GUILTY CA - Erin Corwin, 19, pregnant, Twentynine Palms, 28 June 2014 - #8

[Dmacky]

I think most of us have difficulty with this! It's so far removed from what we would think of as acceptable behavior in our own lives, so when presented with the situation it just seems OBVIOUS Erin and CL aren't going to ride into the sunset and live happily ever after. Off the top of my head, here's just a few of the possible reasons she might have "willingly believed" whatever CL told her, even if it didn't make sense to her at the time...

Some family members have described Erin as naive, shy, inexperienced in the world, etc.
She had just moved away from home to an area where she did not have family/friends
She was left at home all day (IM stated she was hired but never started working for Tractor Supply...for what that's worth)
She was on a military base in the middle of the desert, with not much to do in the area
She had a miscarriage earlier this year (some question whether that was the truth)
She was a newlywed
She was only 19 years old

Kind of the "perfect storm" of circumstances if she was looking for an "escape" and thought CL was the person who could make that happen. Mind you, I could shoot this all down in a New York minute...but back in the day when I was 19 I made some pretty stupid decisions by just living in the moment, not thinking about things too much and hoping everything would turn out ok in the end. Needless to say, things rarely turn out ok if you are purposely turning off your critical thinking skills. I don't know that we will ever truly make sense of this, but maybe that's because most of us are older, bolder, wiser, more experienced in the world, and have a network of friends/family near where we live.

BBM ~

Great post Nora :wave:

When I think back to some of the things I did, and decisions I made at 19, and even in my early 20's I shudder! With age comes wisdom!

 

[NYC Girl]

It would be good to know who enjoyed hunting, and who didn't. If CL asked, "Who wants to go hunting with me tomorrow?" at the gathering, he might have known who was likely to be interested, or not interested. I doubt hunting licenses are public records there but it would be good to know if he did actually have a hunting license, and who else did. I don't recall any hunting stories about him on FB.


According to Merriam-Webster, a boyfriend is : a male friend or a frequent or regular male companion in a romantic or sexual relationship.

 

[rosesfromangels]

BBM but why would CL worry about his wife's reaction to EC being pregnant, since EC is married to JC, the proud papa to be? it seems as tho, through the text msgs between EC and her friend JT in TN, that EC was definatley planning on letting CL know that the baby is his hoping for a life together?? i dont get it, why not just tell everyone it's her husbands baby? unless her husband and her were keeping separate bedrooms? still , then only her and JC would know it wasn't JC baby. that would be cruel of her to have both guys thinking they are the father.

BBM. IMO, because wives usually don't react well to finding that out. In many cases at WS, this exact scenario was motive for murder.

And wouldn't it be just as cruel to let JC think the baby was his, when it may not have been?[/QUOTE]

It is my SPECULATION that EC was pressuring CL in to leaving his family to form a new one with her? Perhaps she was telling CL she was going to spill the beans to her husband and Mrs. CL? He might have been backed in to a corner and snapped. MOO.

 

[rosesfromangels]

It takes a special kind of wife who will not only stay with the man, but also help him get rid of the problem and then clean up his mess. Can you say psycho? JMO

Unless of course, she is the puppet master.......

 

[rosesfromangels]

Have we seen any recent media reports on what and where the CL couple are in Alaska? What are they doing...where are they working? I'm wondering why the media hasn't shoved a camera in their faces and asked them if they know what happened to EC? I'm wondering why they aren't asking CL if he was having an affair with EC, if she was pregnant with his child, and if he murdered her! Why is this couple tucked away so cozy while EC's family is going nuts trying to find her. Where is the spotlight?

All my opinion and speculation only!

 

[77DarkHorse7]

I wonder if the "what" that was supposedly missed in the non-search of CL & NL's garage was NL's jeep. I hope one of the sealed search warrants was for her jeep.

Whoa, you think they owned two Jeeps?

 

[atthelake]

It takes a special kind of wife who will not only stay with the man, but also help him get rid of the problem and then clean up his mess. Can you say psycho? JMO

Have you been following the Heather Elvis case here at WS? :sigh:

 

[smc1225]

Whoa, you think they owned two Jeeps?

I think it was in an interview with IM who mentioned that they both had a Jeep.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Ok. I admit I am new to following this particular case. But I keep asking....what about the red car? I believe the two witnesses who saw the red and blue cars. So where the heck is the red car? Who owns it? No one come forward yet? Is this a secret??

