CA - Elliot Rodger kills 6, injures 13 in Isla Vista, Near UC Santa Barbara, #2

[IHAVENOCLUE]

It is not hard to have a child hospitalized if you have money. It is very difficult if you do not have resources. I have a child who has Bipolar. He has been hospitalized several times. The hospital is comfortable and well-staffed. There is coping-skills training and therapy and group therapy. Bipolar kids sometimes have tantrums. He becomes defiant and aggressive. He will make threats and physically attack us or else start banging his head or punching himself in the face. We can call the police and they are well-trained and kind to him. An ambulance comes and brings him to the hospital. Then they decide if he should be inpatient or outpatient. Outpatient is all day coping skills and therapy. If we, the parents want him to be inpatient, we tell them.

Presently our son is in residential treatment. It is wonderful. It is not at all scary or traumatic. He will be home in a few months. He's there to get more intensive therapy. We are not as rich as the Rodgers, but we make a good income. And yet, even with our good income we are getting tons of help from medicare. We pay for half of one month--it's not cheap, but it's doable. We will pay it off with a payment plan. The rest of his stay-- as long as we need it--is paid for by medicare entirely.

I'm sharing all of this to say that in many communities it is not hopeless at all. It's absolutely true that in many, many communities mental healthcare access is horrible--especially in rural communities. When we first had our son diagnosed it did feel overwhelming and it sometimes felt hopeless because we didn't know what was available to us. But with two educated parents, we hit Google and got to work. We live pretty close to Mayo clinic and that's where he was diagnosed. It wasn't cheap, but we didn't go bankrupt.

Where is the actual evidence that ER was being seen daily by a therapist when he was 8? This seems to be just referring to the school counselor? I haven't seen any evidence that he was actually getting any real treatment as a youth. But I could have missed it--I cant keep up!

I also didn't hear that he had been on any meds as a youth. It is imperative to start meds early to decrease the symptoms (how great it would have been if ER's obsessive/intrusive thoughts had been under control when he was in high school through meds) and to teach compliance so that when he became an adult he would take his meds. ER was supposed to take risperdal. That was the first med my son was prescribed and it worked wonders (he had intrusive thoughts, bloody/violent visions)--but my son needed more than just risperdal. Taking riseprdal alone when you're in your late teens with these kinds of symptoms is not intensive intervention.

I am not blaming the parents. I am a parent with a kid who has scary symptoms. BUT it's just hugely important if you have a kid like this, not to be in denial. I don't think my child would ever do something like this, but the minute I find a violent picture in his journal or the minute he shares that he's had some recurring bloody image in his head--I am on it! We don't ever dismiss these symptoms. ER was definitely sharing his symptoms with many people. How often did he express his hatred for so many others? If my kid was repeatedly expressing hatred or entitlement I would be on it. In fact, one of the dangers of having a child with a mental illness is that sometimes families will tip-toe around the child and cater to them and then create a secondary problem with narcissism. This happened to my dad who is also bipolar and narcissistic because everyone always gave in to his tantrums.

I bring up these things in hopes that if there are families struggling they will be encouraged to seek resources just as soon as it becomes evident that there is a problem. There is help out there and often the hospital is the way to get it fastest. Early intervention is super important. You can have your older child hospitalized for "tantrums"--screaming, biting, hitting etc. (I'm not talking about age-appropriate younger child tantrums). ER describes having tantrums as a teen and could have been hospitalized for that. JMO

Sorry...,I am way behind in this thread...

but thank you for this very informative post, Song.....

And...:grouphug: to you and your family...

 

[butwhatif?]

Chris Akin, who had known the 'virgin killer' for several years, told the Mirror he noticed a sinister change in him after he started to take creatine.

Chris told the Mirror: “Elliot was a good friend of mine, I had known him for a few years now, we would Skype each other weekly and talk about life.

“Honestly I never thought he would he capable of something this horrid, but I believe I know why.

“He would also tell me how he wanted to get into the bodybuilding lifestyle and started on creatine around four months ago. I could notice the anger and changes every time we spoke on Skype.

