GUILTY CA - Erin Corwin, 19, pregnant, Twentynine Palms, 28 June 2014 - #8

[Mrs. Gladden]

In reference to eyewitness testimony, I've read that a false memory can be created by the way a person may be asked a question. For instance, an example might go something like this. "Did you see another car? What did the car look like? Was it a small car or a larger one?" By the reference to car, an eyewitness can establish a false memory in that he/she saw a car. Also, an eyewitness can create false memories in the re-telling of an account each time.

I'm not saying that any eyewitness has created false memories in this case, just that it's possible.

And eyewitness accounts carry a lot of weight even before juries.

 

[cluciano63]

Just watched an episode of Deadly Women about the murder of Miceala Costanza...killed by a teenage girl and her boyfriend, because of the girl's jealousy of his friendship with Miceala. Just like Diane Zamora case...

 

[IntriguedAgain]

"Intrigued Again" EXCELLENT POST !!! I was getting frustrated with the slow progress but your post recharged my battery. Thanks!
I think the issue of the RED car needs t be determined if we (us on this board) are going to help on this case. (1) Is the sighting legit? If so, (approximately 10:00 AM) who were the people that were seen by the witness? Was the woman EC, NL or someone else? Who was driving the Red car? CL , JC or someone else. The time line is also CRITICAL! If we assume the woman was either EC or NL, that means the distance to the "destination" was within an eighty (80) mile radius, maximum, and probably less do to down time (time out of vehicle). If woman was NL, she was returning the blue car from wherever and the person in the other vehicle has important information (who could that be?). If the woman was EC (doubtful), she met with whomever was driving the red car (possibly someone unknown). I think the time line, based on the witness observation is CRITICAL, in finding any information on EC's whereabouts!
Did MB see a red and a blue car or just two vehicles. The blue car was EC and was there when MB returned so that is a given, but was the second vehicle as he described? The "two hours away" is out the window if the witness statement is accurate!
As with everyone, the second vehicle is bothering me. I think this needs to be confirmed, as it would greatly aid in determining what has happened to EC and where she might be at this point.[/QUOTE]

I'm just figuring out how to reply correctly, so hope this works. Thanks, Shadetree44. I think we are all pretty frustrated with trying to understand anything with so little solid information. There are so many rumors and conflicting information that it is hard to keep it all straight. Hopefully LE has a reason for their strategy of silence!

 

[rosesfromangels]

I believe LE is silent because they know what happened, and in what vicinity, and are busy taking care of business.
AND, let us not forget the MARINES are involved; this is a *mission*. One of their own has been effected, and they will not stop until this is brought to closure and the mission is complete. If you were a Perp, how would you like a team of Marines on your trail?! I'd say the Perp(s) don't stand a snowballs chance in h*ll of getting away with this.
Tick tock....military justice on the way.

 

[vallie]

BBM. If I found out the woman my husband had been having an affair with was pregnant I would definitely wonder/worry if the child was his and not her husband's. Even if he claimed it couldn't be (relationship was over, whatever) there'd still be that niggling doubt.

*That said, I'm new to the case and have not read through all of the other threads yet to know who/how much was known about the affair. Is it suspected that NL was aware?

I'm not sure NL knew, not 100% sure erin's hubby knew the affair was with CL. ( was it reported that Jon found out and wanted to make the marriage work in Feb or March? ) AND they were next door neighbors, but didn't the affair supposedly end late winter? maybe NL, like most wives felt "the vibe", but there's no telling whether she'd automatically imagine her hubby is the father, i mean, it's not like EC and JC were separated., also, if they lived next door, im sure EC's previous miscarraige would lead NL to believe they are trying for a baby, but not convinced she'd automatically assume it was CL's child,, hmmmm

 

[Nora Charles]

Snipped by me...

Regarding JC's knowledge of the affair, for some reason I thought I had read it in an article. In my mind I had it as fact, but I honestly can't remember the official place I read it. It is possible that I've read it so many times by people giving unverified information that I began to accept it as fact. I'll have to research it and see what I come up with. Good call.

If you do find this quote, please post the link. I would love to settle this issue in my mind, but all I remember seeing was rumors without an actual person's name included to verify who said it.