 

[Love Never Fails]

First of all... :welcome4: We are glad you decided to join in the discussion!! Here's some comments on what you wrote...

From what we understand, you are correct about the cameras - they would provide a TON of information!!

The Park Ranger sighting has never been confirmed as more than rumor. Some people do/don't believe it happened, but that's opinion rather than fact since LE has been silent.

Unless I'm having a brain freeze, I don't recall a family member/LE/MSM confirming that JC knew about the affair. A neighbor knew and told LE, according to the Statement of Probable Cause, but that doesn't necessarily mean JC knew. Many believe he did know, and it's certainly likely, but again I think we are dealing with opinion rather than confirmed fact. (Same goes for the "party" both couples supposedly attended Friday night.)

As for JC's efforts to find Erin...we have a few family members who have stated he called/looked around, but the family's comments sometimes aren't the same. And as for JC himself, he could be a figment of our imagination for all we know! Not a statement, not an appearance, not a video...nothing. I'm certainly not faulting him for it at all, but we can't hear anything from the horse's mouth because we can't even find the horse!

As for your statement, "There are several KEY pieces of information being withheld from the public," truer words were never spoken. This has been a seriously bizarre handling of this missing person's case, and I truly hope the end justify their means. No posters/fliers? No regular updates? No hubby/family doing the MSM circuit to "keep her picture in the news"? No pressers with Q/A time? Etc. Etc. Etc. I certainly don't understand, and unfortunately I don't see anything changing until they find Erin.

Wait! Oh my gosh, what is this I noticed???? You didn't have ANY comment about the red car??!!! (Couldn't resist! lol)

Your comments show it's clear you know this case. Thanks for researching it so thoroughly and posting your thoughts. Keep 'em coming! And, of course, now I'm curious what you think about the red car.

Unless the military has changed in recent years...oh heck yeah of course it has..anyway, the NCIS on base likely told him to keep his mouth shut, no interviews, no cameras. Nothing. and though the police may have jurisdiction, the military police and NCIS will be prominent, after all these are marines we are talking about and who is to say the crime didn't happenon on base?

Though lack of information kills my curiosity, I think LE are doing what they must do. I think she is gone forever. Sadly.

 

[IntriguedAgain]

Thanks, I've been reading this site for years and finally joined last year...and posted last night! I wish I wasn't so interested in missing person/unidentified person cases, every single one of them is heartbreaking. I have a few I can't let go and doubt will ever be solved.

Good to know on the Park Ranger, I wasn't sure anymore. Given what we know to be true, I tend to lean on the side of an actual sighting that LE is keeping to themselves. Hard to say, but it would make sense with the continued searching inside JTNP and why would they bother searching there unless she was seen on camera entering the park. A park ranger sighting wouldn't be out of the ordinary. Who knows though?

Regarding JC's knowledge of the affair, for some reason I thought I had read it in an article. In my mind I had it as fact, but I honestly can't remember the official place I read it. It is possible that I've read it so many times by people giving unverified information that I began to accept it as fact. I'll have to research it and see what I come up with. Good call.

I agree it is very frustrating that JC has been absent. I've able to dismiss that given the tight control the military has on its soldiers. I know people in the military and they confirmed that a soldier can be ordered to remain silent or face serious consequences for disobeying orders. At this point, the military is all he has to hang on to right now and it would make sense that he is completely overwhelmed and following orders on autopilot. I would be, anyway. I also have to wonder what he would say? He's in a horrible position of everyone expects the spouse versus pointing the finger at CL. If he truly loves Erin, then I can't imagine he would want to address the affair and there is no way around that if he publicly appears. He would also have to address his timeline, and LE most likely doesn't want that information released. Either way he loses. Plus, if they have told him she is not coming home, what is the point? LE might also want to keep him off tv so they make CL and NL think he is a suspect and they have less to worry about. I don't think LE considers him a suspect, but that is pure speculation on my part based on the attitude of her family toward him and their attitude toward CL and NL. Maybe they are trying to confuse all 3 of them though? It's frustrating for the public, but I can't see the point in his appearance other than to sate our curiosity. I'd love to hear what he has to say, but not sure why he would do it. It won't bring Erin home or further the investigation. Also, if he never appears, people will leave him alone. After his very first appearance, or statement, he will be hounded to death by the media begging for more.

