CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #5

[Zelda1010]

Can someone please post this photo again?

Pic #27 in article
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2018/04/deadly_hart_family_crash_may_h.html

 

[enelram]

i noticed that, too, along with the prominence of bones at the sternum. Too me it looked possible there had been some attempt to photoshop out just how prominent the chest bone protrusion was... Smoothing with the clone tool might produce that effect. If it is natural or the realty of trauma I could not say, but it was very noticeable.

The reason I noticed what looked like a broken clavicle was because I suffered one also in the same location (middle of

bone) which is most common area. Mine was caused by being run over, from behind, by a 1400 lb. galloping horse.

I was quickly pushed to ground on my face and also broke my femur (upper leg bone). Often, when the clavicle is

broken in middle, it becomes displaced and the 2 bone ends no longer meet but can overlap in a crooked configuaration.

She would have had pain and been unable to lift her arm or even use that arm, for several weeks and should have had a sling if her parents

had her treated and checked out.

Also regarding Markis- If he did have Cherubism- he may have had permanent teeth missing or misaligned and should have been treated by a dentist. . The bite and ability to chew properly can be greatly affected, if this condition is not
attended to.
Another reason I suspect general neglect if LE cannot find records of any dental care.

 

[Sleuth99]

Checking to see if they identified the child found recently.

It's going to take a few weeks until the DNA results come back, unfortunately.


MOO*

 

[pinklilies]

My post is a bit random but after watching this video where the whole house can clearly be seen

http://www.kare11.com/video/news/local/search-warrant-executed-at-couples-woodland-home/283-8061512

It's clear that Hannah escaping from there from a second storey window, on to a roof, was physically, no easy feat. The roof is not directly under the second storey windows but to the side, on a lower part to the home. It would have taken her some scrambling and working out where to safely put her feet and hanging on before jumping across to the roof. Even then she'd need to jump down from that actual roof to the ground. She must have been so desperate and determined to get out of there. Only to then have to go back, be humiliated by having to write a letter of apology [emoji35] and return with everyone the next day. And I don't think that will have been the end of it either.

I'm not saying the others weren't, but I think she was one strong little lady.
Just from their photos and videos, it's clear to see they all had so, so much to offer this world.




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[Abp5]

One does not have to have braces to have beautiful straight teeth. Many people are born with it. It looks to me from the pictures that those with the straight teeth have naturally wide palates that are simply wide enough to fit all their teeth without crowding.

There are several of the older pics where it looked as if permanent teeth were crowded and overlapping in the children with the beautifully straight teeth (Devonte, Abigail, and Jeremiah). I don’t remember which photos but I remember it sticking out to me because the teeth are gorgeous in the more recent pics that have been posted. Of course, they could have straightened on their own as additional teeth were coming in. My husband is one of those people who has perfectly straight teeth without braces. I was not so lucky.

 

[gcharlie]

My post is a bit random but after watching this video where the whole house can clearly be seen

http://www.kare11.com/video/news/local/search-warrant-executed-at-couples-woodland-home/283-8061512

It's clear that Hannah escaping from there from a second storey window, on to a roof, was physically, no easy feat. The roof is not directly under the second storey windows but to the side, on a lower part to the home. It would have taken her some scrambling and working out where to safely put her feet and hanging on before jumping across to the roof. Even then she'd need to jump down from that actual roof to the ground. She must have been so desperate and determined to get out of there. Only to then have to go back, be humiliated by having to write a letter of apology [emoji35] and return with everyone the next day. And I don't think that will have been the end of it either.

I'm not saying the others weren't, but I think she was one strong little lady.
Just from their photos and videos, it's clear to see they all had so, so much to offer this world.




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BBM

I'm not sure where you're getting a roof from.

The bedrooms were all on the second floor. Two bedrooms on the front of the house were the same size, and the bedroom at the rear was larger. I'm assuming that the mothers shared the larger bedroom.

There is a full two story drop to a paved patio area below the rear bedroom. The front bedrooms are one and a half stories over a grassy area.