I'm sure you're right about the military being the reason for his silence. Our son's been in the military for a decade and, yeah, they pretty much own you. lol (Although I don't remember a case where the closest family member hasn't been seen at all, even at a prayer vigil or in the background at a press conference. I know there must be a reason...but I find it very strange.) Also, I agree LE probably (hopefully!) has a lot we don't know about. Of course I thought the same about the McStay case and was SURE there would be an arrest once the bodies were discovered...and here we sit. I hope and pray there are arrests in both these cases in the very near future!

Your statement is very sweet, "All I can say is that I truly hope it was over before she knew what was happening and she died believing in her happily ever after." It gives me some peace that she might not have had time to realize what was happening. Thank you for sharing that.

Now onto the red car! Although I asked that as a joke, since it's kind of a bone of contention around here, your response actually helped me reach a conclusion. From what we know I have my theory worked out...except I'm always stumped when it comes to the statements from the witnesses. I've watched the interviews more than once and think the witnesses are sincere, but I've had a very difficult time reconciling their statements with what we know as facts...until I tried your experiment. I thought about a random man I saw today when I was at a garage sale late this afternoon with my daughter (age 21), and asked her to compare our descriptions. To set the scene, my daughter has a superb memory for details so I trust her descriptions to be correct; I on the other hand have what I would consider a "normal" memory for details. (FYI...I have now lowered the assessment of my memory.)

My description: Hispanic, middle aged, white shirt, dark pants, dark hair, sitting on the steps talking on the phone.
My daughter's description: Hispanic, 19-20 years old, white shirt, dark shorts, dark baseball cap on backwards, dark hair w/long braid down his back, sitting on the steps talking on the phone.

(WHAT???!!!) I missed a baseball cap, shorts instead of pants, a long braid...and I pegged him as an entire generation older than he actually was!

So then I asked my daughter about the woman she talked to regarding the price of an item. (I thought I would do better with this one because I always look at the women when I walk up to a garage sale so I can see their style/size to get an idea if I want to look at the clothes they are selling.) The first thing she said was, "Which woman?" I replied, "Obviously, I mean the middle aged woman you asked about the price." She said, "That woman was the same age as the man on the steps, and the only middle age women were the two at the back of the driveway!" At this point I completely ashen because I didn't even notice there were two additional people at the garage sale!

I then brought up a woman walking a dog in front of a shoe store we visited, but I'm embarrassed to share what little I remembered...while she remembered everything from "her hair needed to be washed" to "the shoes were knock-offs of a name brand." Yeah...I remembered the dog was black. Filled with humiliation, I ended the experiment at that point, but not before she gave me a look I've seen once before...Colonel Potter met Hawkeye in the midst of one of his shenanigans and, with a dead-pan look, simply stated, "I gather you drink." That was the look I received...and deserved.

So anyway, thanks for the little self-discovery exercise. I think. lol Although I've discovered I'm an idiot, I have finally reached a conclusion on the red car. I am now convinced that the witnesses were good people (I'm much better at reading people than remembering details...at least I think I am.), but they were mistaken. Possibly about a lot of things. If I forgot as much as I did in 3 hours (or never even noticed it to begin with), I feel it's quite possible, if not quite likely, they forgot or mis-remembered some details of what they saw approximately 48 hours earlier. Of course, if it turns out their memories were completely accurate, they are obviously related to my daughter...but clearly not from my side of the family.

Glad you shared some more thoughts, IntriguedAgain, and I'm really glad you included the red car! LOL Lots of things to think about in your post...and I dare anyone to try your experiment!!!

 

[vallie]

Just watched an episode of Deadly Women about the murder of Miceala Costanza...killed by a teenage girl and her boyfriend, because of the girl's jealousy of his friendship with Miceala. Just like Diane Zamora case...

o/t yes! i absolutely loved the part where the murderess Toni, thought she was helping her jailed fiance by confessing her part--leading LE to charge her when they weren't even looking for another suspect!! HAH! i saw it on dateline, the parents of Toni were horribly delusional in their excuses for their monster daughter

 

[Nora Charles]

So as I was driving through Yucca Valley tonight and by Tractor Supply, I remembered something. We have that busybody (MOO) IM that made the comment in an interview that Erin had never worked at Tractor Supply even though she had been hired. But I specifically remember reading on the families webpage (Locate Erin) people, more than one, commenting that they had met her or knew her from when she checked them out: at TRACTOR SUPPLY in YUCCA VALLEY.

That's just one more in the long line of BS (MOO) that IM spews.

How interesting!!!