“I believe he took it everyday. He wouldn’t answer my questions about his usage but as time went on you could totally tell the changes in his character.

“He wasn’t very different at first, but after a while it seemed like he was getting into dark places emotionally.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-...g-british-serial-killer-3614553#ixzz3310OVjmt
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook

The article notes that ER started taking the supplement about 4 months ago, which he had learned about on the bodybuilding site and that at around the same time he had begun being bullied and endlessly harassed in private messages by an 'internet gang'.

Since I refuse to read ER's 141 page diatribe, I don't know if he ever mentioned the friend who was quoted above, or if it mentioned him getting the creatine+ buying fitness & weightlifting gear to use at home. He claimed he did lift on the BB site, but I can't imagine him wanting to go to a gym with his social awkwardness, or being accepted/fitting in at one with his extreme arrogance and narcissism.
And I definitely don't see him being dedicated enough to stick to a really serious 'get buff' routine which he'd have to do for the creatine to make any kind of difference in his appearance.

When I first saw his 'vlogs', I did notice he looked a little bloated in one of them ('Why do girls hate me so much?')...which he'd re-posted on YT the day of or before his rampage after having deleted it 3 months before because it had disturbed him mum leading to the welfare check by LE.

That bloating could have been caused by taking creatine, but since there was no sign of bloating in the 'retribution' video, it's just as possible that he wasn't using it and just told this friend that he was for a bit of attention or as an excuse for being more aggressive than usual in a Skype call . Narcissists are often able to 'fool' the people around them until their mask 'slips' revealing the darker side of their personality.

I just don't think for a second that creatine can be blamed for any of this, regardless of the mood-based side effects that some users report-which ER had to have known about from the BB site.

It should also be mentioned that most formal studies refute any creatine supplement/ mood connection.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

I wonder if, early on, psychiatrist/s accurately made a diagnosis and denial set-in and treatment wasn't pursued OR a second opinion was sought resulting in an accurate or inaccurate diagnosis/treatment?

* * *

In the case of the psychiatrist that ER reportedly saw 3 times (IIRC) and who prescribed the drug that ER refused to take ... what action could that Dr. have taken after he learned ER wasn't taking the drug? I believe ER was still a minor at that time. TIA

Did that Dr. have any responsibility to report this "very, very disturbed" young man who refused to take the drug the Dr thought was necessary OR follow through to make sure ER was receiving proper care/attention? TIA

It could be anything regarding his diagnosis. We're not privy to those records and we might not ever be.

Prescribing an anti-psychotic is no small thing (for lack of a better phrase). Especially in a child under 18. These meds can cause worsening symptoms, especially for the young. Where was the follow up? Where was the assurance of compliance? What made this Dr. feel an anti-psychotic was the proper treatment? And why oh dear why, wasn't he hospitalized when starting these meds?

Someone, somewhere, dropped the ball. Anti-psychotics aren't given out like candy. They come with serious side effects and serious potential to make an already mentally ill person worse.

Someone dropped the ball big time. We just don't know who. Not looking to place blame. This medication issue is HUGE. Someone knew more about ER than what we're privy to at this time.

 

[Zuri]

OT: A 24 year old white male pulled a gun on a classmate in the Chemistry lab at the Community College of Philadelphia. No shots fired. Police are hoping individual will surrender to police through his father. Campus evacuated. Argument over girl. Happening now.

ETA: Reporters are making reference to ER and UCSB murders. Students are terrified here.

 

[jjenny]

I wonder if, early on, psychiatrist/s accurately made a diagnosis and denial set-in and treatment wasn't pursued OR a second opinion was sought resulting in an accurate or inaccurate diagnosis/treatment?

* * *

In the case of the psychiatrist that ER reportedly saw 3 times (IIRC) and who prescribed the drug that ER refused to take ... what action could that Dr. have taken after he learned ER wasn't taking the drug? I believe ER was still a minor at that time. TIA

Did that Dr. have any responsibility to report this "very, very disturbed" young man who refused to take the drug the Dr thought was necessary OR follow through to make sure ER was receiving proper care/attention? TIA

ETA: What rises to the level where a psychiatrist MUST report a mentally ill/personality disordered individual? TIA

Only when patient is threatening himself or others with harm, psychiatrist must report. Not taking a prescribed medication therefore is not enough.

