CA CA - Farren Stanberry, 18, San Francisco, 24 Apr 1980

[Satch]

He was also a 10 minute walk away from Union Square and the Cable Cars at Powell St. In 1980 there was a Visitor Information Center located there which closed in 2018. A service offered even today in another location is discount ticket packages. This location have been where Farren worked selling tickets for Marriot. The map is marked to show how close this was to where Farren lived. The green circle is the National Hotel, the blue circle is the visitor center. So if he left for work one day and disappeared, is the area between these two locations where something would have happened to him?View attachment 434568View attachment 434569View attachment 434570

Why doesn't the National Hotel appear to be named on the map? Great work! Thank you for this!

Satch

 

[Maat99]

Why doesn't the National Hotel appear to be named on the map? Great work! Thank you for this!

Satch

it is a map of tourist destinations and SF landmarks. So no hotels are named on the map. Farren’s hotel was in between 7th and 8th, on Market - so my circle should actually be up closer to Market.

 

[KathPlumber]

here are some BART press releases from 1978 that show the kind of transport packages offered to get people to the Great America park. As with the “gay day” there seem to be like middle man companies partly organising these things? For the Gay Day there was a company mentioned called “Great Outdoors America” and here the BART and bus line seem to be benefiting also?

It’s so confusing for someone who doesn’t understand how things like social services or indeed the financial situation generally works in the USA!

I really wish I could track down Peter Hume, sales rep for the Marriott’S Great America in 1981… but alas I don’t seem to be able to!

 

[KathPlumber]

Also athis might be useful for understanding how they employed ticket touts if we could find a later version of it. It’s an annual General Report for Marriott in 1975. Can anyone find a later one?

 

[KathPlumber]

He was also a 10 minute walk away from Union Square and the Cable Cars at Powell St. In 1980 there was a Visitor Information Center located there which closed in 2018. A service offered even today in another location is discount ticket packages. This location have been where Farren worked selling tickets for Marriot. The map is marked to show how close this was to where Farren lived. The green circle is the National Hotel, the blue circle is the visitor center. So if he left for work one day and disappeared, is the area between these two locations where something would have happened to him?View attachment 434568View attachment 434569View attachment 434570

Amazing. This seems highly likely, doesn’t it. I will go over some of the maps in the Crusader and see what else lines up in that area. There were a few known trouble spots that’s for sure

 

[Ciriii57]

Hopefully the Unclaimed Property office will respond with more info. Both Unclaimed Property and Social Security would still have records from then.

I'm hopeful of a response...and if not I will just pester them until they either respond or arrest me haha

Regarding Social Security, this confused me actually. The below was part of an exchange with Sgt Rand:

ME: 2) Was it ever established where Farren actually worked (since he apparently left for work) and if so, did he ever arrive there or what was his route?
Rand: The answer to 1 and 2 is I wish I had an answer.

I found it really odd that they wouldn't know and I assumed that they must have checked his Social security history. I could be wrong and if so someone please correct me, but after some detailed research it seems that in order to check a person's social security history LE would need to get a warrant. Is it possible that this was either never sought or never given? I don't know on what grounds a warrant would or wouldn't be issued but it seems that the SSN is not always checked in a missing person's case if there aren't grounds to check it (ie if there is no reason to think that employment history would be useful).
I know that RC had contacted them and they said there as no activity since his disappearance, but I don't think they provided a work history to him.

IF his SSN was checked out and revealed no information then that means that Farren never had a legitimate job, but I find it impossible to believe that this unclaimed property wasn't Farren and I am pretty sure that even a street vendor was legit otherwise the paycheck wouldn't have come from Marriott.

 

[Ciriii57]

He was also a 10 minute walk away from Union Square and the Cable Cars at Powell St. In 1980 there was a Visitor Information Center located there which closed in 2018. A service offered even today in another location is discount ticket packages. This location have been where Farren worked selling tickets for Marriot. The map is marked to show how close this was to where Farren lived. The green circle is the National Hotel, the blue circle is the visitor center. So if he left for work one day and disappeared, is the area between these two locations where something would have happened to him?View attachment 434568View attachment 434569View attachment 434570

Thanks! Great info!
I think it is a really good bet that he was working that area, but it seems like a pretty central and busy area for someone to disappear from, right? Certainly I doubt you could be kidnapped from there.