 

[Voice4theSilent]

So as I was driving through Yucca Valley tonight and by Tractor Supply, I remembered something. We have that busybody (MOO) IM that made the comment in an interview that Erin had never worked at Tractor Supply even though she had been hired. But I specifically remember reading on the families webpage (Locate Erin) people, more than one, commenting that they had met her or knew her from when she checked them out: at TRACTOR SUPPLY in YUCCA VALLEY.

That's just one more in the long line of BS (MOO) that IM spews.

Erin worked as a cashier at the Tractor Supply in Tennessee. Perhaps that is where people commenting met her or knew her from?

In her hometown of Oak Ridge, Tenn., she went shooting, rode horses bareback, worked at a Tractor Supply Co. store and was a fixture at a local horse rescue.


http://www.desertsun.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/20/erin-corwin-chronicle-facebook/12905463/

 

[smc1225]

So as I was driving through Yucca Valley tonight and by Tractor Supply, I remembered something. We have that busybody (MOO) IM that made the comment in an interview that Erin had never worked at Tractor Supply even though she had been hired. But I specifically remember reading on the families webpage (Locate Erin) people, more than one, commenting that they had met her or knew her from when she checked them out: at TRACTOR SUPPLY in YUCCA VALLEY.

That's just one more in the long line of BS (MOO) that IM spews.

In Yucca Valley or back in TN? Because she definitely worked at Tractor Supply in TN.

 

[Dmacky]

ren-dez-vous

noun

• a meeting at an agreed time and place, typically between two people.

You're right about the definition but I have to admit that rendezvous sounds a lot more like you're up to no good than just saying she met someone. Almost makes me want to say "ooooohhhh" LOL

LOL Maskedwoman ~
I have to admit I have never actually looked up the meaning of "rendezvous." That word just sounds so ....sneaky? to me. For example, I am spending the day with my cousin for lunch and shopping. Since we are both coming from 2 different area's, we are meeting in the middle and she will be driving. It would never occur to me to say "I'm having a rendezvous with my cousin today" :giggle:

 

[NYC Girl]

Thank you, ShadeTree44 for the helpful post and for bringing us back to the red car. When I first heard this case, I didn't put too much into the fact that time had passed from 7:00 to 10:00 or 10:30 before this incident. In my mind, okay, she left at 7:00, ran some errands and planned to meet CL at 10:00. No big deal. But, now that I think about it in light of what we know, if these two planned to spend the day together, of course they would want as much time together as possible, so they would have met much sooner than 10:00 and not waste some of what might be the last time together for a long while.

To the person who said, maybe he left her somewhere. I agree that is possible. There might be people who couldn't actually commit a murder as in choking or shooting, but could leave someone to die. They might be able to justify it in their mind somehow, or think it wasn't murder, or that God wouldn't frown on it quite so much or something. "If she's meant to live, she will manage to." Or, in his mind, maybe he would find himself harmless in the baby's death if he just left her somewhere. It could also have been unplanned. They go out, in his mind he's going to "talk some sense into her" of some sort, she is irrational in his mind, they argue and he just leaves her standing somewhere. He freaks out and just starts driving. He has NL help him by moving her car. So many possibilities.

I keep coming back to this thought. JC realizes his wife is missing for several hours. He is hoping against hope that CL isn't missing, too. As the hours go by, he learns that CL was gone but is back. He realizes that is even worse.

 

[Dmacky]

Snipped by me...


If you do find this quote, please post the link. I would love to settle this issue in my mind, but all I remember seeing was rumors without an actual person's name included to verify who said it.

I'm sure you're right about the military being the reason for his silence. Our son's been in the military for a decade and, yeah, they pretty much own you. lol (Although I don't remember a case where the closest family member hasn't been seen at all, even at a prayer vigil or in the background at a press conference. I know there must be a reason...but I find it very strange.) Also, I agree LE probably (hopefully!) has a lot we don't know about. Of course I thought the same about the McStay case and was SURE there would be an arrest once the bodies were discovered...and here we sit. I hope and pray there are arrests in both these cases in the very near future!

Your statement is very sweet, "All I can say is that I truly hope it was over before she knew what was happening and she died believing in her happily ever after." It gives me some peace that she might not have had time to realize what was happening. Thank you for sharing that.