Based on everyone's behavior, it seems LE thought she was deceased almost immediately. It seems they also feel reasonably sure who is responsible and are just building their case, based on CL's inconsistencies, NL comments to IM, and the many search warrants directed toward them. I also find it telling that they charged CL for the potato gun. That seems like nothing more than an additional way for LE to let him know they are on to him, get further under his skin, and give him something to dread by forcing him to return to CA for the court appearance.

I agree this case has been nothing short of BIZARRE! However, the way I see it, and clearly this is only my opinion, is that LE immediately knew Erin was gone and their chances of finding her in such vast and desolate spaces is minimal. They are searching everywhere they can, but I'd say their main focus is on the successful prosecution of the guilty parties and getting them to admit where Erin is. They are keeping ALL information secret because the public can't help. There are no witnesses in the desert, so why post flyers or ask for tips? If they release nothing, the suspect(s) are left wondering what LE knows and that has to drive them crazy. They don't know what LE has, so they don't know how to build their cover story. For instance, lets speculate that they did drive to JTNP, was Erin caught on camera or seen by a Park Ranger-were they? Did JC leave bases at any time during a timeframe that would make is possible for him to be involved? Everyone in the military knows they are on the base cameras every time they enter or exit, so that is a given even without LE confirmation. CL can't point the finger at JC if he has zero knowledge of where JC was at certain times or if he left base, etc. JC can't point the finger at CL if he doesn't know where he was, either.

Something else we haven't considered is that just because other witnesses haven't come forward in the media, that does NOT mean there are no other witnesses known to LE.

And on to the red car. Honestly, I'm undecided the sibling witness accounts. I can't decide if they are telling the complete truth or elaborating their story to make it more interesting, which has created a situation where misinformation is out there. There are too many situations where witnesses have truthfully given their account of what they saw, yet they got the details wrong. Look at all of the sketches of suspects that are given by multiple witnesses and none of them match-yet they are all of the same person. It happens all the time, even when witness accounts are taken moments, instead of days, after the crime. The witnesses had no reason to pay special attention and it was so far away that I have a hard time believing that he paid special attention to the person sitting in the car or that he could even see the details of the person sitting in the car. I think he wants to remember and might be trying so hard that he is making himself believe he saw something that he did not or might have seen at another time and is confusing things in his mind. Here is an example, my neighbor's house is directly across the street from me and I was in my driveway the other day. My neighbor's friend was visiting and before he drove away, he rolled his window down. I wasn't able to determine much about him even though I was paying attention and he was only about 50 feet from me. Try it sometime. Go about your day in a normal manner and without trying to cheat. As you lay in bed that night, go through your day and ask yourself to remember someone completely random such as a grocery store clerk, the UPS guy, the woman walking her dog, the family in the crosswalk, the guy eating lunch in his car at the park, etc. I was blown away by how little I remembered. As a result, I tend to dismiss the description of the person inside the car, and the car. We have no idea if he would have gotten Erin's car description correct since it was still sitting there so he didn't have to remember. In my opinion, it makes sense to me, that a car was being parked on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere and the witnesses were curious and looked to see what was happening. It makes sense to me that if they paid any attention at all, they would have watched the woman exiting the car out of curiosity. If it was me, I would have originally been focused on the car being parked to see if it was damaged or just being parked and then I would have moved my focus to the woman getting out of the car, locking her car, and then walking to the other car and getting inside. Then I'd be done. Maybe it is just me, but I wouldn't have paid much attention to the other car since my focus would be on trying to figure out what the woman was doing. I'm not sure I would be able to remember details about the other car or who was inside, other than another vehicle was there. This is pure speculation on my part, but when I put myself in the position of the witness, this is the way I would have watched it unfold and remembering it accurately several days later would be sketchy, at best. That said, my other issue is that CL's jeep tracks match the tracks at the scene. If a red car was present, where are the tracks? A red car doesn't match the hard facts known to be true. In my opinion, there is no red car. The witness wasn't paying attention because he never thought he would need to remember anything or that he was seeing anything sinister. When he realized that was Erin's car, he desperately wanted to remember everything and that might have created a situation where he wrongly convinced himself of what he saw or maybe saw at another time. I think it would be easy for misinformation to be presented, even when he believed he was giving accurate information.

