearings to the media. DeAngelo's lawyers also are fighting to keep the arrest warrant and search warrant affidavits sealed, despite a motion from The Sacramento Bee and numerous other news organizations to release them. JJD might enter a plea at today’s (5/29) hearing.
5/29/18: Judge will decide on 5/31/18 regarding release of some documents.
 
Niner said:
Thursday, May 31st:
*Motions Hearing continues (@ 1:35pm PT) - CA - Katie (20) & Brian (21) Maggiore (Feb. 2, 1978 in Rancho Cordova) - Joseph James DeAngelo (72/32 @ time of crime) (East Area Rapist/Golden State Killer) - arrested (4/24/18) & formally charged (4/27/18) with 2 counts of 1st degree murder with special enhancements for burglary and rape; did not enter plea. Sacramento County. Relative's (Great-great-great grandfather’s) DNA from genealogy website (GEDMatch) cracked East Area Rapist case, DA's office says.
4/27/18 Update: charged in Ventura County of 2 counts of 1st degree murder with special circumstances for being a double homicide in the deaths of Charlene (33) & Lyman (43) Smith on 3/13/80 in Ventura.
5/10/18 Update: charged in Santa Barbara County of the 4 counts of 1st degree murder with special circumstances, where investigators believe he killed Dr. Robert Offerman (44) & Dr. Debra Alexandria Manning (35) in December 30, 1979 and Cheri Domingo (35) & Gregory Sanchez (27) in July 27, 1981, all in Goleta. Each carries a possible sentence of death or life in prison without parole.
5/11/18 Update: charged in Orange County with 4 counts of 1st degree murder with special circumstances. Patrice Harrington (28) & Keith Harrington (24) on 8/19/80 in Dana Point, Manuela Witthuhn (21) on 2/26/81 in Irvine & Janelle Lisa Cruz (18) on 5/4/86 in Irvine.
Total 12 counts of 1st degree murder.
5/29/18 Update: East Area rapist case will be continued to Thursday (5/31) afternoon @ 1:35pm. No decision yet on whether judge will unseal warrants. Judge expects to release some documents in East Area Rapist case by Friday, with redactions. JJD did not enter a plea on Wednesday 5/29.
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I'm not that excited for the search and arrest warrants, I doubt there will be a ton of new information we don't already know/are assuming. I do think this will give us a flavor for how this judge plans to approach the case. If he says yes to unsealing the warrants, what else is he willing to say yes to?!
 
Hi...just wondered if there has been any investigation into the times when the victims claim they heard a second voice, or him talking to someone (likely himself, but the couldn't be sure)?
 
Charlie Pool said:
Hi...just wondered if there has been any investigation into the times when the victims claim they heard a second voice, or him talking to someone (likely himself, but the couldn't be sure)?
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Welcome to Ws Charlie Pool!
Also looking forward to details about the other voices victims believed they heard, if there was in fact someone else there oh boy, that would certainly open a can of worms!
 
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ugh said:
Ooops, just realized this was from Tuesday!!! :oops:

Judge in Golden State Killer case expects to release some warrant details Friday

Excerpt:
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Shiressleuth said:
Sam Stanton (@StantonSam) on Twitter

No public hearing today.

Sam Stanton @StantonSamReplying to @itsjonrosenthalNo public hearing today. Lawyers are in judge’s chambers going over redactions in arrest and search warrants. Court expects to be able to release something Friday.3:28 pm - 31 May 2018 from Sacramento, CA
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thanks for the updates!

this will be interesting to see what is released
 
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