CA CA - Elizabeth Short 'Black Dahlia', 22, Los Angeles, 15 Jan 1947

[2Hip2BSquare]

The Hodel connection makes a certain grim sense (per his son's book and also and especially 'Exquisite Corpse: Surrealism and the Black Dahlia") especially if one considers certain works by Duchamp and Man Ray. Not sure it's necessary to bring half of Hollywood to the party though.

I just find it strange how Arthur Miller dated Marilyn and he had hung with Huston and Hodel. Tis all. I tend to spin off into oblivion with ideas. Lol me is sorry

 

[claudicici]

oh,I loved your "spin off",food for thought.....keep on going

 

[wfgodot]

I just find it strange how Arthur Miller dated Marilyn and he had hung with Huston and Hodel. Tis all. I tend to spin off into oblivion with ideas. Lol me is sorry

Huston certainly appears to have been mean and wreckless enough to enter many a dicey scene. But Arthur Miller? True, he did write for Hollyweird but his name stands a bit higher in the annals of good than does Huston's (or Hodel's et al.).

 

[STANDREID]

There was a report the Elizabeth Short and Marilyn Monroe were acquaintances but I don't think that was ever substantiated.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Huston certainly appears to have been mean and wreckless enough to enter many a dicey scene. But Arthur Miller? True, he did write for Hollyweird but his name stands a bit higher in the annals of good than does Huston's (or Hodel's et al.).

Arthur Miller completely USED Marilyn to get even more fame/recognition. He was an artist with much depth, but also had a logic and cold demeanor that always made me feel "icky". Especially how he manipulated Marilyn. She went into such a grand depression - started dating Joe D. again after.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

For the record, thanks guys for actually responding to my assertions and teaching me about this case. You all are so well informed! Just bringing some ideas on here. Hope I don't offend

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

I always found it puzzling that Marilyn had a doctor around who was injecting her intravenously with medication. I've always wonders if this doctor was Hodel?

Please note where I added *** below to bypass all tertiary info.

"
The director of The Misfits was to be John Huston, who had directed Monroe in The Asphalt Jungle, before she earned her reputation for awkwardness; he had no qualms at the idea of working with her again. They began to assemble a cast that might seem to guarantee success: Clark Gable, Monroe's childhood hero, Montgomery Clift, Eli Wallach and Thelma Ritter.

The ironies surrounding the shooting of the film were soon to become apparent. It was set in Reno, which boasted that it had processed 5,000 divorces the previous year. For Miller, it brought back memories of another failed marriage. Miller and Monroe rarely spoke to one another on location. Huston took him aside and urged him to try to get his wife off drugs or he would feel guilty as long as he lived, only subsequently realising the extent to which Miller had already exhausted himself in the effort to help her. On one occasion Monroe abandoned him in the desert where they were filming rather than allow him in her car. He was rescued by Huston.

In 1981, Miller began work on a brief memoir entitled Reno - '60 in which he recalled something of these events. He remembered, in particular, a telephone conversation with Paula Strasberg on the evening of one of the Nixon-Kennedy debates in the run-up to the presidential election. The phone rang in his room. She had called, she said, to tell him that Monroe was asleep. He asked whether Strasberg was with her at all times because he had been told Monroe had been seen wandering around the hotel, naked. (She had permanently moved out of their room.) After a few moments Strasberg admitted that Monroe had in fact been in the hotel elevator, travelling up and down, in the nude. His response was to settle down with a bottle of whisky. It was a new experience to be drinking alone.

*****One day Miller was led into Monroe's bedroom by Strasberg in time to see a doctor looking for a vein in which to inject the sedative amytal. *****

<modsnip>

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...tract-from-Christopher-Bigsbys-biography.html

 

[wfgodot]

Arthur Miller completely USED Marilyn to get even more fame/recognition. He was an artist with much depth, but also had a logic and cold demeanor that always made me feel "icky". Especially how he manipulated Marilyn. She went into such a grand depression - started dating Joe D. again after.

By the time Miller married MM he'd already written three great plays - All My Sons, Death of a Salesman, and The Crucible.

He scarcely needed the entree into Hollywood scriptwriting that MM would allegedly have provided - and being recommended by her would actually have been detrimental as she was notoriously unreliable herself.

Anyway - Arthur Miller Dahlia connection? No.