@Maat99 you mentioned you used to live closeby, can you think of any likley scenario of someone disappearing in the area where Farren was likely working at that time? Or can you think of a reason Farren may have gone somewhere else with someone? And a long shot, but aprt from the Bay, can you think of anywhere in SF that a body would remain hidden/undiscovered after all this time?

 

[Ciriii57]

If Farren was regarded as an independent contractor with selling tickets would that have been reported to SS? If it was his new job he wouldn't have paid any SS taxes yet as an independent contractor if that's what he was possibly regarded as. Maybe a dumb question but I don't know everything and an earlier post saying maybe if he was a street vendor/ticket seller it wouldn't be reported got me thinking.

hey @summergirl1 I am pretty cluless when it comes to taxes, and I know nothing about the US system of tax payments etc but do you know whether if he was an independent contractor then he would still recieve a paycheck from the Marriott Corporation? Is an independent contractor the same as self employed?

 

[summergirl1]

Independent contractors can get a paycheck from a employer, but they are doing more independent work and are responsible for paying into Social Security themselves when they file taxes every year (before a certain date in April) rather than the employer taking out their contribution to Social Security from each paycheck. Independent contractors would technically be regarded as self employed, but can work for an employer doing more independent work, only they aren't an employee for SS purposes ( or taxes, but I'm just writing about the SS part as that's what is relevant to finding out where Farren worked). I don't understand all of it though I'm from the US, but I'll look more into it. Maybe the Marriot archivest would know if these tickets sellers would have been regarded as independent contractors back then?

 

[Ciriii57]

Also athis might be useful for understanding how they employed ticket touts if we could find a later version of it. It’s an annual General Report for Marriott in 1975. Can anyone find a later one?

Hey @KathPlumber here is the 1980 one:

Marriott Corporation, 1980 Annual Report

One of thousands of free digital items from the University of Houston Libraries Digital Collections.

digitalcollections.lib.uh.edu

I couldn't find any useful information except that they they were focusing on more inventive marketing strategies after a loss in 1979...perhaps bringing in tourists from SF:

 

[Ciriii57]

Maybe the Marriot archivest would know if these tickets sellers would have been regarded as independent contractors back then?

I emailed her with some of our questions and she has gotten straight back to me!

Good morning – No worries I'm happy to assist if I can.
No from what I can gather there was not a ticket office or "booth". It is possible the ticket agents were given designated spots but I believe they would have been free to move around.
The ticketbooks, maps and other material would have been sent to persons who then distributed them between the sales team. I'm sorry but I can't find any information on where this happened but I don't believe the restaurant chains would have been involved because they operated as separate businesses.

I have just asked a co-worker from our HR Dept. and he says that yes you are correct, due to the temporary nature of the job most of these workers would be independent contractors. He also pointed out that the ticket sellers may have been selling tickets for several different businesses concurrently or could have worked for just a few weeks at a time so it wouldn't have made sense to enter into a permanent contract with Marriott. In fact about 43% of Marriott employees today are independent contractors.

Hope that was helpful; good luck with your search.

So what does this mean in terms of Farren? Does it mean that he never made any social security contributions so in that case they would have no record of him? That does make sense of the fact that neither LE nor RC could seem to find out anything about his job? Or would he still be on record just because he had a job?
Does that mean that Farren, and others like him, were expected to work out and pay his own taxes? I can't imagine me at 18 having any clue about how to do that!! Or could it be that they just didn't bother? I just can't imagine me being able to plan in advance to save up for a big tax bill?!

 

[Odyssey]

I emailed her with some of our questions and she has gotten straight back to me!



So what does this mean in terms of Farren? Does it mean that he never made any social security contributions so in that case they would have no record of him? That does make sense of the fact that neither LE nor RC could seem to find out anything about his job? Or would he still be on record just because he had a job?
Does that mean that Farren, and others like him, were expected to work out and pay his own taxes? I can't imagine me at 18 having any clue about how to do that!! Or could it be that they just didn't bother? I just can't imagine me being able to plan in advance to save up for a big tax bill?!

