CA - Elliot Rodger kills 6, injures 13 in Isla Vista, Near UC Santa Barbara, #3

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As I mentioned on another thread, I am seriously concerned about anyone under 24 taking SSRI's. Even the FDA has said it makes them suicidal, but it causes other problems also. I don't think it stigmatizes 'treatment' to scrutinize the drugs and their ill effects or to scrutinize psychiatric treatment that may not be appropriate due to the person's age, history, too high of a dosage, etc.

ITA. Too many 'youngsters' are being prescribed SSRIs. I do not believe these drugs were meant for persons under a certain age. I do take SSRIs, but I am in my 40's. These drugs have done wonders for me, however, I am also in therapy. All is jmo.
 
ITA. Too many 'youngsters' are being prescribed SSRIs. I do not believe these drugs were meant for persons under a certain age. I do take SSRIs, but I am in my 40's. These drugs have done wonders for me, however, I am also in therapy. All is jmo.

Agree and I know they are lifesavers for many!
 
Walters interview airs the 27th! Walters interview airs the 27th!


Imo. As it relates to ER and psych meds he stated that he is not taking the Risperdal. Xanax is a mild sedative, not a psychotropic) IMO, in ER case the chain of events was Asperger’s with little insight into the subsequent inappropriate social interactions, which he perceived (high functioning) as rejection, which fueled (again high functioning) his rage.


We also, we need to remember that an MD handing a client a RX , in psyc, often means little. For Risperdal, ,. [FONT=&quot]non[/FONT]-[FONT=&quot]compliance[/FONT] Rate is 45 [FONT=&quot]percent.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]IMO, in this particular case psyc meds had very little to do with his actions[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]http://psychcentral.com/news/archives/2004-06/rc-spa062304.html[/FONT]
 
Walters interview airs the 27th! Walters interview airs the 27th!


Imo. As it relates to ER and psych meds he stated that he is not taking the Risperdal. Xanax is a mild sedative, not a psychotropic) IMO, in ER case the chain of events was Asperger’s with little insight into the subsequent inappropriate social interactions, which he perceived (high functioning) as rejection, which fueled (again high functioning) his rage.


We also, we need to remember that an MD handing a client a RX , in psyc, often means little. For Risperdal, ,. [FONT=&quot]non[/FONT]-[FONT=&quot]compliance[/FONT] Rate is 45 [FONT=&quot]percent.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]IMO, in this particular case psyc meds had very little to do with his actions[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]http://psychcentral.com/news/archives/2004-06/rc-spa062304.html[/FONT]

Prescription drugs may not have been a factor, but some small percent of those taking Xanax do have homicidal ideation.

As with all benzodiazepines, paradoxical reactions such as stimulation, increased muscle spasticity, sleep disturbances, hallucinations and other adverse behavioral effects such as agitation, rage, irritability, and aggressive or hostile behavior have been reported rarely. In many of the spontaneous case reports of adverse behavioral effects, patients were receiving other CNS drugs concomitantly and/or were described as having underlying psychiatric conditions. Should any of the above events occur, alprazolam should be discontinued. Isolated published reports involving small numbers of patients have suggested that patients who have borderline personality disorder, a prior history of violent or aggressive behavior, or alcohol or substance abuse may be at risk for such events. Instances of irritability, hostility, and intrusive thoughts have been reported during discontinuation of alprazolam in patients with posttraumatic stress disorder.

http://www.rxlist.com/xanax-side-effects-drug-center.htm
 
It has been explained to me that SSRIs help people in part by helping them get out of the energy sinkhole of depression. It allows them to have the energy to get up and get actively involved in therapy. Whatever underlying personality or conditions people have, which are subdued by depression, come to surface when medicated (like an awakening.). So, if a person is suicidal, taking SSRIs can give the person the energy needed to kill themselves. If there is underlying anger and rage, it gives them energy to act on that. This is why, in my opinion, it is critical that anyone prescribed psychotropic meds is also actively engaged in therapy, and carefully screened before being prescribed, and monitored closely after starting it. The main purpose for SSRIs in my opinion, is to get the energy to do the work to get better... And eventually not need them anymore. That being said, I feel more confident in certain kinds, like Prozac, that have been studied for a long time. I am less confident in some of the newer kinds, and have heard from others that it caused intense obsessive thoughts of suicide in people who had no prior such thoughts. All my opinion :)


That is supposed to stand for the first few weeks of treatment before the medication has time to help. Not for the entire duration of being on the med. just wanted to state that point.


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That is supposed to stand for the first few weeks of treatment before the medication has time to help. Not for the entire duration of being on the med. just wanted to state that point.


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My brain may still be asleep lol but I am having trouble understanding and would like to? Do you mean the energy increase is for the first weeks, the monitoring? Therapy? Thanks :)
 
Prescription drugs may not have been a factor, but some small percent of those taking Xanax do have homicidal ideation.



http://www.rxlist.com/xanax-side-effects-drug-center.htm


In 17 years never saw anything like that!

