GUILTY CA - Gianni, 24, & Sal Belvedere, 22, Ilona Flint, 22, San Diego, 24 Dec 2013 - #3

[hmm_what_if?]

Here's how to sleuth... stop chatting about the media "known" - and dig for the stuff helpful to the case.
Example: "Why is CM traveling 100 miles to a gun range?" (We got plenty right here in SD). Or, "What gun range did he go to in Riverside?" (Anyone dig that up yet?).
...I'm just saying.

 

[nikb]

<sorry mods - deleted - self editing>

 

[mrsobrien]

Sorry Bessie! I was trying to be funny to lighten the mood. :-/

 

[Barbarella]

I am just going to respond to this. I was at the event in Lakeside there was nothing seedy about it, Lakeside is a small community and that is a local sports bar. The drugs not being in their systems was told to me by one of the parents and one of the siblings from what I understand the family only found out about the drug situation the same way we did. Regardless of gossip that is heard by a drunk family member I have met Gianni prior to his death and I have spent countless hours with the family trying to keep the memory of what happened alive. No one's family is perfect but I do know parents love their children regardless of stupid things like drug use, in fact I spoke with the father and he said he loved his kids and he would accept any answer even if it was drugs the mitigating circumstances have nothing to do with their love and need for justice. Even if it was drugs who cares? It does not take away from the brutality of their deaths, and there is no evidence saying drugs played a role in it. There is always the possibility it was a coincidence. I suggest if you think you are a more reliable Verified Insider going through the process. Regardless of the outcome my feelings will not change towards the family and I will always think they loved their children and did the best they could.

I don't think that anyone on WS was/is trying to imply in any way that A) The families did not love their children, or that B) Any of the three victims deserved what happened to them due to their drug usage.

You say that even if it was drugs, who cares? Well, I think the people on WS care because a lot of us (and in my opinion even the SDPD detectives) believe drugs played some sort of role in the murders. Nobody on here is trying to blame the victims for being addicts. As I've stated on some of my posts, I have a family member who is a recovering addict so I can truly understand that loving someone who is sick with the disease of addiction doesn't mean they deserve anything bad happening to them. And I also know that parents and family members can very much be in denial about their loved one's addiction. But I think the main focus here is that this is thought by many to be a possible drug related hit/assassination/murder. I thought people on WS were allowed to express their own theories and thoughts about the evidence that is brought forward to the public?

Also, I will say I have been following this story on WS from day one (like most of you). And, not to point fingers and no disrespect to you Best, but I do recall that you initially posted on WS, quite a few inaccurate facts/opinions yourself. You early on said that Sal was gay, that the 3 victims may have been killed over an Ecstasy drug deal, and also that you were sure Ilona worked at Macy's in the mall. It seems your opinions and views changed once you met the family and became a verified insider. Again, there is nothing wrong with that but I think it would be nice to extend the same open mindedness to others that was extended to you. Maybe be a little easier on people here with other views and experiences since you were all over the place with wrong information when you first started posting on this board. No disrespect to you - I just don't like to see the tone of WS feel intimidating. We are all here for the same good, helpful cause.

 

[jash]

That's why I was asking, thanks. I/we must know someone that works at Target that can tell us if that was a payday.
December 24, 2013 was a Tuesday, not a normal payday based on the jobs I've had, I've always been paid 1st and 15th or every other Friday. Hmmm....

Eta- light googling says Target pays biweekly on Fridays. December 24th wouldn't have been a payday unless they paid employees early for the holiday or something.

The "Pay Day" appears to be unrelated to the murders. As per this photo, it was a regular thing he had saved to the calendar. The "R.I.P." really stands out and will be hard for the defense to explain away.

source: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...t-Mercado-Search-Warrants-SDPD-274013861.html

 

[jash]

Other photos of evidence from http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...-Mercado-Search-Warrants-SDPD-274013861.html:

 

[SDHELPS]

Here's how to sleuth... stop chatting about the media "known" - and dig for the stuff helpful to the case.
Example: "Why is CM traveling 100 miles to a gun range?" (We got plenty right here in SD). Or, "What gun range did he go to in Riverside?" (Anyone dig that up yet?).
...I'm just saying.

After all that has been released in the warrants (although I've yet to read them all) and the fact that CM was stopped at the checkpoint at 4:45 am I find it hard to believe he went to any shooting range and that was just a cya statement since he had all the weapons in the car. MOO

 

[SDHELPS]

Below in blue is the timeline from here:
http://www.cbs8.com/story/26453781/...dealers-investigated-in-christmas-eve-murders

When did Gianni's vehicle get moved by the killer, assuming he was shot someplace in the mall parking lot?