Yes, if you're a contractor you have to handle your own taxes. I don't think the process is much different than if you're an employee, the difference is that the employer wouldn't have withheld any taxes.

And yes, contractors don't have to pay social security as far as I know and their income from being a contractor doesn't count toward any benefits.

Also you have to earn over a certain amount to be required to pay taxes. I have no idea what that amount was in 1980 but if he only worked low paying jobs for just a few months, he probably didn't need to worry about it.

 

[Satch]

Guys,

To help us with that unclaimed check, what are the main reasons that the other "F. Stanberry" appears to be a rule out? Was it ever determined where the other F. Stanberry might have lived based on the check? I also think that the money is Farren's.

 

[Maat99]

Thanks! Great info!
I think it is a really good bet that he was working that area, but it seems like a pretty central and busy area for someone to disappear from, right? Certainly I doubt you could be kidnapped from there.

@Maat99 you mentioned you used to live closeby, can you think of any likley scenario of someone disappearing in the area where Farren was likely working at that time? Or can you think of a reason Farren may have gone somewhere else with someone? And a long shot, but aprt from the Bay, can you think of anywhere in SF that a body would remain hidden/undiscovered after all this time?

It could depend on which route he took and when. The Tenderloin (bad area) is next to Union Sq (Tourist area) so If he crossed Market and walked up Leavenworth and went right on Eddy, it could be relatively deserted in the AM. And not everyone hanging around there would even be willing to call the police if they saw something. The other question is would the police have responded and pursued an incident report if one was made? I wish someone could access the SF police archives from that time to see if anything suspicious was reported but oddly, the Terderloin Station is the only one without any archival station logs.
I can’t imagine a dead body going undiscovered but maybe someone could have snatched him..?

 

[Satch]

I emailed her with some of our questions and she has gotten straight back to me!



So what does this mean in terms of Farren? Does it mean that he never made any social security contributions so in that case they would have no record of him? That does make sense of the fact that neither LE nor RC could seem to find out anything about his job? Or would he still be on record just because he had a job?
Does that mean that Farren, and others like him, were expected to work out and pay his own taxes? I can't imagine me at 18 having any clue about how to do that!! Or could it be that they just didn't bother? I just can't imagine me being able to plan in advance to save up for a big tax bill?!

Guys,

I Google Searched how hard it would be to go through life in the USA without a Social Security Number. It is possible, but you need a Social Security number to do the following things:

• Applying for a job
• Applying for government benefits
• Opening a bank account
• Applying for credit
• Filing taxes
  Without a Social Security number, many of these tasks would be much more difficult, if not impossible. Additionally, many organizations and businesses use Social Security numbers to verify identities, so not having one could make it difficult to prove who you are.

Do we know for sure that Farren never used his Social Security number after his disappearance? Did this come from RC? or from LE? I wish there was a way to do a background check to find out when Farren last used his Social Security number!

Satch

 

[Odyssey]

Guys,

To help us with that unclaimed check, what are the main reasons that the other "F. Stanberry" appears to be a rule out? Was it ever determined where the other F. Stanberry might have lived based on the check? I also think that the money is Farren's.

As far as I know, the only basis for ruling out the other F Stanberry's that were in California is the connection to the theme park.

If the paycheck is indeed for ticket sales for the theme park, it would be from the SF area and not Southern California. Also, Marriott no longer owned the theme park after 1982-1986-ish so the paycheck would have to be earlier than that.

If the paycheck had been from a hotel employee or something, it could have been anywhere in California and from any time frame.

 

[Ciriii57]

As far as I know, the only basis for ruling out the other F Stanberry's that were in California is the connection to the theme park.

If the paycheck is indeed for ticket sales for the theme park, it would be from the SF area and not Southern California. Also, Marriott no longer owned the theme park after 1982-1986-ish so the paycheck would have to be earlier than that.