On the other hand, let's say I'm completely wrong and there is a red car and there are tracks (that we don't know about) to support the car's existence. I think Erin was transported in the car and it is burned out and sitting in the desert somewhere in a different location than Erin is or it is at the bottom of a mine with, or without, Erin. I can only speculate, but if I used a car to carry out a murder, I would burn it so no trace evidence could be linked back to me or I would dispose of it in a location with minimal chances of it being located. I would dispose of it separately of the victim. In the desert, it would be WAY too easy to go out in the middle of nowhere, carry out the crime, dig a hole, or just walk away and let the animals do the work. A car is a lot harder to dispose of, I would think.

So, I'll finish my book (sorry!) by saying that I can't formulate any reasonably sound conclusion about anything since LE has so much vital information that has not been released. I could be completely wrong, but I tend to think LE is doing a good job in this instance and they are building the absolute strongest case they can so they can bring justice to her family. They are being FAR too quiet about information they obviously have for me to assume they have nothing else. At least I hope.

I strongly doubt she is alive, sadly. All I can say is that I truly hope it was over before she knew what was happening and she died believing in her happily ever after. Regardless of her actions, no one deserves what has most likely happened to her. I can only hope LE is building their case in such a way that they have the responsible party so clearly guilty beyond a reasonable doubt that they throw in the towel and disclose her location so her loved ones can have some type of closure. I can't imagine the agony for the people who love her. The not knowing would destroy me.

 

[goldenbear]

I dont believe there was a red car.

 

[maskedwoman]

Lot's of MOO's going on around here, it gets so people forget about the MMO (Means, Motive, and Opportunity).

Obviously CL could have lied to Erin about where he was taking her that day. But the lack of opportunity precluded him from doing so. Look at the evidence to see his mode of operations. He didn't kill her at the rendezvous point, or in the car, or in the jeep later on, or at the house, or the ranch. In his mind he wasn't comfortable with those locations for untold reasons, so he had to do it at their destination. Why would she let him drive her some place other than where she thought they were going? No, this guy had to set up the opportunity to do this to her, which means moving her to a predetermined location without her becoming "wise" to his intentions. Ergo she died where she thought they were going hunting that day, or at a secluded spot along the way. Either way, not in JTNP.

I personally think he had plenty of opportunity to lie to her via text about where they were going. And since she trusted him enough to sleep with him and let him drive her to any unknown place, I doubt she would have suddenly become concerned for her life when he sprang a little "surprise" on her about their "actual" destination. A smile and a "well, my surprise is actually better than I told you", and I'm sure she would have been completely fooled until it was too late. And, once he had her out in the middle of nowhere, what is she going to do -- jump out and walk miles home in 100+ degree heat? No. Plus, she would have had no idea he planned to kill her until it's too late.

 

[KESfromMA]

I dont believe there was a red car.

I don't either. I find MB to be unreliable, at best. He told one news outlet he was on his way to work that morning when he saw Erin get into the red car http://www.kesq.com/news/search-warrants-served-in-effort-to-find-erin-corwin/26990830 and told JVM that he was going to buy his niece balloons http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1407/16/ijvm.01.html Both stories have him returning 30 minutes later, but I find it hard to believe to get those two things confused. I don't buy what he's selling.

 

[maskedwoman]

From what I have read on this thread, CL is not portrayed as a particularly "complex" thinker. Mind games, or an elaborate disposal plan appear to be more associated with Mrs. CL.
THIS IS SPECULATION ONLY.

True, but isn't that mostly from us drawing our own conclusions about him based on what little we know? I mean, we know that he was in the Marines, we know he has a wife and child, that's he's apparently very good with horses, that IM likes him maybe a little too much, and we know he apparently lied to LE about his relationship with Erin.

But, I don't feel that I know much about him. How smart he actually is, for instance. I know his wife called him stupid but that could be pain talking, because of the affair. Or it could be a power shift in their relationship that only occurred after Erin disappeared. Is he really crazy about his daughter, or did he just use fear of losing his daughter to keep Erin at arm's length. Whether he loves his wife, or not. Or, considering the affair, does he think he loves his wife? Did he pursue Erin or did she pursue him?

According to IM, he and Jon were friends at first. If CL pursued Erin, then to my way of thinking, he was either unhappy in his marriage already or he's a jerk or sociopath (or both) who just likes to count the notches on his bedpost and will do or say whatever is required to get the woman in bed. Either way, he clearly didn't value his friendship with Jon enough to stay away from Erin.