TIMELINE OF KILLINGS
(based on unsealed search warrants and court testimony)

Dec 23:
1900 Gianni purchases two grams of heroin from a drug dealer
2300 Gianni purchases seven Xanax pills from a drug dealer
2318 Surveillance video shows man entering mall, loitering near Ilona's work
2322 Surveillance video shows man on cell phone while loitering
2328 &#8211; 2343 Gianni cell phone pinging near Mission Valley mall
2333 &#8211; 2343 Gianni cell phone call with uncle
2343 Gianni cell phone call ends with disconnect

Dec. 24:
0012 Ilona and co-worker depart work location
0022 Surveillance video shows Ilona exiting mall with man following her
0114 Ilona calls 911 and says, &#8220;I've been shot.&#8221;
0124 Police arrive on scene

By the timeline above, 39 minutes after the killer shot Gianni at 2343 he appears on surveillance video again at 0022. So that's 39 minutes to move Gianni's vehicle. (Though, it is still possible the guy on the surveillance video is just a random nobody).

The other opportunity he had to move Gianni's vehicle would be between 0022 and 0114. That's a window of 52 minutes. That would mean he would have followed Ilona out of the mall and then moved Gianni while Sal and Ilona were sitting in the vehicle together during that window.

Recall, the witnesses saw him drive away in a Honda Civic right after the shooting. So I am assuming he had already moved Gianni's car someplace BEFORE the shootings of Sal and Ilona.

Or perhaps....

"In order to carry out the murders of Ilona and Salvatore, abduct and/or kill Gianni, put the body in the trunk of the vehicle and dispose of it over one hundred miles away, it seems reasonable to assume more than one person would be needed to carry out the murders.&#8221;

BBM

I'm sorry I'm a bit behind on all of the warrants but originally the witnesses information came out that he got into the back or passenger side of the Honda which then drove away. Did the witnesses say in the recently released information that whoever this person was personally drove the Honda away?

I promise I will print out and study all of the warrants released at some point today. :thinking:

 

[tvscum]

BBM

I'm sorry I'm a bit behind on all of the warrants but originally the witnesses information came out that he got into the back or passenger side of the Honda which then drove away. Did the witnesses say in the recently released information that whoever this person was personally drove the Honda away?

I promise I will print out and study all of the warrants released at some point today. :thinking:

Exactly which side of the car he got into is not in the warrants but it came out during the prelim. First of all, both witnesses actually own Honda Civics, so they know what one looks like. The witnesses saw the man from behind and then, as I recall, they kind of assumed he got into the passenger side. It was not 100% clear, maybe the prosecution just didn't want to focus on that because it hurts their case against CM. The passenger side info came from the DDA just making some off-hand remarks during questioning of Det. Norris. The witnesses never testified during the prelim. Presumably they will at trial. That is, if the case goes to trial. IMO, they would let CM plead guilty to avoid the death penalty if he rolled over on any possible accomplices. JMO.

 

[SDHELPS]

Exactly which side of the car he got into is not in the warrants but it came out during the prelim. First of all, both witnesses actually own Honda Civics, so they know what one looks like. The witnesses saw the man from behind and then, as I recall, they kind of assumed he got into the passenger side. It was not 100% clear, maybe the prosecution just didn't want to focus on that because it hurts their case against CM. The passenger side info came from the DDA just making some off-hand remarks during questioning of Det. Norris. The witnesses never testified during the prelim. Presumably they will at trial. That is, if the case goes to trial. IMO, they would let CM plead guilty to avoid the death penalty if he rolled over on any possible accomplices. JMO.

This is very interesting and thank you tvscum! OT but I need to just refer to you as "TV" moving forward lol

I'm very intrigued about an accomplice in this brazen act as earlier I had believed he worked alone. And I've always had a feeling that CM would do what he needs to, to avoid the DP. He's probably terrified to rollover on someone and potentially face the consequences behind bars. Based on his appearance and attitude in the prelims he does not strike me as someone who would be comfortable having to watch his back 24/7.

 

[tvscum]

Not even the DA seems to know if he had an accomplice. Seems clear he drove some vehicle to the mall, presumably his brother-in-law's dark Civic. At the time of the killings, he only owned a motorcycle, I believe.

That mall is in an urban area. Where did he store Gianni's vehicle for a month? Every cop in town was looking for it. He did not have a lot of time to get rid of the vehicle that night. Strange.

Also, it came out in court that CM got into a motorcycle accident either the day of the killings or xmas day. He did something like $6,600 worth of damage to his motorcycle, possibly seen here in a photo from myspace:



That is a lot of damage. Not sure if he was injured or hospitalized afterwards. Did that delay his disposal of Gianni's car? More unanswered questions.