Now onto the red car! Although I asked that as a joke, since it's kind of a bone of contention around here, your response actually helped me reach a conclusion. From what we know I have my theory worked out...except I'm always stumped when it comes to the statements from the witnesses. I've watched the interviews more than once and think the witnesses are sincere, but I've had a very difficult time reconciling their statements with what we know as facts...until I tried your experiment. I thought about a random man I saw today when I was at a garage sale late this afternoon with my daughter (age 21), and asked her to compare our descriptions. To set the scene, my daughter has a superb memory for details so I trust her descriptions to be correct; I on the other hand have what I would consider a "normal" memory for details. (FYI...I have now lowered the assessment of my memory.)

My description: Hispanic, middle aged, white shirt, dark pants, dark hair, sitting on the steps talking on the phone.
My daughter's description: Hispanic, 19-20 years old, white shirt, dark shorts, dark baseball cap on backwards, dark hair w/long braid down his back, sitting on the steps talking on the phone.

(WHAT???!!!) I missed a baseball cap, shorts instead of pants, a long braid...and I pegged him as an entire generation older than he actually was!

So then I asked my daughter about the woman she talked to regarding the price of an item. (I thought I would do better with this one because I always look at the women when I walk up to a garage sale so I can see their style/size to get an idea if I want to look at the clothes they are selling.) The first thing she said was, "Which woman?" I replied, "Obviously, I mean the middle aged woman you asked about the price." She said, "That woman was the same age as the man on the steps, and the only middle age women were the two at the back of the driveway!" At this point I completely ashen because I didn't even notice there were two additional people at the garage sale!

I then brought up a woman walking a dog in front of a shoe store we visited, but I'm embarrassed to share what little I remembered...while she remembered everything from "her hair needed to be washed" to "the shoes were knock-offs of a name brand." Yeah...I remembered the dog was black. Filled with humiliation, I ended the experiment at that point, but not before she gave me a look I've seen once before...Colonel Potter met Hawkeye in the midst of one of his shenanigans and, with a dead-pan look, simply stated, "I gather you drink." That was the look I received...and deserved.

So anyway, thanks for the little self-discovery exercise. I think. lol Although I've discovered I'm an idiot, I have finally reached a conclusion on the red car. I am now convinced that the witnesses were good people (I'm much better at reading people than remembering details...at least I think I am.), but they were mistaken. Possibly about a lot of things. If I forgot as much as I did in 3 hours (or never even noticed it to begin with), I feel it's quite possible, if not quite likely, they forgot or mis-remembered some details of what they saw approximately 48 hours earlier. Of course, if it turns out their memories were completely accurate, they are obviously related to my daughter...but clearly not from my side of the family.

Glad you shared some more thoughts, IntriguedAgain, and I'm really glad you included the red car! LOL Lots of things to think about in your post...and I dare anyone to try your experiment!!!

Great post as always Nora,
The only difference is that most of us live in a more populated area. There are so many distractions. They're all other the place. Street traffic, people coming in and out of places, ect... MB (the eyewitness) lived in a very desolate area. Dirt roads, and desert land everywhere you look. There are no distractions. He noticed the red car because it looked new, and was VERY CLEAN....Something that would I think, grab your attention since most cars would probably have dirt or sand on them most of the time. He even said it was a small sedan, like a kia (I think?) I may be totally wrong, but I think if your going down a road like that one where there is hardly any traffic and absolutely no other distractions ~ it would be easier to remember what you saw. MOO~
I wonder if CL rented a red car that day?

 

[NYC Girl]

Great post as always Nora,
The only difference is that most of us live in a more populated area. There are so many distractions. They're all other the place. Street traffic, people coming in and out of places, ect... MB (the eyewitness) lived in a very desolate area. Dirt roads, and desert land everywhere you look. There are no distractions. He noticed the red car because it looked new, and was VERY CLEAN....Something that would I think, grab your attention since most cars would probably have dirt or sand on them most of the time. He even said it was a small sedan, like a kia (I think?) I may be totally wrong, but I think if your going down a road like that one where there is hardly any traffic and absolutely no other distractions ~ it would be easier to remember what you saw. MOO~
I wonder if CL rented a red car that day?

Great points!

 

[maskedwoman]

Snipped by me...


So anyway, thanks for the little self-discovery exercise. I think. lol Although I've discovered I'm an idiot, I have finally reached a conclusion on the red car. I am now convinced that the witnesses were good people (I'm much better at reading people than remembering details...at least I think I am.), but they were mistaken. Possibly about a lot of things. If I forgot as much as I did in 3 hours (or never even noticed it to begin with), I feel it's quite possible, if not quite likely, they forgot or mis-remembered some details of what they saw approximately 48 hours earlier. Of course, if it turns out their memories were completely accurate, they are obviously related to my daughter...but clearly not from my side of the family.

