CA - Elliot Rodger kills 6, injures 13 in Isla Vista, Near UC Santa Barbara, #1

[HMSHood]

I wonder if there are any handwriting from Elliot Rodger. I would be interested in seeing his handwriting.

 

[jjenny]

We may not be able to profile rampage killers, but they share common characteristics. They are often injustice collectors or grudge holder. I have seen non-rampage killers who are injustice collectors as well.

This one seem to have been both the injustice collector and grudge holder.
Taking revenge on society in which he didn't fit.

 

[BigCat]

Repectfully, you are. If you look at the parents, when he was a minor they could make those choses (placement - which they did special settings).

When he became an adult the parents cant force him to live anywhere. Its the law. MOm and Dad could bring him to us. When he is an adult he cant be forced (unless danger) to therapy one time per week.

IN his writings he described , if I recall correctly, mom having concerns about him moving away, but its the law

and if mom and dad come forward we are going to see pained , frustrated caring people, who ran into a system wherein resources are scarce.

I firmly believe, that he was as high functioning as he was (able to dress, cook,etc) because his parents were there.

If you took the same child, and he was raised in a family making 40000 a year, that beleived mental illiness was BS would have had a totally different individual.

A lot of it is about money sorry and education level of parents, and siblings etc

BBM

I don't understand your point. Could that individual have been any worse than a Elliot Rodger turned out to be?

 

[HMSHood]

This one seem to have been both the injustice collector and grudge holder.
Taking revenge on society in which he didn't fit.

That is what I am thinking of Elliot Rodger. Injustice collector occurs in paranoids and narcissists. They tend to be consumed by envy.

The non-rampage killers who are injustice collectors I am thinking are Yoselyn Ortega, Gertrude Baniszewski, and Lori Drew. They are angry and took revenge on a society that they felt screwed them over on other people's children.

They are all perpetual victims and feel victimized all the time.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Exactly. It would be very hard for any man to be friends with him, because as soon as this man would get a girlfriend, he would become an enemy instead of a friend.
As for girls, instead of trying to approach them, he appears to have just wanted for them to chaise after him. And when they didn't, he would fly into a rage. He describes how he was driving, saw two females, decided they didn't pay attention to him, he drove around and threw his coffee drink at them.
He was even jealous of his little half brother because the boy was tall for his age, while he himself was short.
Thankfully he didn't kill the little boy.

Thing is... in his middle school years, he talked about how girls would talk to him and hug him during school hours and even then it wasn't good enough. I don't remember which event it was (it was a school dance) and I believe a girl did dance with him (an older girl if I am not mistaken).

He assaulted quite a few women by throwing drinks on them (and even men with them). He stalked girls both online and off. He would sit outside the sorority house and watch them. And that incident when he was trying to throw women off the ledge and the men jumped in and knocked him off the ledge. Yet... in every single incident... he was the victim.

:banghead:

 

[CARIIS]

Lots of variables here:

Was the mental health person a person on a hotline or a treating provider (knew his illiness)

Timings did they get there in time?

I can call on you , but if LE gets there and you clearly deny any intent to harm yourself or others, are not dirty, and not talking to walls, appear composed and oriented, ( and to lay people the flatness of the illiness itself would make LE think all ok ( same thing in our society - unless one is running around naked, screaming they are god, out of control then they are not sick 98% of mental illiness is none of the above

little can be done at that time ... just the law

IF the individual has the capacity to understand the quesiton kill self after others and answer in a orderly manner (deny homicidal or sucidal ideation or plans ) cant do it

IF they answer yes to either ( dont know if LE enforcement would know to do this) but clinically if one would answer yes, then you evaluate further.

When would you kill yourself?

How will kill yourself? Do they have access to the method they are describing - I would slash myself with drinking glasses (being silly) but IF there are no glasses in the house .... your with me I would drive my car (if they dont have a car less lethality!)

What has prevented you from killing yourself?

Clinically you would know , have they tried before? What method did they use earlier? If slash wrists (lets say) were they superficial wounds or did they display serious intent?

Has the person "threatened " before in a manipulative fashion or in a I am scared I might......

What is the diagnosis?

Clients mental health history?

Are there support systems ?

Do they live alone?

What is there substance abuse history (impulsivity)

How willing are they to make a safety contract ( if I feel x I will call etc)

Have they been medication compliant?
Did they just have a med change?

What side effects have they been reporting?

How are they managing showering, eating, etc?

History of employment?

Signifgant other in their lives?

If history of violence how long between events?

How are they sleeping?

Insight?

Talk of harming self or others been increasing lately? Sudden?

Previous law enforcement contacts?

Been hospitalized before- if so how length of stay? How many times?

Violent aggressive on the unit?

Been coming to therapy regularly?

Seem invested in treatment?

Is treatment court ordered? Forced by parents? Spouse?

What kind of trust do they have with the clinician?

HOw despondent are they? Feeling of hopelesness> Trapped? No other choice?

Family history of suicide?