 

[LeighB]

Agree with so much, bunnykins. Too often it's not possible to adopt non-infant AA children into AA families simply for lack of families, so it's adopt them to parents of a different ethnicity or stay in the foster system forever (which means being adults with no parents, forever). HOWEVER - that doesn't mean it's okay not to try for a good long while, to try first and foremost to make family placements actually work, or okay to send them cross-country with no regard to their family/ethnicity/culture/geography of origin without a prolonged effort nearby first. Adoptive parents should certainly be informed of studies indicating which practices lead to the best long-term results with regard to everything, including cultural contact, and in my opinion, if the state is going to send a check every month to pay for their care, it should come with annual check-ins on their medical status and contact with local law enforcement and child protective services. That should be the price of the money that comes with it.

After all, the government doesn't pay me to raise my biological children. Money comes with strings attached, IMO.

 

[kizzykat]

My post is a bit random but after watching this video where the whole house can clearly be seen

http://www.kare11.com/video/news/local/search-warrant-executed-at-couples-woodland-home/283-8061512

It's clear that Hannah escaping from there from a second storey window, on to a roof, was physically, no easy feat. The roof is not directly under the second storey windows but to the side, on a lower part to the home. It would have taken her some scrambling and working out where to safely put her feet and hanging on before jumping across to the roof. Even then she'd need to jump down from that actual roof to the ground. She must have been so desperate and determined to get out of there. Only to then have to go back, be humiliated by having to write a letter of apology [emoji35] and return with everyone the next day. And I don't think that will have been the end of it either.

I'm not saying the others weren't, but I think she was one strong little lady.
Just from their photos and videos, it's clear to see they all had so, so much to offer this world.




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This is the real estate listing for the Woodland, WA home when it was on the market and the Harts bought it. You can see photos of the interior and exterior.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2501-NW-389TH-St-Woodland-WA-98674/23330270_zpid/?fullpage=true

 

[PetDetective]

I know this will not be a popular opinion, because it's become "necessary" to demonize Sarah and Jen Hart's every move, every word, every picture, every perceived or ascribed motivation. They are now morphed from "saviors" and role models, into evil personified. I sure don't think that's the truth, either way. They were neither saviors and role models, nor evil personified, IMO. But that won't play well for most people, because it seems necessary to box them in as "all evil, all the time" so we can hate them *more* for driving off a cliff with the kids, who were isolated and exquisitely vulnerable.

To be sure, I think they were highly dysfunctional women who may have been "fine" together alone (before kids), but devolved into chaotic dysfunction as parents of far too many adopted kids with horrific and extremely difficult backgrounds. To me, that is the issue that precipitated the dysfunctional and chaotic years that ended up with Jen driving off the cliff. There was far too much willingness by adoption authorities to allow them to adopt SO MANY kids from such awful backgrounds, at their young ages--20s-- with limited life experience.

Frankly, the first three were WAY too many for Jen and Sarah, IMO. They were NOT good candidates for adopting children from that kind of background-- and I don't need a social work degree to make that observation. Adopting one child with that kind of background would have been about right (if at all), for 2 women who were far too young to have much life experience in their 20s, and NO parenting experience at all. Keep in mind that at their age, they would not have been eligible for international adoption at all in their 20s through most accredited, legitimate avenues. (And not just because they were lesbians-- but because of their age, length of marriage, lack of prior parenting experience, and apparently meager financial situation.) They did not appear to be open to using multiple professional resources to help the kids, and do not appear to have sought advice in parenting these kids from very difficlut backgrounds. They appear to be "winging it" with their ideas about what constitutes healthy family life, enforced isolation, "homeschooling" (we have no idea if, or to what extent they did any actual schooling beyond reading pleasure books), and their ideas about socialization and friendships (festivals, rallies, and protests), as well as their ideas about effective discipline and encouragement. Clearly, we can infer that Jen and Sarah did not appear to encourage or nurture any of the kids as individuals (by their report, as well as their advocates and critics), but related to the kids mostly as a group. (As they were taught to as teachers in their educational programs, IMO, which seems to be the only experience with kids that they had before the first foster child.)

