GUILTY CA - Gianni, 24, & Sal Belvedere, 22, Ilona Flint, 22, San Diego, 24 Dec 2013 - #1

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elmomom said:
At this point with the information we have it seems just as likely that Salvatore was taking her to the mall to Xmas shop for Gianni since she did not have her own transportation. Your scenario is possible as well, but for now I think we should treat Gianni as a victim (missing person) and not a perpetrator.
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That's exactly what I assumed was probably the case when this all came out - about them being brothers, them driving her places b/c she didn't have a car, etc.

But it's also why the fact that at least someone in their family didn't know why they would be together seems to make me take pause in that line of thought.

I definitely HOPE that is the case.

And it definitely should be something that would be easy for officers to have found out early on, if, for instance bags were found in the car, etc. Even without being able to talk to I, S, or G, that would at least help indicate if it was leaning in that direction.

Plus, if their families are as close as everything seems to indicate, and they've known one another so long, even if they weren't Christmas shopping for G (or anyone else) I would think in most cases people wouldn't really bat an eye.

Why shouldn't they go shopping together? They've known one another for ages. It seems they have a circle of mutual friends - they could be shopping for anyone together, really...

It's just how that reconciles with at least what one family member apparently stated that throws a slight kink into that, I think.

Like I said at the end of one of my other posts, I really hope they find Gianni and soon. There is entirely too much heartbreak for these poor two families, I can't imagine how not knowing where Gianni is and if he's ok - and, frankly, putting their minds a bit more at ease and not having the same question others have about what went on that night - has to be adding to the pain.
 
This comment in that article is extremely interesting to me:

A Medical Examiner’s investigator said Friday that their case on Salvatore Belvedere was ordered by homicide investigators to be sealed, so no information about the time or cause of his death was available.
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It makes me wonder if he actually really died earlier and for some reason they didn't want that known publicly (perhaps hoping it would lead to more information about what happened somehow?)

The fact that they're not wanting his CoD to be revealed is very strange. What would it be beside a gunshot wound to the head and chest? We know he was shot and in critical condition and near death from the beginning from his wounds.

The only thing I can think of is if HE shot Ilona (thus explaining why SHE called 911 and not him) and then perhaps at least one of the gunshots to himself was actually self-inflicted?

Or if he shot her, then he was shot in revenge for that?

But still, that wouldn't explain the issue of his CoD possibly being anything other than a gunshot wound. Unless it were that it'd be a self-inflicted wound, right? THAT would be differentiated from just a gunshot wound, wouldn't it?
 
I really wish they would find Gianni. I am very concerned that he is deceased. If he isn't, I am very concerned that he will harm himself.
I am definitely on the fence about this. With that last bit about the ME case being sealed, I am leaning, ever so slightly, to believing that Salvatore was the shooter.
 
Thanks for all your hard work TravelingBug

I think you have covered every aspect. Will have to wait to see what CCTV shows up.

Your scenerio of the car being moved is very plausible. I also think .Iona was shot a second time with a fatal bullet. It seems improbable that she was able to make the 911 call in the manner that she did and then die from her wounds. Also not mentioning anything about Salvatore was odd especially when he was shot too. But maybe he was not shot at that time. Maybe they went separately in the shop to do Christmas shopping. She could have been shot once while waiting for him and then they were both shot when he returned to the car. JMO
 
TravelingBug said:
This comment in that article is extremely interesting to me:



It makes me wonder if he actually really died earlier and for some reason they didn't want that known publicly (perhaps hoping it would lead to more information about what happened somehow?)

The fact that they're not wanting his CoD to be revealed is very strange. What would it be beside a gunshot wound to the head and chest? We know he was shot and in critical condition and near death from the beginning from his wounds.

The only thing I can think of is if HE shot Ilona (thus explaining why SHE called 911 and not him) and then perhaps at least one of the gunshots to himself was actually self-inflicted?

Or if he shot her, then he was shot in revenge for that?

But still, that wouldn't explain the issue of his CoD possibly being anything other than a gunshot wound. Unless it were that it'd be a self-inflicted wound, right? THAT would be differentiated from just a gunshot wound, wouldn't it?
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RIP Salvatore...

Thank you so much TravelingBug for all of your insight and information on this one! Although I have lived here for over 30 years and know the lay of the land I am just a wannabe sleuth and not here very much and was hoping someone local would take the lead.

I had heard on the KFMB last night that Salvatore was at the mall to pick up Ilona who was working there over the Christmas holidays to make a little money. I have yet to see it in any form of MSM but just another thought.