Just out from hospital?

Religous shame about suicide or homicide?

Are you thinking about it more and more or less?

If they have a support system are they willing to remove hazards? How supported does the person feel ?

I could go on and on trust me Mental illiness is very very complicated , changes day to day, its just not a simple like entity, its complex, variable,etc etc remember there are no blood tests, xrays, surgery,

 

[zoey]

I wonder if there is a mix up because of what happened with his broken leg? he went to his mom's to recuperate, then to a hotel when she had to go abroad, and he refused to let anyone see him in that humiliating position, then he mentioned returning to IV and having just a cane. Maybe it was just a short term stay at assisted living, purely because of his physical injury?

ETA The only assistance mentioned (indirectly) in the manifesto are kind of socialization therapists, who meet up with ER for day or evening excursions.

I missed that part--think I was tiring of how awful life was. All I kept thinking was he was sick--glad I finished at a proper time for wine to go with the whine :blushing:

 

[Zuri]

I know he didn't take the drug - I was just pointing out that he had evidently been identified as seriously unwell to warrant such a prescription.

And re mental health professionals hands being tied - what he posted on Youtube and his writings online would surely count as evidence of him posing a danger to others? If he were my client and his parents contacted me with evidence like that, I'd be seriously swooping into action. JMO though.

And I'm not saying it is the psychiatrist's fault, btw. This is all his ER's own doing - but I guess I'm just wishing out loud that there had been more successful intervention, especially when his mental unravelling seems to be so public.:seeya:

According to his manifesto, After the police visit, he took down most of his YouTube videos and had to postpone his rampage for a month, from 4/24 to 5/24. Something prompted him to act on 5/23.

 

[jjenny]

That is what I am thinking of Elliot Rodger. Injustice collector occurs in paranoids and narcissists. They tend to be consumed by envy.

...

I think he had a lot in common with Adam Lanza. Both were loners (Lanza even more extreme) who didn't fit into society. Although Lanza destroyed his computer so we don't know what his exact motivation was.
Rodger spells it out-it was revenge on society and all the beautiful people that had it better than he did.

 

[HMSHood]

I think he had a lot in common with Adam Lanza. Both were loners (Lanza even more extreme) who didn't fit into society. Although Lanza destroyed his computer so we don't know what his exact motivation was.
Rodger spells it out-it was revenge on society and all the beautiful people that had it better than he did.

Adam Lanza is definitely an injustice collector. I think Seung-Hui Cho is more isolated than Lanza. At least Lanza is not mostly silent like Cho as Cho had a reputation for that.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Hi! New to the thread, have been following this case in the news. :seeya:

How horrific and sad this is! The guy is (or was) scary. Totally lost in his own twisted reality.




Cariis, which illness are you describing here? Sounds like a psychosis or obsession?

I think Cariis is speaking about Spectrum Disorders, i.e. this case it is a high-functioning Asperger's.

 

[song22]

What do people feel could have been done?

He didn't present himself like that crazed gunman in Colorado. He appeared normal to police who are not mental health professionals.

It appears the family tried to provide help for him. But as an adult, you cannot force treatment or meds on someone.

He kept his murderous thoughts to himself until right before he was going to act.

He was a very unpleasant person but not everyone who is so narcissistic and self absorbed is a killer.

Bill Gates considers himself to have Aspergers. Probably Einstein as well.

I do not know what else could have legally been done

We don't know, of course the extent to which other people heard him make threats or witnessed behavior that could have gotten him hospitalized. Reading the manifesto, ER says that he told his closest friend many things which really disturbed that friend. ER writes that he told his friend about the revenge and violence he wanted to commit. This could have been reported. People dismiss things like that way too easily, IMO. A person says something delusional and a lot of people just want to not be judgmental. It sounds like the step-mother was actually trying to enforce some boundaries and consequences. His stepmother and father eventually banned him from coming to their house. ER writes about this in his manifesto. There was one scene in which he describes walking right into the house and throwing a glass onto the ground in an angry confrontation with his stepmother. That could have been reported to police as a breaking and entering and violent behavior. I am a big believer in consequences for behavior. Don't make excuses or minimize! Especially when there appears to be an underlying mental health issue. Parents should be on the look-out for warning signs. After reading this manifesto, I think the parents definitely enabled their son for years and years. They did eventually try to get him help, but all along they were really catering to him and coddling him and all that just fed into his narcissism.

 

[LolaMoon08]

He never took the drug. He researched it and decided it was not for him.
Mental health professionals could only commit him if he expressed these thoughts to them. If he didn't, their hands were tied.

He did talk about all the Xanax and some other drug he had stockpiled to take the day of "Retribution" if the gunshots didn't kill him. I forget the other drug, but I remember it being one of the more popular drugs people buy off the streets. I want to say it was pain killers (he was getting them for his ankle).

I wonder who prescribed him Xanax? He was adamant that he didn't have a drinking problem, but he talked a lot about drinking! I know his first beer was handed to him at a very young age (12?) by his father and even before that he was allowed sips of beer or wine (could be a cultural thing). Xanax and alcohol is a bad mixture!