 

[bettybaby00]

EXCLUSIVE - 'Last picture of virgin killer': Pizza parlor waitress claims [ER] gave her 'creepy smile' hours before he went on bloody rampage

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-waitress-says-know-image-Elliot-Rodger.html

The headline of this article is so dramatic, and sensationalized......

He must love it :banghead:

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

I wonder if, early on, psychiatrist/s accurately made a diagnosis and denial set-in and treatment wasn't pursued OR a second opinion was sought resulting in an accurate or inaccurate diagnosis/treatment?

* * *

In the case of the psychiatrist that ER reportedly saw 3 times (IIRC) and who prescribed the drug that ER refused to take ... what action could that Dr. have taken after he learned ER wasn't taking the drug? I believe ER was still a minor at that time. TIA

Did that Dr. have any responsibility to report this "very, very disturbed" young man who refused to take the drug the Dr thought was necessary OR follow through to make sure ER was receiving proper care/attention? TIA

ETA: What rises to the level where a psychiatrist MUST report a mentally ill/personality disordered individual? TIA

Ugh, in reading my reply I realized I went around and around and never answered the question. :banghead:

I don't know for certain as I'm not a medical or legal professional, but I would imagine the prescribing physician would have a legal and moral responsibility to ensure compliance. As I said in my other half-baked reply, it's no small thing to prescribe these meds. Something serious would have had to been going on to even prescribe these meds in the first place.

JMO

 

[jjenny]

Ugh, in reading my reply I realized I went around and around and never answered the question. :banghead:

I don't know for certain as I'm not a medical or legal professional, but I would imagine the prescribing physician would have a legal and moral responsibility to ensure compliance. As I said in my other half-baked reply, it's no small thing to prescribe these meds. Something serious would have had to been going on to even prescribe these meds in the first place.

JMO

You can't make someone to do what they don't want to do.
Ensuring compliance would be pretty much impossible, unless the patient was committed and forced to take the meds. But as we all know, pretty much nobody is committed nowdays.

 

[Zuri]

OT Continued: ATF and Dept of Homeland Security on campus of Community College of Philadelphia even though student with gun fled and is with his father. Parents went rushing down to campus despite their kids being over 18.

ER's massacre has really instilled so much fear in everyone because it can happen anywhere at any time. Police are saying that because of recent UCSB shootings, they have been on high alert because of copy cat killers. The 24 yo may or may not have even pointed the gun at the other student and just brandished it, but they are not taking any chances. Perpetrator fled and is with his dad who contacted police. He is supposed to turn himself in. Four square city blocks in Philadelphia have been shut down; order to shelter in place.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

I'm way off base in my previous replies. There are lots of people out there who are non-compliant. Perhaps there just aren't enough doctors out there to care for everyone in the way that would benefit everyone. I really don't know. It's so sad to me.

I'll be interested to see how this plays out. We can best believe any and all treating physicians will be looked at.

 

[Zuri]

Ugh, in reading my reply I realized I went around and around and never answered the question. :banghead:

I don't know for certain as I'm not a medical or legal professional, but I would imagine the prescribing physician would have a legal and moral responsibility to ensure compliance. As I said in my other half-baked reply, it's no small thing to prescribe these meds. Something serious would have had to been going on to even prescribe these meds in the first place.

JMO

Prescribing physician does not have the legal or moral responsibility to ensure compliance. On subsequent patient visits, inquiries will be made and meds may be adjusted. It is incumbent on the patient to take meds as prescribed.

 

[Quester]

Kids in school are being forced to give up their lovely homemade lunches but we can't force a "very, very disturbed" kid to take a Dr. deemed necessary medication. :banghead:

Don't get me wrong - I'm not looking for more government intervention but just looking at the irony. JMO

 

[Zuri]

The headline of this article is so dramatic, and sensationalized......