(Also, I think it's generally assumed that Elizabeth Short was higher in the echelon of Hollywood types than she was. She was a wannabe whose looks and talent level duplicated those of thousands, and was never an important character in even the seamier side of that particular milieu.)

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Latest reports in the encyclopedia of criminology note 5 people involved in ES death. It is now theorized that ES was murdered bc she became pregnant with the child of the LA Times Publisher and was making his life as a taken man. "complicated".

An abortion doctor along with Hodel are theorized to have been two of the suspects



Ive often wondered if this supposed abortion/reproductive doc that worked on ES during the murder could have treated Marilyn in his private practice and consequentially if he could have referred MM to Hodel.

most of MMs marriage to AM was to help them
Both escape the McCarthy "witch hunts".


Both doctors in ES death were tied to the mob (bugsy Siegel) if this is true, which brings into play my theory that possibly Marilyn could have become pregnant with Someone's child and didn't want to give it up or threatened blackmail- and if she wouldn't give it up a hit would be called on her just like a hit was called on ES? the same avenues/contacts would be used to do so?

I don't think ES was fabulous, but she wished to be so much that she attempted to manipulate her way into becoming a part of the elite with her pregnancy and the elite taught her else wise. IMO

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Another victim's of Hodel's asserting that in 1958 she went to him for "female" problems and he raped her when she was working in Asia:

" ANOTHER SAD AND TRAGIC STORY


Los Angeles, California

I recently received an e-mail from Alan Robison, who informs me he is the son of one of Dr. George Hill Hodel's former victims. The crime reportedly occurred in Manila, Philippines circa 1958.

Here then is Alan's telling of the crime, in his, and his mother's own words. (I have omitted certain parts of his narrative, which are not directly related to the actual crime, and which I believe should remain private and confidential.)

Dear Mr. Hodel,

My name is Alan Robison. I am 61 years old. My mother's name was Bess Robison. She died in 2009. My father died in 2012. I had been caring for him for fifteen months and he was suffering from five separate diseases.

<modsnip>

Ken Alan Robison

See below obituary describing Bess Robison's life of service as a missionary"

http://207.56.179.67/steve_hodel/2013/03/victims-son-discloses-1958-man-1.html

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

On more thing linking the characters of Hodel and Monroe together:

Defense lawyer Jerry Giesler who represented Marilyn Monroe, Dr. Hodel, and Bugsy!

He represented Hodel on an incest charge and Hodel paid off the DA to get an acquittal in the case. All evidence of incest was therefor "lost" upon receipt of his payment.

Jerry Giesler died on New Years Day, the same day as Marilyn.

How interesting what the doctor was injecting into Marilyn intravenously that day was a barbiturate - and a barbituate overdose was her overall demise?

How interesting how Hodel was known to drug his victims to incapacitation before raping/assaulting/killing them? (Given most of his living victims accounts)

How interesting how when Marilyn and Arthur began having issues with having children (2 miscarriages) and things became even more complex, it was during the time they shot The Misfits with Hodel's buddy director Huston? Huston told Miller that Marilyn needed to "get off the drugs". I'm
Assuming at this point before shooting the Misfits she had already met her doctor for her "female" and childbirth issues....

 

[EmmaliLucia]

But it's been disproved through the autopsy reports that Elizabeth Short was pregnant.

I think that Huston and Hodel are sketchy little men but I don't think that Elizabeth Short and Marilyn Monroe's deaths were related in such a direct way. I mean, Marilyn could have been killed because she was pregnant, but there was no signs of pregnancy or recent abortion on Elizabeth.

 

[STANDREID]

Regarding 6 degrees of separation, John Huston's father, Walter Huston, appeared in a stage play with Richard Mansfield who some suspected of being Jack the Ripper.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

But it's been disproved through the autopsy reports that Elizabeth Short was pregnant.

I think that Huston and Hodel are sketchy little men but I don't think that Elizabeth Short and Marilyn Monroe's deaths were related in such a direct way. I mean, Marilyn could have been killed because she was pregnant, but there was no signs of pregnancy or recent abortion on Elizabeth.

Thing is I wouldn't really trust anyone associated with the state or LE at that point as they often took bribes to let criminals off the hook and to set up false CODs.

It's pretty evil here. Very corrupt. it's all about blackmail, money, and reputation. There's little character to find even today.