 

[gngr~snap]

Do they have 24 hour staff on board like a five star hotel and activities scheduled once a month?

Capri Apartments at Isla Vista6598 Seville Road,*Isla Vista,*CA*93117

Pricing and Floor Plans

Beds 2 beds
Baths 1.0 -1.5
Sq Ft. 769
Price $650 - $765

last updated: 1 year, 6 months ago


"Our warm and inviting apartment community is set among a peaceful residential neighborhood surrounded by every recreational activity available."

http://hotpads.com/search/listing/m...Isla-Vista-Isla-Vista-CA-93117--1s637hk15fthh

At that price I wonder.
I mean even if they raised the rent...

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com...a-barbara/1159926-capri-apartments-in-iv.html

Here is a sublet for $819 from 6/2013 she says her apartment was a single.
Hmmm

All posts are my opinion only. Sent via Tapatalk

 

[CARIIS]

Weekend?

Why are we not getting any status on the ones in hospital? Type injuries, etc etc it has been hours guys? NOthing

Price $650 - $765 In that setting it is x2 so min 1300 - his was four rooms so it would be x4
that is why it is decent!

Anyone know where he got weapons etc?

Re: He writes page after page about going out for a coffee and waiting for women to talk to him:

Folks are looking at him as normative - he did not have the skill set to socially approach= identical to wanting to fly airplanes, but never learned how, and CANT see the instruments .. its about a capability a capacity its is not a choice, it is a lacking of.............

-
One cannot expect a blind person to ski down a slope, be a surgeon, design maps, fly a hot air balloon, assemble cars, be a butcher,pave roads, build high rises, wash windows, drive a car, file, .......that is why it is called an illiness!

All mental illiness is about limitations.........................

 

[sweetcaro]

According to his manifesto, After the police visit, he took down most of his YouTube videos and had to postpone his rampage for a month, from 4/24 to 5/24. Something prompted him to act on 5/23.

He postponed it as he fell sick, which is something that never happened to him according to his own words in his manifesto. And the plan was to begin the day before the day of retribution, starting in his apartment building.

 

[Zuri]

It took me hours to read that manifesto. I, too, hope that it will help mental health professionals and LE.

The Daily Mail stated that he attended UCSB, when in fact he attended Santa Barbara Community College, but he dropped out of every class because he could not handle seeing couples in his classes. He maintained the ruse for his parents, but was, IIRC, taking some classes online.

 

[LolaMoon08]

According to his manifesto, After the police visit, he took down most of his YouTube videos and had to postpone his rampage for a month, from 4/24 to 5/24. Something prompted him to act on 5/23.

In his manifesto, he said after he had to postpone it in April and that there was nothing that would stop him from carrying out his plan on 5/24. Something about students heading home. I believe it was the end of the semester and most would be leaving on Sunday to go home. So on 5/24 there would have been a lot of activity for last minute partying with fellow classmates.

I just want to say that I am trying to remember everything as best as I can and if I am remembering things wrong, please correct me.

This is what we used to do during document dumps for Caylee's case. There was just so much reading going on that no one could remember every single detail!

 

[gngr~snap]

Apartment killings

unless the killings were spaced apart - by hours- how could one person kill three people
it seems like if someone i was lliving with started screaming and two of us there we could go overpower him

with a gun i could get it but with knives the only conclusion i can come up with is he killed one waited killed the next waited killed the next ??? No?


A N D a PS here! Last night LE was very odd --- it first broke as 6 killed peroid giving the impression that all 6 were in the slow drive bye mode

it was hours later before LE acknoledge that three of the six were in his apartment. We cant say from the begginning that they did NOT know about the 3 in the apt - the number was 6;

Why did they not from the beggining say three dead in suspects apt and three on the streets???????????

Kinda wonder if mom dad call and cops did not respond correctly and the truth might be if LE responded to mom earlier report ( first place LE would go is where the young man lived )

Notions pls

It sure sounds like with a time of death of 9:30 pm that LE might have shown up to the apartment for a wellness check.
I saw an interview of a student that lived in the complex on CNN. Hopefully they will release a recording of it. He had been in the apartment prior to ER moving in and knew at least one of the boys killed.
He was responding as to why no one heard screams from the boys and where they might have been killed.
He said there were lots of bloody footprints outside the door and he couldn't figure out how there could be that much blood in the apartment.
As to them not screaming he said if someone sticks a gun in your face and says stay quiet, you stay quiet.
He had no idea how ER was able to kill them.

Did anyone else see it?


All posts are my opinion only. Sent via Tapatalk

 

[animlzrule]

Why is a case about an entitled straight male and the objectification of woman being changed into a rampage by some confused gay male?

I give you......Fox "News"::facepalm::facepalm:

http://gawker.com/fox-news-wonders-about-ucsb-shooter-s-homosexual-impul-1581412307