He must love it :banghead:

ITA
15 minutes of fame and even the owner says it is impossible to tell if the person in the doorway was ER. The headline was ridiculous.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Here they are . I did not realize they are in the above link but you have to click to see them.

http://amradaronline.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/rodger-pages-wm-2.pdf

I wonder what became of dad's intended psych eval. Of ER after these court hearings were held...

:waitasec:

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

Prescribing physician does not have the legal or moral responsibility to ensure compliance. On subsequent patient visits, inquiries will be made and meds may be adjusted. It is incumbent on the patient to take meds as prescribed.

Thank you for the insight. I'm projecting my own experience with anti-psychotics forgetting that I was compliant. I don't know what my psychiatrist would have done, if anything, if I hadn't been. My condition was different from ER though. I don't want to share too much, I just know there were concerns for the safety of myself and children. I was watched differently than ER seemed to have been.

I don't know how we fix this or that it even can be fixed. I feel it's a dangerous world when people are prescribed meds like anti-psychotics with the possibility of no follow up.

 

[i.b.nora]

http://www.americanluxurymag.com/20...or-elaborate-elliot-rodger-hoax/#.U4Yh99q9KSM

Major News Outlets Fall for Elaborate Elliot Rodger Hoax

On May 28th 2014, the most read story on the website of British daily newspaper The Daily Mirror reported that the so-called ‘virgin killer’, Elliot Rodger, was hooked on bodybuilding supplement creatine. Creatine supposedly made him slip into a dark mood and was responsible for the sinister thoughts that resulted in the deadly rampage. The story was later picked up by The Daily Mail, The Herald Sun, and news.com.au, among others, and continues to spread to large media outlets as of his writing. It even made it into The Daily Mirror’s print edition, pictured below. Only the story was a complete fabrication.

More...

 

[Zuri]

I'm way off base in my previous replies. There are lots of people out there who are non-compliant. Perhaps there just aren't enough doctors out there to care for everyone in the way that would benefit everyone. I really don't know. It's so sad to me.

I'll be interested to see how this plays out. We can best believe any and all treating physicians will be looked at.

I am non compliant with my cholesterol med and I know better! As an RN and a wife of a physician, the issue of non compliance is huge. It is incumbent on the patient to follow doctor's orders and a lot of times patients don't. Very frustrating for doctors for sure.

As an example, My DH's partner sent a patient to a specialist for a biopsy, because the patient had a suspicious looking skin lesion. Patient never went. The skin lesion turned out to be Multiple Myeloma. The office called the specialist and even made the appointment for this patient. Patient did not come back in to office until months later for a different health problem, and patient told DH partner he had never gone when partner asked. The patient went to see specialist after DH told wife who was present that patient needed to go directly over to specialist. Patient died. Wife sued DH partner and specialist and lost lawsuit.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

http://www.americanluxurymag.com/20...or-elaborate-elliot-rodger-hoax/#.U4Yh99q9KSM

Major News Outlets Fall for Elaborate Elliot Rodger Hoax

On May 28th 2014, the most read story on the website of British daily newspaper The Daily Mirror reported that the so-called ‘virgin killer’, Elliot Rodger, was hooked on bodybuilding supplement creatine. Creatine supposedly made him slip into a dark mood and was responsible for the sinister thoughts that resulted in the deadly rampage. The story was later picked up by The Daily Mail, The Herald Sun, and news.com.au, among others, and continues to spread to large media outlets as of his writing. It even made it into The Daily Mirror’s print edition, pictured below. Only the story was a complete fabrication.

More...

Haha! NM. Need to learn to read ahead.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

http://amradaronline.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/rodger-pages-wm-2.pdf

Above link are the papers .

below link

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2...eeds-autistic-mother-claimed-court-documents/

Virgin Murderer Elliot Rodger Was ‘Special Needs High Functioning Autistic Child,’ His Own Mother Claimed READ The Disturbing Court Documents Filed Before His Rampage




ETA WOW number 7 [modsnip]

Dad was not part of it so he wanted to have him assessed again. Who knows at this point but I seriously doubt he had it.

That, too, struck me as very interesting...(if true)

[modsnip]

:waitasec:

 

[jjenny]

Haha! NM. Need to learn to read ahead.

He didn't take creatine. The whole story was a hoax.