CA - Elizabeth Holmes (Theranos) Wire Fraud

[RickshawFan]

I love Dr. Gardner.

Me, too. I'd like to roll back time and sign up for her class. I'm sure I'd be very challenged and humbled, put through the wringer, but much the better for it. She teaches about the last subject at a university I'd ever want to take, but perhaps I'd get around my inclination to run as far away as possible from health entrepreneurship and corporate takeovers.
That's what a woman's genuine deep voice sounds like...

 

[RickshawFan]

She looks a bit rough around the edges. Most likely intentional.
ETA: seems like she is manipulatively looking the jurors in the eye. She is a master manipulator. Definitely trying to appear vulnerable.

Anyone know what her comments outside the courtroom were?

Do you have a photo of her looking scraggly? You mean, like her deposition video? Was there video of her in the courtroom? Was she wearing a mask? This is definitely something to talk about.

 

[RickshawFan]

That could be a basic description of the way most medical blood tests work. And it’s not new or groundbreaking.
I have some experience working in medical labs. Essentially everyone in that field saw that she was a fraud. And the fact that none of her investors came from that field, which has stringent regulatory standards, was a big red flag.

I'm not sure I agree, because a "chemistry is performed" is word salad. What does it even mean? And she's in a science field. That's like saying a "physics is performed" or a "biology is performed". Surely, a basic explanation would be more likely to be phrased something like: "A substance called a reagent is added to the sample. This causes a chemical reaction". The problem with any of this, though, is she was speaking to a room full of scientists. A basic description of a lab test is far off the mark for that crowd. IMO.

 

[Seattle1]

I started this thread for the prosecution of EH over 2 years ago because I'm a scientist that understood and believed that Theranos' concept was possible -- using a small drop of blood to accurately perform a comprehensive test menu -- challenging the standard, archaic diagnostic company's cost and delivery time.

Take note using a small drop of blood to run accurate tests should not be confused with using a finger prick of blood to perform multiple panels accurately.

EH and SB-- each facing multiple counts of wire fraud and conspiracy to commit wire fraud are very likely headed to prison for executing this concept (EH's vision) in an irresponsible manner.

I'm pleased that GENALYTE for one came forward to carry the torch with "Merlin" and "Maverick." Like Theranos, but it works -- both scientifically and ethically.

GENALYTE is delivering accurate results from a small drop of blood to perform accurate tests. And the "Maverick" (Immunoassay Analyzer) is using fingersticks!

They're featured in The 'Valley of Hype' behind the rise and fall of Theranos starts at about the 52:00 min mark.

'Valley of Hype' behind the rise and fall of Theranos [documentary]
8/31/2021

 

[CrimeDawg123]

I started this thread for the prosecution of EH over 2 years ago because I'm a scientist that understood and believed that Theranos' concept was possible -- using a small drop of blood to accurately perform a comprehensive test menu -- challenging the standard, archaic diagnostic company's cost and delivery time.

Take note using a small drop of blood to run accurate tests should not be confused with using a finger prick of blood to perform multiple panels accurately.

EH and SB-- each facing multiple counts of wire fraud and conspiracy to commit wire fraud are very likely headed to prison for executing this concept (EH's vision) in an irresponsible manner.

I'm pleased that GENALYTE for one came forward to carry the torch with "Merlin" and "Maverick." Like Theranos, but it works -- both scientifically and ethically.

GENALYTE is delivering accurate results from a small drop of blood to perform accurate tests. And the "Maverick" (Immunoassay Analyzer) is using fingersticks!

They're featured in The 'Valley of Hype' behind the rise and fall of Theranos starts at about the 52:00 min mark.

'Valley of Hype' behind the rise and fall of Theranos [documentary]
8/31/2021

I really appreciate your perspective and postings on this. Thanks!

 

[dancemom]

I'm not sure I agree, because a "chemistry is performed" is word salad. What does it even mean? And she's in a science field. That's like saying a "physics is performed" or a "biology is performed". Surely, a basic explanation would be more likely to be phrased something like: "A substance called a reagent is added to the sample. This causes a chemical reaction". The problem with any of this, though, is she was speaking to a room full of scientists. A basic description of a lab test is far off the mark for that crowd. IMO.