Either way, I don't feel like I know any of these people very well at all. Even Erin. I mean, we're assuming she was shy and inexperienced based on what her Mom said but, considering that she moved across the country by herself and ended up in an affair less than six months later, I'm struggling with that description of her. It could be dead on, and CL totally took advantage of her, but we really don't know. I am not sure parents give very realistic descriptions of what their children are really like, when things like this happen. Maybe they are afraid people won't look unless they sound perfect, which is really sad. Even worse, it might actually be true. I sure hope not.

 

[77DarkHorse7]

I personally think he had plenty of opportunity to lie to her via text about where they were going. And since she trusted him enough to sleep with him and let him drive her to any unknown place, I doubt she would have suddenly become concerned for her life when he sprang a little "surprise" on her about their "actual" destination. A smile and a "well, my surprise is actually better than I told you", and I'm sure she would have been completely fooled until it was too late. And, once he had her out in the middle of nowhere, what is she going to do -- jump out and walk miles home in 100+ degree heat? No. Plus, she would have had no idea he planned to kill her until it's too late.

Exactly, a secluded spot in the middle of nowhere, that she would buy as a celebratory locale for the two of them to escape their daily routines. As in NOT Joshua Tree National Park, that she visits every other day. You're making my point. There is no reason why she would want to go to a national park which is packed with people that she has seen inside and out for months on end, in 100 degree heat, while she's pregnant, with morning sickness etc. And if He wants a clean getaway after he accomplishes his sordid goal, he must accommodate her wishes until the opportunity presents itself.

The evidence, or lack thereof, suggests that he managed to restrain his deadly desire until they were far and away from the prying eyes of the many tourists in the park, and the motorists on the roadways. Ergo a secluded location, outside of the vehicle, that isn't in JTNP.

 

[77DarkHorse7]

I don't either. I find MB to be unreliable, at best. He told one news outlet he was on his way to work that morning when he saw Erin get into the red car http://www.kesq.com/news/search-warrants-served-in-effort-to-find-erin-corwin/26990830 and told JVM that he was going to buy his niece balloons http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1407/16/ijvm.01.html Both stories have him returning 30 minutes later, but I find it hard to believe to get those two things confused. I don't buy what he's selling.

No, you're wrong. The kesq article says they got their information from the CBS NEWS 8 interview, that interview he's also saying he was getting balloons for a party. KESQ misunderstood or something. Beasley can't help it if news people cant keep their FACTS STRAIGHT.

 

[maskedwoman]

Exactly, a secluded spot in the middle of nowhere, that she would buy as a celebratory locale for the two of them to escape their daily routines. As in NOT Joshua Tree National Park, that she visits every other day. You're making my point. There is no reason why she would want to go to a national park which is packed with people that she has seen inside and out for months on end, in 100 degree heat, while she's pregnant, with morning sickness etc. And if He wants a clean getaway after he accomplishes his sordid goal, he must accommodate her wishes until the opportunity presents itself.

The evidence, or lack thereof, suggests that he managed to restrain his deadly desire until they were far and away from the prying eyes of the many tourists in the park, and the motorists on the roadways. Ergo a secluded location, outside of the vehicle, that isn't in JTNP.

You could be right. :dunno: I was really only responding to the thought that he had no opportunity to lie to her, rather than their actual destination. With so much held back at the moment, I didn't feel I could speculate on a particular destination without one of these: :crystalball:

 

[77DarkHorse7]

You could be right. :dunno: I was really only responding to the thought that he had no opportunity to lie to her, rather than their actual destination. With so much held back at the moment, I didn't feel I could speculate on a particular destination without one of these: :crystalball:

Oh, ok. Well that's different then. I needed a different argument then for sure. The opportunity I meant was for killing her. Means, Motive, and Opportunity are the three elements of a crime. (Well actually three of four if you count Modus Operandi, which I would, but others disagree, to whom I say Modus Vivendi) He had plenty of opportunity to lie to her, but it might've seriously jeopardized his Opportunity to commit his intended crimes.

 

[phantomthought]

It would be good to know who enjoyed hunting, and who didn't. If CL asked, "Who wants to go hunting with me tomorrow?" at the gathering, he might have known who was likely to be interested, or not interested. I doubt hunting licenses are public records there but it would be good to know if he did actually have a hunting license, and who else did. I don't recall any hunting stories about him on FB.


According to Merriam-Webster, a boyfriend is : a male friend or a frequent or regular male companion in a romantic or sexual relationship.

I doubt he asked anyone about going hunting.I am willing to bet when LE questioned the two people that supposedly canceled going with him either they had no idea what LE was talking about or said CL was the one that cancelled.