I think the statement (has been my experance) :
As with all benzodiazepines, paradoxical reactions such as stimulation, increased muscle spasticity, sleep disturbances, hallucinations and other adverse behavioral effects such as agitation, rage, irritability, and aggressive or hostile behavior have been reported rarely


is actually a statement saying the above mentioned happen very rarely as oppossed to outlining some the side effect

BUT there are 100's of benzos - I am sure some of that class of drug can do some pretty intense stuff!_ BUt IMO xanex is a real mild benzo

have been reported rarely.

borderline personality disorder, a prior history of violent or aggressive behavior, or alcohol or substance abuse may be at risk for such events.

The borderline (the illiness itself regardless of any medication) typically have lots of suicidal eposides. A lot of the time it is attn seeking behavior, some self mutilate. Generally they are very needy - that is the personality disorder itself.

Violent aggressdive bheaviors are typically a in abiltiy to regulate most emotions in an adaptive manner.

Alcohol / ohter drugs - can make folks angry and aggresive typically

If anything alcohol and xanex together (only) can kill someone by Slowing everything DOWN to the point where they stop breathing

Psycotropics can do really negative stuff

Xanex and crack would probably be an issue! BUT more the crack than xanex -- its really a mild entity ---xanex alone in ER case -- overdoes - he would have fallen asleep at the wheel

Oh my lord what Paxil did to some was horrible (some described it like- when going off the junk!) like electric bolts going through there body from their feet

IMO


http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/borderline-personality-disorder/index.shtml

http://www.drugs.com/disease-interactions/alprazolam,xanax.html

List of benzodiazepines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Also people go on psych drugs because they're mentally ill. And they go on and off of them in part because of their lack of insight due to their illness and in part because the stigma against there use. I think these people hurt others because of their illness. I've seen hundreds improve because of psych meds that would have never done so otherwise. I think links like this just continue the stigma of psychiatric illness treatment and further enhances the problem.


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Great post TY!
 
Sorry if this is a repeat and I haven't scrutinized this list, but here are possible murders/mass murderers who were on prescription meds. I am familiar with one of these cases, Christopher Pittman (sad story really). I also know that this has been and is being researched by some academics, especially drugs given to adolescents ... a professor from Iowa specifically that I know of, but can't think of her name off hand.

http://www.naturalnews.com/045419_Elliot_Rodger_Xanax_psychiatric_drugs.html

Here's just some of the true history of psychiatric drugs and mass murder:

* Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold's medical records have never been made available to the public.

* Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

* Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

* Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

* Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

* Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

* Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

* Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

* A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

* Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

* A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

* Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

* TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

* Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

* James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

* Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

* Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

* Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

* Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

* Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

* Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

* Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

* Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

* Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

* Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

* Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara's parents said ".... the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil...")

* Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002, (Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and killed himself.)

* Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.

* Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

* Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

* Woody, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

* A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

* Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."

* Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

* Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

* Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.

* Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

* Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school.


Missing from list... 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds....

* What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21... killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az?

* What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24... killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado?

* What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or?

* What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct?
In this list - media should have reported it like they were PRESCRIBED *advertiser censored*. But it gets reported as "taking" the drug.

Medication non compliance is huge. And is backwards - the folks suffering with the more acute illiness, IMO, are the ones who are more medication non comp. BUT that also is a result of thier illiness in and of itself. Remebering to take it, to fill it, driving abiltiy, money etc etc

Not saying there can not be side effects for some people, but in psyc, I would put the illiness before most of the time the RX.

The meds have horrible side effects, but media making a link in general that psyc meds CAUSE murder is backwards IMO.

I think a more accurate notion might be:

As a result of not finding the correct medication, which was not taken as ordered, (Often substance abuse history as well) so we might be able to add other drugs in mix) apparently did not help XXXX manage his/her murderous behaviors.

A lot of them need to be taken for weeks before ANYTHING happens either good or bad! They have to build up to levels - like its not like shooting heroin - in the movies- not personal exp!) its instant. Insulin is pretty fast. Seizure stuff pretty fast. Most psyc meds take a long time to either help or get to side effects of any kind, IMO

I guess what I am saying is the list is really IMO a list of people with mental disorders which resulted in..................

Holmes quit going to his doctor

Many studies of this problem have identified the following major reasons why some individuals with serious mental illness refuse to take medication:

1. Anosognosia: The person is unaware of their illness and does not think they are sick.
2. Alcohol and/or drug abuse
3. Poor relationships with mental health provider
4. Medication side effects

Studies of individuals with first-episode schizophrenia have reported that 82 percent of them will relapse within 5 years, and that the greatest predictor of relapse is non-compliance with

medication.


http://treatmentadvocacycenter.org/resources/consequences-of-lack-of-treatment/anosognosia/1375-why-individuals-with-severe-psychiatric-disorders-often-do-not-take-their-medications

Look at this one:

THIS IS WHAT THE MEDIA REPORTS
According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien.

however, he evidently was NOT taking the Prozac or Ambian: Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

Amy WInehouse: For weeks they reported crack and stuff. Her tox report only alchohol.