I personally don't think they were "all evil, all the time". Nor do I believe hyperbole such as that they were "starving" the kids. I do believe they probably withheld, or controlled food choices and volume, which all parents do to some extent. I also believe they may have used food withholding as a "punishment"-- but without knowing WHAT they may have withheld, or when, or how long, I cannot buy into the fervor that they were "starving" the children. There is no evidence, none at all, that indicates "starving" children. Many, many, many adopted kids have "food issues", whether or not they had actual food insecurity at any point in their lives. Many, if not most, adopted kids from foster care or institutions (overseas) also have some degree of malnourishment, affecting their global development.

I don't believe the "eating garbage/ eating out of the garbage" story as it has been relayed by Jen about foster child "Lee". Nor do I fully believe Lee's story in the Seattle Times as "complete truth". Lee's story is decidedly one-sided, designed to present Lee herself, by her own words, in her own best image-- and that means she presented the story as idyllic, and herself in "full control" of her "out of control" behavior (she just called up the social worker and checked herself into foster care, like checking into a hotel on a vacation). Then everything was rosy and perfect, right up until evil Sarah and Jen "dumped" her at a "therapy" appointment. Just nothing at all sounds reasonable, plausible, or fully truthful about how that played out, IMO.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...rtbreak-though-not-the-way-some-might-expect/

As an example of the "eating out of the garbage"-- that could be viewed/ slanted/ presented in both an innocous way, as well as a pathological way, depending on the reality of the situation. For example, last week I threw away a bag of chips that still had a handful left at the bottom of the bag, but had been open a while. In my estimation, it was stale, and beyond it's best flavor. One of my kids pulled open the trash compartment in the kitchen, saw the bag, and said "mom-- those are still good, and we don't have any more chips right now!" Whereupon she retrieved the bag and ate them. We were both laughing. She happens to be adopted. She is also quite thin. Also happens to have a very healthy appetite, and eats healthy food most kids wouldn't eat (tofu and veggies for breakfast regularly).

So if one wanted to villainize me as a bad parent, and my teen as dysfunctional about food because she's adopted, one could say I wasn't feeding her enough calories, was "withholding food" because I didn't have any more chips in the house, and she is too thin, she was "starving", and "eating out of the garbage." Or a reasonable person would have laughed that a teenager with an healthy appetite and desire for junk food rescued a half empty bag of stale chips out of the trash, and went on to eat a healthy dinner.

See how that works? Perspective is everything.

Yes, Jen Hart definitely appears to have intentionally driven off a cliff with the kids in the car, after getting yet another visit from CPS. I don't think that means she and Sarah beat and starved the kids all the time. For whatever reason, they were prone to circle their wagons and isolate themselves and the kids to cope, rather than reaching out for help, and allowing the kids to grow and develop friendships and interests outside of the family. Their frustration at containing the ever growing, and very needy teens (psychologically, socially, and developmentally) created a perfect storm where Jen (and possibly Sarah) could not admit "failure" and reach out and accept help. So they chose to drive off a cliff instead. I actually do not believe they ever "hated" the kids-- they simply had no idea how to REALLY connect to them as wounded children with deep needs, and how to parent them. They knew how to relate to them as a group, as a teacher would do, and to take them on field trips. They had a "savior" mentality, IMO, and co-used the kids to massage and groom their own image on social media. They "shared" their hobbies and passions for politics and social justice with the kids, who were a captive audience who could not refuse or opt out of these ideas and opinions-- and had no skills or tools to voice any different ideas, IMO. IMO, what is crystal clear from all we have learned is that Jen and Sarah did not know how to PARENT individuals who came from very troubled backgrounds. That intense and private frustration, and and equally intense need to save face, IMO, is what led to Jen driving off the cliff. Not "evilness".

I totally agree with everything you said. Thank you for such an articulate, well thought out post!