Thank you TravelingBug :gthanks:
 
Wolf Dreamer said:
It's possible that Ilona wasn't "calm" but in shock - I have known people appear to be extremely calm in difficult situations but actually it is because shock has shut their systems down. That could also account for her not actually knowing where she was.
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Yeah...I almost said that in one of my (ridiculously lengthy) other posts.

I can't pinpoint why, listening to it - especially hearing it as the call came in - that just...I don't even know how to explain it.

I think, on some level, it's more the location issue that that doesn't quite meld with things for me. Especially because I do get the shock and calm thing - having made a 911 call myself that way, and hours later that still being my state, though I also knew I HAD to get as much information to officers as quickly as I could imperative.

But that and the location thing are where I'm...mulling things over, I guess.

Even locals who have lived here forever are known to flip flop Mission and Fashion Valley malls. They're very nearby. And I'm not sure I know a single person who has lived here and never inadvertently planned to meet someone and one or the other went to the wrong mall by mistake b/c they weren't clear or just weren't thinking.

And while Fashion Valley is basically self-contained, just a few restaurants not really in the interior of the mall (though it's an outdoor mall...if that makes sense?) Mission Valley really isn't to the same degree.

There's a chunk of little restaurants in the Target part of the lot. Michael's really IS at the edge of the mall but no one really considers it part of the mall. People would say they're going to Michael's, not the mall typically. And because there are two (uncharacteristically expansive) stores that are on the property and also technically in the mall - Target and Bed, Bath & Beyond - but really more "separate" outings to most, Mission Valley is just a strange "bird." Unless you are going to just wander the whole thing, it kind of functions unlike a regular mall and definitely not like Fashion Valley.

Plus, there are strip malls basically fully around two sides of the mall just across the streets. And people sort of lump those in, often, too.

It makes saying you're going to Mission Valley VERY vague, essentially.

While yes it narrows things down, I'm actually more surprised she didn't say she was at Macy's, had they actually been at the mall prior (and I'm not fully convinced they were)

So her managing to get out that she was at Mission Valley but nothing else is what puzzles me. It's SO easy to misspeak that mall wise - and she didn't.

She was very clear on Mission Valley - which then makes not knowing or not being able to tell from looking around make me think the very initial part, at least, may not have happened where they were actually found.

The oddity of that area is actually, I'm sure, why officers weren't just at the mall - which they knew was closed - they were in all the peripheral places looking for Ilona, as well, because it's all a weird jumbly mess basically, and they didn't know if she meant the literal mall or one of the more peripheral parts, or what.

It's so hard to explain what I'm trying to to...I'm sorry :blushing:
 
I asked about her relationship with both brothers based on the photo back on page 1 of this thread. I found the body language between the three of them to be quite interesting.
 
elmomom said:
I really wish they would find Gianni. I am very concerned that he is deceased. If he isn't, I am very concerned that he will harm himself.
I am definitely on the fence about this. With that last bit about the ME case being sealed, I am leaning, ever so slightly, to believing that Salvatore was the shooter.
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I really hope they find him soon, as well.

And I absolutely agree with the bolded.

If he were totally innocent I could see losing your fiancee and brother in a brutal shooting something that might drive him to... I could see knowing that, sort of like they always look at the spouse or whoever last someone, he'll be looked at even if he's entirely innocent something that might drive him to...I could see doing it if he discovered information or had reason to think someone he knew had a hand in it...And I could see him doing it (or already having done so) if he were involved somehow.

And if whatever happened has been done by an entirely unknown/unpublicized type individual, then I think it's highly unlikely he's alive somewhere, because if they shot and killed Salvatore and Ilona, there's little reason to think they wouldn't shoot and kill him as well.

Blech. Hate this! I just feel so badly for their families and really hope they find Gianni because the degree to which this not knowing has to be compounding their pain is just tremendous.
 
Marg from Oz said:
Thanks for all your hard work TravelingBug

I think you have covered every aspect. Will have to wait to see what CCTV shows up.

Your scenerio of the car being moved is very plausible. I also think .Iona was shot a second time with a fatal bullet. It seems improbable that she was able to make the 911 call in the manner that she did and then die from her wounds. Also not mentioning anything about Salvatore was odd especially when he was shot too. But maybe he was not shot at that time. Maybe they went separately in the shop to do Christmas shopping. She could have been shot once while waiting for him and then they were both shot when he returned to the car. JMO
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Those two were my first thoughts as I listened to it all play out.

Once I heard it wasn't just the then believed to be sole female person shot, I was surprised - based on her call.

Then once they said there was an 11-44 (death) I was sure it was the second person.

I don't remember now if they had even stated whether the second person was male or female yet at that point.

Shortly after, when it was said that the one who died was female I was floored. Because that obviously meant that the caller was the one who had died since they hadn't stated it was the RP who died, meaning they couldn't both be female or they'd have to have clarified which one.