Totally agree that it’s word salad. But many lab tests involve adding a reagent that will interact with the chemical that you’re trying to measure in a way that causes a detectable change (enzymatic color change, chemiluminescence, change in electrical impedance, etc) that is measured by an analyzer. It’s not a new or groundbreaking idea. Having worked in clinical lab science, I never understood exactly how anything she was saying was so compelling to investors. Other than image, I’m not sure I see what drew people in.

 

[meanmaryjean]

Totally agree that it’s word salad. But many lab tests involve adding a reagent that will interact with the chemical that you’re trying to measure in a way that causes a detectable change (enzymatic color change, chemiluminescence, change in electrical impedance, etc) that is measured by an analyzer. It’s not a new or groundbreaking idea. Having worked in clinical lab science, I never understood exactly how anything she was saying was so compelling to investors. Other than image, I’m not sure I see what drew people in.

It wasn't what she was saying (because it makes no sense) but how she said it with conviction and that story about helping people and being afraid of needles.

PS: Even a tiny amount of blood for her bogus device has to be obtained by a sharp object piercing the skin (aka- a needle of some sort) so even that part was glossed over.

 

[Pesto919]

I'm not a scientist but am a cynical killjoy and people like EH are why I'm okay with that.

You all express what I've thought about this case so thoroughly. (but I'll still add my comments lol)

I'm rereading Bad Blood and had forgotten how MANY people had tried to warn people about Theranos and were ignored.

The first thing I'd ask is, "How did a person with no education/training come up with a process that experts hadn't?" Did people believe some evil "medical industrial complex" is hiding technology from the public that would make blood draws as easy and painless as a butterfly kiss?

If this had just been a ponzi scheme taking advantage of greedy people it wouldn't be interesting. She manipulated them on many levels. Her investors and champions imagined themselves as heroes, saving lives, helping a women in a male dominated industry (and they'd also make a lot of money.)

 

[RickshawFan]

Totally agree that it’s word salad. But many lab tests involve adding a reagent that will interact with the chemical that you’re trying to measure in a way that causes a detectable change (enzymatic color change, chemiluminescence, change in electrical impedance, etc) that is measured by an analyzer. It’s not a new or groundbreaking idea. Having worked in clinical lab science, I never understood exactly how anything she was saying was so compelling to investors. Other than image, I’m not sure I see what drew people in.

This is exactly how I understood the basic chemistry works.
All of a sudden, too, I realized what you meant in your post ^^^^. I missed part of it the first time. You meant something like...."she was just saying something gosh-ly basic. I don't understand why anyone would be giving her the time of day as inventing something radical." Did I understand your point correctly now?
Theranos was even using conventional, commercially-available, ubiquitous machines from e.g. Siemens. So, no, nothing new here except in her fantasy world.

 

[LinasK]

It wasn't what she was saying (because it makes no sense) but how she said it with conviction and that story about helping people and being afraid of needles.

PS: Even a tiny amount of blood for her bogus device has to be obtained by a sharp object piercing the skin (aka- a needle of some sort) so even that part was glossed over.

Exactly! So how does her machine help people with fear of needles because finger pricks still involve needles, and they are painful! I had Gestational Diabetes and had to do frequent finger pricks.

 

[RickshawFan]

Exactly! So how does her machine help people with fear of needles because finger pricks still involve needles, and they are painful! I had Gestational Diabetes and had to do frequent finger pricks.

I agree. I'm much more afraid of finger sticks than full on draws.
When I was in college, for baby bio (i.e. 101), we had to stick our fingers to draw a drop of blood. I was the ONLY one in that entire class who would do it. It was hard for me, too. I had to steel myself and screw up my courage. Who knew we'd have a multibillion $$$ case revolving around this fear.