I’d like to touch on what you said regarding their image on social media. This topic has been a big one recently at local schools due to 2 suicides near me that we’re at least partially due to the pressures they felt to be perfect. We all post primarily positive things about ourselves on SM, and it can be hard for us to remember that we are not the only ones whose lives are not perfect despite the perfect picture so many paint on SM.
I would venture a guess that the media attention that would inevitably follow had they lost custody of their kids (due to Devonte’s viral photo making him somewhat of a celebrity) most likely pushed her over the edge. That alone probably scared the hell out of her.


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[pinklilies]

BBM

This is gcharlie quote:

"I'm not sure where you're getting a roof from.

The bedrooms were all on the second floor. Two bedrooms on the front of the house were the same size, and the bedroom at the rear was larger. I'm assuming that the mothers shared the larger bedroom.

There is a full two story drop to a paved patio area below the rear bedroom. The front bedrooms are one and a half stories over a grassy area.

View attachment 132934

View attachment 132935[/

End of quote
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This call to 911 states she jumped out the window, on to a roof and then to the ground. Maybe the guy got his details wrong and if so, did she jump out of the second storey window straight to the ground? It's a big drop for her. Or did she jump from a ground floor window?

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/04/12/us/hart-family-911-call-signs/index.html

"They're new here, Texas, but the other night, a little girl jumped out of the second story window on the roof and then down to the ground and then ran to my daughter and this is like 2 in the morning, begging them to help her."

 

[smiley]

There were supposedly " home schooled" but the proper paperwork was not completed nor submitted in OR or WA

 

[Sillybilly]

Here's the issue about posts that discuss racism in general.

This isn't our first rodeo when it comes to discussions about racism (and religion, and orientation ...).

Such discussions become highly charged, highly inflammatory, and totally unmanageable, and at times can result in threads getting shut down simply because we don't have a full-time staff to deal with it.

If MSM says someone said so-and-so was racist, you may discuss the comment that was contained in MSM. You may speculate on the comment within reason as it relates to this case and this case only. You may not digress into generalized rants about racism and thus derail the thread with your own agenda, beliefs, and accusations against any race, white/black/purple/green.

Do not detract from the thread by making it all about you and what you think about moderation or how the site should be run or what should or should not be allowed.

Websleuths is primarily a crime sleuthing forum. It is not a forum to resolve all the social injustices of the world. If Tricia wishes to change those parameters as it relates to this thread specifically, she will let you know.

If you have questions in that regard, address them to a Mod or Admin via PM.

 

[Sleuth99]

Please do not bring race into the discussion. There is no established fact in this case to support speculation that race is an issue in the crime.

:wave:

Ok just read your statement above.


MOO*

 

[NJcares]

Toxicology tests found Jennifer Hart had an alcohol level of 0.102, said California Patrol Capt. Bruce Carpenter.

California drivers are considered drunk with a level of 0.08 or higher.
Toxicology tests also found that her wife, Sarah Hart, and two of their children had “a significant amount” of an ingredient commonly found in the allergy drug Benadryl, which can make people sleepy. Toxicology results for a third child killed are still pending, Carpenter said.

Carpenter said none of the car’s occupants were wearing seatbelts.

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation...ho-drove-suv-with-family-off-cliff-was-drunk/

Interesting that Sarah also had Benadryl in her system. Benadryl is fairly long-acting takes ~5.4 hours for children of ~9 years old to clear it to half of the original dose (half life). For 30-something adults, it is ~9 hours.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2391399/

 

[DatelineFan]

Either they photo-shopped their teeth in many of the pictures, or those kids saw a dentist somehow, I believe. It really, really looks like at least 4 of them had braces. Maybe their dentist is a friend of theirs who refuses to come forward?

In my opinion, some people are just born with great teeth. My current partner and my ex have perfect smiles. They had regular dental care as children, but never needed braces.


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[PearlClutcher]

I think if we’ve learned anything in this tragedy it’s that Facebook and social media pics rarely tell the true, full story. That’s not to say that Sarah’s mother wasn’t accepting, it’s just that like the rest of this case we really have no idea.