I literally said out loud (and I'm not in the habit of talking to myself!) "Wait...what?! She's the one that called 911!"

It all happened SO quickly I seriously was SURE they were mistaken and there were either two females or somebody made a major mistake!

That in that short of time she went from able to call 911 and calmly (whether from shock or not) relay some information, yet be dead when officers got there and not even an attempt to transport her was made because it was clear that was futile just doesn't compute for me. Especially after some other calls where it's pretty clear the person is already dead, but they make a last ditch effort just in case or something...

Interestingly, at least to me, is that in one of the PC's Hastings did, the question isn't fully audible, but clearly about location to some degree. You can get the gist of it in the answer he gave - but I wish he had repeated the question like most do - which was essentially, we can't rule out that they may have moved around some after being shot.
 
I also suspect that, assuming it's none of the parties involved in any way, whoever killed them is not going to be a stranger.

That in some way there will be a connection to at least one - if not all - of them.

No robbery points to that.

No indication of a sexual in nature motive points to that.

And I think the fact that a third individual's whereabouts are unknown points to that.

Because unless one of the three was involved, it seems next to impossible that a random person or random individuals would be responsible for something happening to three individuals - and only three that night - who all are connected to one another but weren't actually all together.

The odds of that surely are almost nil, no?
 
SDHELPS said:
RIP Salvatore...

Thank you so much TravelingBug for all of your insight and information on this one! Although I have lived here for over 30 years and know the lay of the land I am just a wannabe sleuth and not here very much and was hoping someone local would take the lead.

I had heard on the KFMB last night that Salvatore was at the mall to pick up Ilona who was working there over the Christmas holidays to make a little money. I have yet to see it in any form of MSM but just another thought.

Thank you TravelingBug :gthanks:
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I wondered about that possibility when they were talking about them both giving her rides!

I wonder if that's really the case or if it was how someone interpreted the comment about them giving her rides (someone at KFMB, I mean)?

If he/they were in the habit of picking her up, I don't know why a family member would say they weren't sure why they were there together (or then really why she wouldn't have known where she was) but I could see that "fitting" on some levels.

Including that this happened a bit after 1, so if she had worked a closing shift somewhere else store wise it would be a kind of logical time...few minutes to put away her things or whatever and get out the door. (Although admittedly I have no idea what else might have been open till at least 1. Target had been my guess as to what was the only thing that might have been open till 2 when they were first trying to figure out where in the mall she might be when the call came in...never dreamed Macy's, of all things, would be open so late! Ha)

Very interesting!

I'm glad you caught that and am very curious to see if it gets reported elsewhere (or in print) now!
 
Any local happen to have watched KNSD at 6 am? I didn't have the news on, but this was on twitter from a few hours ago...

Nicole Gomez @nicolenbcsd
An update on the Mission Valley Macy's shooting at the top of 6:00. What the victim's family had to say to us... #nbc7

I've never tried embedding a tweet so I put the text above in case this turns into jibberish below! ETA: didn't work. Anyone able to tell me HOW to do that correctly? LOL

Also, most things are now referencing "seeking" Gianni. Is it me or does that convey a different implication than is typically used when it's a missing person's case?
 
TravelingBug said:
Any local happen to have watched KNSD at 6 am? I didn't have the news on, but this was on twitter from a few hours ago...

Nicole Gomez @nicolenbcsd
An update on the Mission Valley Macy's shooting at the top of 6:00. What the victim's family had to say to us... #nbc7

I've never tried embedding a tweet so I put the text above in case this turns into jibberish below! ETA: didn't work. Anyone able to tell me HOW to do that correctly? LOL

Also, most things are now referencing "seeking" Gianni. Is it me or does that convey a different implication than is typically used when it's a missing person's case?
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I missed it this morning but have KNSD on in the background and even on their 30 minute news updates they have not said a thing about the case. As a matter of fact the only media outlet that is reporting on Salvatore passing is 10News. That's a little odd considering how much attention this case has received locally.

The word "seeking" is interesting. That and LE want to talk to him. His car with Utah plates should stand out a bit down here. But then he may not be in the area anymore.

Thanks again for all your help neighbor!
 
http://www.10news.com/news/second-v...re-belvedere-suffered-gunshot-to-head12272013

SAN DIEGO - 10News has learned that Salvatore Belvedere, the second victim shot outside a Mission Valley shopping mall on Christmas Eve, has died from his injuries.

The 22 year-old and his fiancee, Ilona Flint, 22, were both found in a car in the parking lot at Macy's at the Westfield Mission Valley Mall after being shot about 1:30 a.m., police said.