But I do know what you are speaking of with the Black Dahlia not having been pregnant, but I (imho) wouldn't take the coroners word for it. It was such a compounded, politically influenced crime that it was destined to be botched from the get go. IMO.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Regarding 6 degrees of separation, John Huston's father, Walter Huston, appeared in a stage play with Richard Mansfield who some suspected of being Jack the Ripper.

Wow that is pretty friggin crazy. Am reading about it now! Thanks for this

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

The only record of autopsy I can find (besides pictures) are the portions dictated by the coroner in court to the Jury. The details of her autopsy were "lost". All we can go by is that court transcript which was limited and did not even go into great detail about sexual trauma. Her abdomen had been opened up and filled with grass and excrement. Who knows if her reproductive organs were even in there anymore.

Many coroner and police records were "lost" during this time in LA legal history. Tons of corruption.

 

[Boomeroreo]

Be warned about which Black Dahlia book you read. One of them has the autopsy photos in it. Freaked me out so bad, I slept with the lights on for three weeks!

The book itself seemed like a Stephen King book. I passed it to my friend to read it and she said OMG, NO WAY, that was her Exact words and handed it back to me and said he didn't do it and I don't what to believe, I am still sorting out this case. When I found out about Elizabeth Short was in my Criminal Justice class, when our Prof. said I want you all to do a criminal case on Elizabeth Short and I'm still figuring it out, but I got 100% on the 36 page essay I wrote and when I saw the pictures in class and the prof said if anyone throws up in here has to leave. Well needless to say half of the class end up leaving and there was only a few of us in class.

 

[Boomeroreo]

I found this new article on the Black Dahlia, it's a haunting mystery and one I'd love to see solved!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2102-2223129,00.html

The Black Dahlia case (“a cold, cold case”, says the author) is one of the most notorious unsolved murders of modern times. Apart from her pulp-fiction moniker, it was the B-movie star looks of the victim and the state of her corpse that caught the popular imagination. She had been killed by blows to the head, probably from a pistol-whipping, and by deep incisions from her mouth up to each ear. If that had been all, even her nickname would not have been enough to guarantee her posthumous fame. But it was not all. Her body had been severed in two, drained of blood and washed, before being dumped, with half of the torso placed above and alongside the other half.

Immediately, the unknown culprit was dubbed a “werewolf fiend”, a vicious, depraved individual who might well strike again. Yet this was no ordinary rage killing and the victim had not been sexually assaulted. Because the spinal cord had been severed at the optimum point for the sake of ease, between the second and third vertebrae, it was suspected that the murderer was medically trained. Though it was never disclosed at the time, illegal abortionists were among those investigated.

The police had to deal with numerous “confessing Sams” and anonymous hoaxers. But there was a “control question” they could ask, something about the corpse which could help them eliminate attention-seeking would-be suspects. I shan’t spoil the unfolding pleasure of the book by revealing this secret, knowledge of which emerged only when some Los Angeles Police Department files were made public after 50 years.

More at link.
Old Broad

Or a Vampire

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Former LAPD detective claims to have new evidence his own surgeon FATHER was the Black Dahlia murderer


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...THER-Black-Dahlia-murderer.html#ixzz2ctiDEbtl

 

[Ausgirl]

Despite a lot of reading and sleuthing some other really heinous cold case crimes here without a shred of trouble, I find it hard to even talk about this one.

I have not seen another crime where the victim's body was so incredibly demeaned and defiled, except for Mary Kelly's murder by the Ripper. That alone compares to what happened to poor Elizabeth Short.

In fact, I see a lot of similarities between those two crimes, in the insane level of contempt shown in the damage inflicted, as well as the posing of the bodies. (ie, they were meant to be found, and meant to appall and shock whoever found them to the nth degree, and I believe left as a very clear illustration of the killer's opinion of his victims). Both Mary Kelly and the Dahlia were "monuments" of opinion left by their killers.

And, as with the Ripper, I firmly believe that there is no way Elizabeth's killer did not demonstrate a marked and long-term psychopathy regarding women in general. He despised them with a passion, and could not have hidden it, I truly believe that. His hatred would have leaked, it would have been noticed by those who knew him, sooner or later.

So I am inclined to put Hodel right up there on the suspect list. He sure does fit the profile going on in my head.

The use of the 'Chelsea grin' made me wonder though if the killer wasn't of British origin or had spent a lot of time there. IIRC, it was used to mark prostitutes who displeased their pimps in England, as well as criminals who'd upset other criminals somehow. It's not a thing I immediately associate with Americans, but I could be way off track..