Glad you shared some more thoughts, IntriguedAgain, and I'm really glad you included the red car! LOL Lots of things to think about in your post...and I dare anyone to try your experiment!!!

snipped by me..

BTW, did I ever tell you that I "hear" all your posts in Nora's voice? I love it.

I am a big people watcher and have to keep an eye on 25 people every day, so I'm probably related to your daughter (wink), but the experiment raises an interesting question for me. We don't really know whether MB would be related to you or your daughter (ha), so it's hard to know how much weight to give his statement.

Does the red car really exist or not? Did he simply get the color wrong, was he totally mistaken about WHO he saw that morning, or WHAT car the person was getting out of? What about his sister? Is she someone who wouldn't be easily led into thinking something that might not be accurate? Or is she the sort of person who, while talking to her brother, either gets talked into seeing things his way or keeps coming up with new details that may or may not be correct?

My issues with MB and his sister are:

*No one involved seems to own a red car
*WSers and others did some very solid car sleuthing, but no red car seems to have surfaced here or anywhere else, even as a rumor
*We don't know if MB is color-blind, and we can't consider that MB might have actually seen CL in IM's green car without knowing that
*Even assuming MB is correct about what he saw, on the days his sister would have seen the car, there was no reason for it to be important. Why would she take so much notice of an anonymous parked car, that she would even notice it was moved?
*I am having a hard time thinking that a brother and sister both noticed something important to this case, on different days, without discussing it and likely contaminating and amplifying their recollections

After considering all these issues, I've decided that MB and his sister may very well be genuine people who want to help, but I have to set their statements aside for now.

 

[missgulfsouth]

JC realizes his wife is missing for several hours. He is hoping against hope that CL isn't missing, too. As the hours go by, he learns that CL was gone but is back. He realizes that is even worse.

*shivers*

 

[Love Never Fails]

There haven't been any links posted here. For some reason the media in Alaska isn't reporting anything...even though some WS members contacted the media with information on this case!

This is simple to me....LE wants CL to feel safe. They are watching him and waiting and they have asked LE and journalists there to keep it quiet. That's good LE to me. They are looking for something.

 

[Love Never Fails]

snipped by me..

BTW, did I ever tell you that I "hear" all your posts in Nora's voice? I love it.

I am a big people watcher and have to keep an eye on 25 people every day, so I'm probably related to your daughter (wink), but the experiment raises an interesting question for me. We don't really know whether MB would be related to you or your daughter (ha), so it's hard to know how much weight to give his statement.

Does the red car really exist or not? Did he simply get the color wrong, was he totally mistaken about WHO he saw that morning, or WHAT car the person was getting out of? What about his sister? Is she someone who wouldn't be easily led into thinking something that might not be accurate? Or is she the sort of person who, while talking to her brother, either gets talked into seeing things his way or keeps coming up with new details that may or may not be correct?

My issues with MB and his sister are:

*No one involved seems to own a red car
*WSers and others did some very solid car sleuthing, but no red car seems to have surfaced here or anywhere else, even as a rumor
*We don't know if MB is color-blind, and we can't consider that MB might have actually seen CL in IM's green car without knowing that
*Even assuming MB is correct about what he saw, on the days his sister would have seen the car, there was no reason for it to be important. Why would she take so much notice of an anonymous parked car, that she would even notice it was moved?
*I am having a hard time thinking that a brother and sister both noticed something important to this case, on different days, without discussing it and likely contaminating and amplifying their recollections

After considering all these issues, I've decided that MB and his sister may very well be genuine people who want to help, but I have to set their statements aside for now.

I truly believe MB and his sister. My husband is color blind and wouldn't know a red car if he saw one. If MB is color blind maybe he should tell LE. But I do believe their story.

 

[cluciano63]

Erin worked as a cashier at the Tractor Supply in Tennessee. Perhaps that is where people commenting met her or knew her from?

In her hometown of Oak Ridge, Tenn., she went shooting, rode horses bareback, worked at a Tractor Supply Co. store and was a fixture at a local horse rescue.


http://www.desertsun.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/20/erin-corwin-chronicle-facebook/12905463/

I knew I read that she went shooting in TN.

 

[cluciano63]

I truly believe MB and his sister. My husband is color blind and wouldn't know a red car if he saw one. If MB is color blind maybe he should tell LE. But I do believe their story.

But is his sister also colorblind?