If the paycheck had been from a hotel employee or something, it could have been anywhere in California and from any time frame.

I'm hoping the unclaimed properties people will be able to confirm this information.
Despite the Marriott archivist believing it is a paycheck from Great American, and seemingly this would fit in with where Farren was and what he was likely doing, she couldn't actually confirm it was Farren's.
The timing, the information from Marriott and the sheer coincidence of 2 out of 4 F.Stanberrys in California having unclaimed property suggests that they are both Farren's. The fact that it is a paycheck also makes me believe so because how many people would not collect a paycheck for almost 100 dollars unless they couldn't for some reason...the chances are slim that it's 2 different F Stanberrys.
But cannot be 100%.
(I've always believed it's his though)

 

[Ciriii57]

Yes, if you're a contractor you have to handle your own taxes. I don't think the process is much different than if you're an employee, the difference is that the employer wouldn't have withheld any taxes.

And yes, contractors don't have to pay social security as far as I know and their income from being a contractor doesn't count toward any benefits.

Also you have to earn over a certain amount to be required to pay taxes. I have no idea what that amount was in 1980 but if he only worked low paying jobs for just a few months, he probably didn't need to worry about it.

Thanks that helps a lot. I must admit I was baffled at how's young ticket seller living in an SRO was supposed to afford a huge tax bill in one lump sum!

So just to clarify. We can forget income tax as he was likely under the threshold to have to pay.
Regarding Social security, contractors don't need to pay at all or they do at the end of the tax year?
So, assuming Farren didn't have to pay social security or hadn't yet submitted anything (he wasn't due to pay anything yet) would he appear on social security records? I assume Marriott would still have taken his SSN? Would they share it with any government agency? Is there an agency keeping tabs on everyone who is employed (self employed or otherwise?).

I'm just wondering if this is the reason why he seemingly had no employment history when either LE or RC checked?

(Wow I never thought Farren's thread would become a discussion on taxes haha!)

 

[Satch]

I'm hoping the unclaimed properties people will be able to confirm this information.
Despite the Marriott archivist believing it is a paycheck from Great American, and seemingly this would fit in with where Farren was and what he was likely doing, she couldn't actually confirm it was Farren's.
The timing, the information from Marriott and the sheer coincidence of 2 out of 4 F.Stanberrys in California having unclaimed property suggests that they are both Farren's. The fact that it is a paycheck also makes me believe so because how many people would not collect a paycheck for almost 100 dollars unless they couldn't for some reason...the chances are slim that it's 2 different F Stanberrys.
But cannot be 100%.
(I've always believed it's his though)

Agree @Ciriii57

I Googled, how much would $100 in 1980 be worth today in 2023?

$100 in 1980 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $370.28 today, an increase of $270.28 over 43 years. The dollar had an average inflation rate of 3.09% per year between 1980 and today, producing a cumulative price increase of 270.28%.

That's quite a bit of money, especially if we are sure Farren was a ticket vendor or promotional agent for Marriott. Hard to see someone not claiming this, unless they......couldn't.

Satch

 

[summergirl1]

It does make sense that Farren would have been regarded as an independent contractor. They are required to pay into Social Security themselves as well as pay taxes themselves so if over a certain amount SS will have record of it , but if this was his new job it was past tax season so it would definitely make sense for Social Security to have no record of him working at this job.

I don't think Marriott was required to report anything to Social Security as it would have been Farren's responsibility to pay into SS during the next tax season. I don't know that for sure. I do know the rest about independent contractors in the US for sure though as I know someone who works as an independent contractor for a flyer delivery company and he always has complicated taxes and he has to pay into Social Security himself. Farren wouldn't have had to pay SS if it was under a certain amount, that is true, I'd assume ( as with taxes). I did read online that companies have to report on a form to the IRS if someone is an independent contractor, but I don't think it's the same for Social Security. So all this would explain why if LE looked at his SS record from before he vanished, that this presumed job wouldn't have been on it. Maybe the Marriot archivist would know if Marriot was required to report independent contractors to SS. They would have had to do that for the IRS, but probably not Social Security.