I am only saying that the media gives many the impression that they were TAKING the meds, wherein in most, I would venture more toward they had not taken them correctly or not at all and therefore their symptomplgy increased and as a result of declining mental health engaged in horrible behaorviors

psychotropic medications has proven to be of value, enabling minimization of the limitations of considerable genetic variability in their metabolism and the high rates of poor compliance with many psychiatric disorders. Therapeutic ranges..................

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2014933/
 
My brain may still be asleep lol but I am having trouble understanding and would like to? Do you mean the energy increase is for the first weeks, the monitoring? Therapy? Thanks :)


Sorry for being confusing! It takes 4-6 weeks for antidepressants to begin to show effects on mood. But prior to this time it can start to improve energy etc without the patients mood improving. So now they have more energy to potentially carry out suicide. Not that the meds necessary cause them to become suicidal, although anything a possible and it would be hard to tell. Kind of like the chicken and the egg, which comes first? They are depressed patients, many of which had thoughts of suicide prior to even seeking treatment.


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Thanks for clarifying Danzn! I get what you are saying :) That's one of the reasons I think it is imperative that a person is actively engaged in therapy, and monitored by a psychiatrist from the start.
I understand people's fear of these meds, as some people have adverse reactions. But as pointed out above, the reactions are relatively rare. This still means that people need professional help just in case, in my opinion.
On a personal note, if we say no one under 24 should get these meds, I would disagree. Being prescribed SSRIs at age 19, while going to a counselor, saved my life. I was not suicidal, but I was essentially dead- it's hard to explain unless you've been there. My therapist said she had never before seen a person as depressed as me that was NOT suicidal before in her career. I was no longer able to feel feelings, just the smog and quicksand of depression. I worked with a psychiatrist who was one of the people in the initial studies of it, etc, so he was well versed and watched me. I didn't become violent or suicidal, I became me again. I was not drugged up, I was freed physically from depression and I worked hard in therapy. I am great, now, not on meds but always aware that I could need them again at some point. I know what it feels like, and have on occasions needed them for shorter periods of time. I share this with you all because, for many people, these are necessary. I wish I had the diagnosis and meds earlier in my life, I could have avoided many of the damaging things that happened.
Some psych meds make people feel different, some make people feel like themselves again. Prozac helped me find me, like a SAR mission :)

ETA there is a biological component with some mental disorders, including depression. I find the way SSRIs work, biologically, very interesting. It's like I had a vitamin deficiency, only different.
 
I just heard a clip on BBC Radio news from the Barbara Walters interview with Peter Rodgers, Elliot's father. He said they had no idea - absolutely no idea - that Elliot was ill. And that each day has become a living nightmare for him, and he grieves so much for the families of the victims, and the young victims themselves.

Here is a Daily Mail article about the interview:

'My son was a mass murderer who caused so much suffering': Virgin killer Elliot Rodger's film-director father breaks his silence in first interview'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-breaks-silence-interview.html#ixzz35ohCuyoX
 
[FONT=&quot]A while back you guys got me link to get CNN on computer. When I try in America I get crazy stuff. Do any of you have link where in America or anywhere where I can get ABC streaming live. I want to see Elliot Rodgers father tonight on 20/20 Help![/FONT]
 
[FONT=&quot]A while back you guys got me link to get CNN on computer. When I try in America I get crazy stuff. Do any of you have link where in America or anywhere where I can get ABC streaming live. I want to see Elliot Rodgers father tonight on 20/20 Help![/FONT]

This is the only thing I could fine. Several clips of the show. Watch them all.

(Oh it is the whole show its in 7 min segments)

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/
 
This is the only thing I could fine. Several clips of the show. Watch them all.

(Oh it is the whole show its in 7 min segments)

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/

Thank you trigger.

This link will play all the segments in order: http://abcnews.go.com/US/santa-barbara-shooters-fathers-open-letter-stop/story?id=24319895

ETA: There appears to only be four parts, which seems short for an hour-long broadcast. There are other clips from the interview but those weren't aired as part of the 20/20 show.
 
I only caught bits of the show, purposely trying to avoid it. It just pizzed me off. The more media attention placed on this guy, the more likely it will be for someone else to commit a similar act, IMO. I have no idea why that father wanted to sit and speak with BW and answer her idiotic questions at this time. And that's saying something, because I generally like her interviews. It seemed like a disgusting ploy for sympathy and attention by the father.
 
This interview was not much of an interview. The father just said a few very predictable things, it was very surface, nothing in-depth.
 

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