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Are there pictures of Sarah and the Harts on the mother's page?

 

[gcharlie]

Lots of comments here and in other places about Jen carefully composing an image she wanted to project to the outside world.

I took a closer look at this particular photo, paying attention to the books themselves. On the surface, it might seem that Jen was trying to portray the family as being 1) grateful, due to the thank you sign at the top and 2) the kids were well learned and bookworms.



The books:

Beyond the Shadows of Summer: Over a ten day period during the summer of 1955, fourteen-year-old James Sayer learns a lot about friendship, racism, family, death, and how forgiveness always comes at a price.

It's been over a year since James's younger brother, Brand, died. Brand suffered from a rare blood disease, and everyone knew that he probably wouldn't grow into adulthood. But Brand didn't die from his disease, at least not directly, and although no one else seems to blame James for his brother's passing, he certainly blames himself. His beloved brother's death has left a hole in his heart, and he's not the same happy-go-lucky teen that he once was. He no longer has any interest in baseball, which was an activity that he and his brother shared together. Drawing, another shared interest, has been pushed by the wayside, abandoned.

Until James gets a job working at the fair for the summer alongside his friend Costello, serving ice cream at Mr. Curren's stand. Along with their other friends, G-Man and Fizz, James hopes to spend the summer working hard, avoiding the baseball games that he'll inevitably be asked to join, and staying out of trouble.

Unfortunately, that doesn't work out as well as he'd planned.

Obama's Wars Bob Woodward's new book draws from hundreds of interviews with key administration figures, their deputies and other firsthand sources. In addition, the book is based on extensive documentation, including internal memos, letters, chronologies and meeting notes. It will focus on national security, especially the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and the fight against terrorism.


Who Is to Be Tried? Incident at Sagamihara (obscure, published 1978) Set of articles, published over a period of three and a half years, in Goyu, the monthly publication of the Japanese Federation of War Veterans.

Goonies It's summer in the small seaport town of Astoria and The Goonies are restless. Big developers threaten to take over the town. Then Mikey finds an old pirate map and the kids take off to find the loot that can save their neighborhood. But they never counted on skeletons with swords, a booby-trapped underground passage and the murderous ex-con, all of whom want the Goonies' head. Take the oath. Join the adventure.


Picasso: Creator and Destroyer This landmark biography penetrates the barriers of legend to bring to full and intimate life a man whose burning passions - for painting, women, and ideas - were matched by a compulsion to invent reality in his life no less than in his art. Here is the tragic story of a man who, from his teenage passion for a gypsy boy to the chilling bitterness and betrayals of his old age, was unable to love and was driven to dominate and humiliate the women - and men - who fell under his hypnotic spell.

 

[Whiteorchids]

Does anyone know if there are search teams actively walking the coast daily in hopes of finding the other two children or are they just waiting for another tourist to accidentally come across one? [emoji853]

 

[enelram]

Does anyone know if there are search teams actively walking the coast daily in hopes of finding the other two children or are they just waiting for another tourist to accidentally come across one? [emoji853]

I doubt very much that LE is actively looking for bodies. they just don't have the manpower. they know the children
are deceased, if thrown into the water, so it probably will be a citizen that finds the other two.

 

[?mysterian?]

Does anyone know if there are search teams actively walking the coast daily in hopes of finding the other two children or are they just waiting for another tourist to accidentally come across one? [emoji853]

The divers have been unable to enter the ocean because it's been too rough. They plan to search as soon as conditions improve, according to the news article at the link below. http://kymkemp.com/2018/04/13/benad...no-crash-jen-hart-drunk-says-law-enforcement/ From the article: "Searches of the Mendocino County coastline will continue with on-duty patrol deputies as calls for service allow. Mendocino County Search & Rescue divers are preparing to be deployed to the area of the crash site once ocean conditions improve for safety reasons. It is anticipated that ocean conditions will not improve for several days."