Although I do know some people have a difficult time with needles, I also feel as though EH keeps ginning up the fear. She goes on and on about how people are so afraid of needles, or the tests are so inaccessible, people aren't getting diagnosed in timely fashion. An example she gives is her uncle who died of cancer. It doesn't seem as though timeliness of a blood draw, or fear of a needle stick, would result in someone dying of cancer and somehow herself not able to be with him during his dying days. Her point might make sense with an infectious disease, or say, heart attack markers, but cancer that isn't immediately terminal? I always felt this was VERY odd.
The fear manipulation makes me very angry. At the very least, people who have a hard time with needles shouldn't have their anxieties provoked by someone hell bent on making the fear colossal and universal so she can make billions.

 

[RickshawFan]

I love Dr. Gardner.

I was trying to figure out why this is for myself. I think because she's powerful and not afraid. She uses her brains and lets them take her in interesting directions. She's very firm about where she stands, and she communicates it. Many women don't get to do this.
It interests me that she can be super brainy and not geeky. IME this is very difficult to do. It's also difficult not to sound like you're talking down to people when you're in brainy mode. There's a kind of sexism that doesn't appreciate women in that mode, too.

 

[RickshawFan]

To me, I interpreted that statement of something like the chemical reaction would generate an electrical charge which would be translated into some kind of biological results. That makes zero sense from a Chemistry perspective. Who does the translating? For what tests? It was so vague.

IMO EH isn't capable of articulating the process the way you have. Her word salad seems to come from not understanding it, like at all. I wonder if she ever took Basic Chemistry at the college level? Organic? Or what science she took to educate herself WHILE she was running Theranos?

 

[Luna20]

Do you have a photo of her looking scraggly? You mean, like her deposition video? Was there video of her in the courtroom? Was she wearing a mask? This is definitely something to talk about.

It was her entrance and exit video outside of the courtroom. It’s on the CBS link that @Seattle posted. She is clearly appealing for sympathy.

 

[Luna20]

Do you have a photo of her looking scraggly? You mean, like her deposition video? Was there video of her in the courtroom? Was she wearing a mask? This is definitely something to talk about.

Forgot to say yes she was wearing a mask and she was talking with it on. She answered a few questions from reporters but the audio wasn’t clear.

 

[RickshawFan]

Speaking of needles… Jurors in this case were required to be vaccinated in order to be selected.

 

[meanmaryjean]

It was her entrance and exit video outside of the courtroom. It’s on the CBS link that @Seattle posted. She is clearly appealing for sympathy.

Not an EH apologist- but let's remember she DID just have a baby a few weeks ago.

 

[RickshawFan]

Not an EH apologist- but let's remember she DID just have a baby a few weeks ago.

Flagrant "Yes, but..." here: She did the messy look at the depositions a few years ago, so she's tried this schtick before. Hopefully, the prosecutors bring in photos/video of those sessions. At any rate, the messy look didn't do her any favors then (it's not as though prosecutors backed off), and hopefully not now.
What do you think the effect would be if the feds used a visibly pregnant attorney in this trial?

 

[Pet woman]

Not an EH apologist- but let's remember she DID just have a baby a few weeks ago.

I’ve been delving into more info about Theranos and the dynamic duo of Elizabeth and Sunny. A refresher course, if you will. I have a question for my fellow sleuthers, do you think with all the government evidence, that jurors won’t see through Elizabeth’s lies and deception? I’m looking forward to seeing the prosecution’s witness list. There are well known investors, who lost millions of dollars to this fraud. Not to mention, the whistleblowers, former employees, Walgreens, SEC regulators. and FDA personnel. Oh to be a fly on the wall, in the courtroom. John Carreyrou, author of “Bad Blood”, will be a witness or a reporter at the trial. Stand by for fireworks, I haven’t followed any trials recently, however, I’m all in for this one.

 

[Luna20]

Not an EH apologist- but let's remember she DID just have a baby a few weeks ago.

I hear ya, I have given birth, but she can brush her hair and put lipstick on even if the baby was a week old. It was so obvious it was obvious.