Flint was able to call 911 before being found dead in the vehicle at the scene.

Belvedere was rushed to Scripps Mercy Hospital and being treated for a head wound, but succumbed to his injuries.

BBM: Poor reporting as Ilona was NOT Salvatore's fiancée.
 
SDHELPS said:
http://www.10news.com/news/second-v...re-belvedere-suffered-gunshot-to-head12272013

SAN DIEGO - 10News has learned that Salvatore Belvedere, the second victim shot outside a Mission Valley shopping mall on Christmas Eve, has died from his injuries.

The 22 year-old and his fiancee, Ilona Flint, 22, were both found in a car in the parking lot at Macy's at the Westfield Mission Valley Mall after being shot about 1:30 a.m., police said.
<snip>
BBM: Poor reporting as Ilona was NOT Salvatore's fiancée.
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Yikes! No kidding that was a big boo boo!

It's interesting b/c they're all tweeting quite a bit about it....

I wonder if they're just unsure how to address it given everything?

KFMB does now have in print that a friend is saying that he was picking her up from work.

Extremely odd to me he won't say where, nor have any employees from any store said anything about being concerned about one of their own, or...?

He told CBS News 8, Salvatore was picking up Flint at work in the mall but wouldn't specify what store. He also said it wasn't unusual for Salvatore to pick her up when Flint worked in La Jolla.
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That rules out what I was wondering if they (KFMB) or someone else had misinterpreted comments about S and G both driving her to places as meaning that was the case in this instance.

But I have to wonder about the lack of ANYONE else saying she worked there somewhere.

It'd seem like they'd have stated that from the get go, or at least as soon as they learned it (if it's true) - as that would clear up some questions and definitely lend insight into some things.

Of course that would make it more weird if Gianni were also at the mall then, because why would they both go, separately, to get her?

I can't imagine they (LE and media) wouldn't have just JUMPED on this and been plastering it all over if she really was an employee somewhere there...

Really even if LE didn't release it for some reason, if she really works there I'm a little surprised neither family did. (Explanation for them being together or whatever!)

And then why would a family member have said that they were together and it was unclear why - if he were picking her up, which he supposedly does regularly, wouldn't they know or not be surprised about that? Or expecting it?

In some ways it'd make it seems less alarming to the general public, I suspect. But I think they'd also say something as a warning for other employees.

Who knows...maybe I'm overthinking it. Ha :scared:

Wondering if this friend is mistaken? Or misleading? Or if there's some really odd reason that NO one else is suggesting she worked there? (Can't imagine what the latter would be though)

Salvatore dying will likely bump this back up to the lead news story at 11, curious to see what else they say - and if this comes up now that KFMB has printed/run with it.

But mostly I'm curious what in the world any of the media folks have to say about the CoD (and to a much lesser extent, the ToD) on Salvatore being sealed.
 
<snipped>

I can't imagine they (LE and media) wouldn't have just JUMPED on this and been plastering it all over if she really was an employee somewhere there...

BBM

The only reference to an employer is through FB by a "former" employer who owns Lone Star (a clothing store) in Del Mar and is organizing a vigil at La Jolla Shores @ 6pm Saturday evening. Since he is posting this on all the family members pages I will not link.
 
I tried to flip between all three of the 'real' news stations - 7, 8, and 10 (sorry, I don't count 5, 6, or 9 - lol) Obviously I couldn't catch it all doing so much jumping but was hoping to see what the angles were on each.

Channel 10 (KGTV so it should be eventually on their website) were promo-ing looking into their history (the brothers). The only thing they could find on them was a couple of traffic tickets from when they were living in Utah...basically that they were very good guys.

Most of the rest on all of them was just how the family had been praying he'd pull through, and how they're really wanting Gianni found.
 
SDHELPS said:
<snipped>

I can't imagine they (LE and media) wouldn't have just JUMPED on this and been plastering it all over if she really was an employee somewhere there...

BBM

The only reference to an employer is through FB by a "former" employer who owns Lone Star (a clothing store) in Del Mar and is organizing a vigil at La Jolla Shores @ 6pm Saturday evening. Since he is posting this on all the family members pages I will not link.
Click to expand...

That's why it seems so weird...

And so weird that KFMB would run it not only on air, but now in print (since they obviously had time between when you heard it on a broadcast and then it appeared in print on their site today)

Do they have info no one else has (seems odd...because I'm sure they all have 'scouts' on what other stations report and then go dig after it to confirm or deny)?

Do they have bad information (someone wanting their five minutes of fame or something?)

One would hope that they'd get double confirmation on something like this, especially if you're the lone station reporting something, and NO one else is also reporting it...even some time later, wouldn't you?
 
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