 

[hmm_what_if?]

After all that has been released in the warrants (although I've yet to read them all) and the fact that CM was stopped at the checkpoint at 4:45 am I find it hard to believe he went to any shooting range and that was just a cya statement since he had all the weapons in the car. MOO

See, this is what I'm talking about... we need to find the (answer) to this question. I personally prefer not to speculate on anything. I dig for the truth then ways to verify it from more than one source... So, if you guys have the time, (I personally don't), dig for that answer. Then move onto the next...

 

[kimmypie1]

Has LE come out and specifically said there was no known connection between CM and Gianni on their phone records? Or have they just not said either way? I would not be surprised to find out that the cell phone CM called during "event 1" was Gianni. Maybe Gianni was going to come pick up Ilona and had arranged to meet CM to purchase some drugs while waiting for her. Gianni calls CM says, I am here, CM leaves and goes to meet Gianni and then murders him. For whatever reason.

Then CM is told to go after Ilona. He isn't quite sure which one of the two girls leaving Cathy Jean she is, so he strikes up a conversation with her (directions) to get close to her to confirm it is her. He then follows her to her car, calls the cell phone in event #2 and says "I've got her get the car ready for me". He then approaches the car, says "I was supposed to meet Gianni but he never showed", and proceeds to transact the drug deal with her. At some point during this he murders them and then places the call to the person in event #3 and tells them "I've done it, they're dead".

I think there needs to be two accomplices there #1 to drive Gianni's car with dead Gianni in it and #2 to drive the get away car with CM in it once it is over. Now the phone records say there were 3 other cell phones that were present in the cell tower area of MV mall that he called at some point during all 3 events. I really can't see 3 other accomplices just hanging around, so I think one number was Gianni and the other 2 were accomplices.

BUT I am a bit confused with the cell tower info. Are they saying that the phone numbers called by CM were also present in the tower area or just that HIS phone was present and he dialed those numbers? The wording says something like "it is presumed that all phones left the area after the murders". I think I am just talking in circles, lol

 

[hmm_what_if?]

FYI, all of these search warrants you're reading are just that... search warrants. The evidence and answers you're seeking are partially there, but some of those names, numbers, and email addresses are dead ends. Trust me when I tell you there are more documents and warrants SEALED that haven't been made public yet...

 

[hmm_what_if?]

The "Pay Day" appears to be unrelated to the murders. As per this photo, it was a regular thing he had saved to the calendar. The "R.I.P." really stands out and will be hard for the defense to explain away.

source: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...t-Mercado-Search-Warrants-SDPD-274013861.html

You are correct! PAYDAY has nothing to do with the murders... my guess is after 8 years on the job dude still couldn't comprehend "bi-monthly", so he set his calendar to remind himself. RIP, is a singular non-repeating memo. He's effed in the A on that (circumstantial) bit of evidence.

 

[EmmaRose]

From pp. 12-13 here: http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/x46916.pdf,

A female in her early 20s [AN] was interviewed, as Gianni had exchanged several text messages with her on December 23, 2013 between 7:29 and 7:51 PM (they had actually met at a Red Lobster for about 20 mins sometime between 6 and 7 PM that day).

She said she met Gianni through a friend of hers in January 2013. She and Gianni "became friends and routinely met practically every day at various locations in the city of Chula Vista". She "denied there was any romantic involvement in their relationship and stated...that Gianni would meet her almost daily and she would sell him four to five grams of marijuana for approximately $100.00. On one occasion she arranged the sale of prescription Xanax."

Hmm, hasn't it been reported that his heroin dealer was female? I wonder if it was this same person, and she lied to police about what she was supplying Gianni with (i.e. selling pot seems less serious).

Hi Jash, I thought the same as you about her being his heroin connection. I also remember reading in a timeline that Gianni purchased heroin around 7pm the night of Dec 23. From the same article you quoted from, it mentions that GB met this female friend around the same time, sooooo - I think you are right.

 

[Mlk]

Greetings to all, I've been following this from day one and you guys are all so clever that I have answers to questions in my head before I could ever comment. That being said I'm curious about something, the drug use. I'm completely naive about how drugs are purchased. But does anyone find it odd that GB would go around town and purchase drugs daily? Seems like a lot of work. Why wouldn't someone just purchase a weeks worth at one time? Unless you just don't have the cash available. And can only come up the next days cash for drugs the previous day. So where is this money coming from? $250 of heroin a day? $100 for majiuanna ? Not sure what the other (Xanax) miscellaneous drugs were costing. For just the first two it's a staggering $127,000 a year. I can't imagine what the salary is at a restaurant, but I have a hard time believing its going to cover a $127,000 plus drug habit.

Was GB using and dealing what he was buying? Where would someone get this kind of money, if not from his job? Is it common to purchase drugs on daily basis?

Please forgive me if there is an obvious explanation. I just think this kind of cash floating around is unusual, well, unless you're on Wall Street.

I've really enjoyed reading everyone insights.

God bless these kids and their families.

 

[mrsobrien]

I can't answer all that, but I bet small increments mean less jail time if busted.
PS-Welcome!

Greetings to all, I've been following this from day one and you guys are all so clever that I have answers to questions in my head before I could ever comment. That being said I'm curious about something, the drug use. I'm completely naive about how drugs are purchased. But does anyone find it odd that GB would go around town and purchase drugs daily? Seems like a lot of work. Why wouldn't someone just purchase a weeks worth at one time? Unless you just don't have the cash available. And can only come up the next days cash for drugs the previous day. So where is this money coming from? $250 of heroin a day? $100 for majiuanna ? Not sure what the other (Xanax) miscellaneous drugs were costing. For just the first two it's a staggering $127,000 a year. I can't imagine what the salary is at a restaurant, but I have a hard time believing its going to cover a $127,000 plus drug habit.

Was GB using and dealing what he was buying? Where would someone get this kind of money, if not from his job? Is it common to purchase drugs on daily basis?

Please forgive me if there is an obvious explanation. I just think this kind of cash floating around is unusual, well, unless you're on Wall Street.

I've really enjoyed reading everyone insights.

God bless these kids and their families.

 

[jggordo]

Greetings to all, I've been following this from day one and you guys are all so clever that I have answers to questions in my head before I could ever comment. That being said I'm curious about something, the drug use. I'm completely naive about how drugs are purchased. But does anyone find it odd that GB would go around town and purchase drugs daily? Seems like a lot of work. Why wouldn't someone just purchase a weeks worth at one time? Unless you just don't have the cash available. And can only come up the next days cash for drugs the previous day. So where is this money coming from? $250 of heroin a day? $100 for majiuanna ? Not sure what the other (Xanax) miscellaneous drugs were costing. For just the first two it's a staggering $127,000 a year. I can't imagine what the salary is at a restaurant, but I have a hard time believing its going to cover a $127,000 plus drug habit.

Was GB using and dealing what he was buying? Where would someone get this kind of money, if not from his job? Is it common to purchase drugs on daily basis?

Please forgive me if there is an obvious explanation. I just think this kind of cash floating around is unusual, well, unless you're on Wall Street.

I've really enjoyed reading everyone insights.

God bless these kids and their families.

I believe you are right about carrying a small inventory since any sales by GB et al would be mobile and not operated from home. IMO he was paying "retail" for the drugs with not much room for "markup" to wash his use cost.

I realize there are many more SWs to come but thus far I am a little disappointed that bank records reviewed thus far only are for immediate family and such a short period of time. Only from Nov 2013 to end of Jan 2014. IMO there HAD to be misappropriation of funds from the restaurant to support these activities over a period of time. It is the only source I can think of. So IMO forensic accounting should be examined for at least a year prior to the killings, even though owned by others before the sale to GB's Father. Maybe they did and just not released yet. In all due respect to all three kids, addiction to anything becomes an illness that without treatment and breaking becomes a consuming cycle of destruction to one's self and families as well. Absolutely NOTHING changes who they were and were going to be without this tragedy. I do hope the dealers get their due as well!

I am wondering too if something along this line was the precipitating factor for Sal to have gone into rehab, IMO.

JMO's

 

[ezuke]

I'm just going to jump in here and add my 2¢ to the drug convo.

From what I understand, based on the people I used to know, the drug business is a hierarchy, and the people you buy personal quantities from on the street (or via a connection) is on the lowest rung of the hierarchy and usually only has specific drugs on them at a given time. Like, the guy who sells weed likely only has weed to sell, but could get other drugs by request, though it takes some time; so I could see how this girl dealer could be one of many dealers they had. Fwiw, she even said she facilitated the sale of Xanax one time, which is probably due to her only having weed to sell on a regular basis.

Second, if you buy from the same person all the time they will give you a deal on the price because they set the price based on what they buy it for. For example, a dealer buys a pound of weed for $2,500 and breaks it up into smaller quantities, which he then sells on the street for an inflated price. If the dealer is further marking up the price of his weed/other drugs to random customers then he can give you, as the regular, a deal.
Really, they don't care so long as they recoup what they paid for it initially and make a profit, and by having regular customers they pretty well ensure they will be able to continue to make a profit.