CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #5

[kkdj]

Which bit of my post states I am opposed to adoptions by same sex partners? Then I will clarify it if I can.

I couldn't find it in your post either. I think Flourish was asking because of how the other part was misinterpreted. imo.

 

[flourish]

It can't be racist and perverse because it wouldn't be permissable would it? But if a black homosexual male couple wanted to adopt 6 white boys and girls, presumably that would be permissible too. Neither scenario (same sex parents or interracial adoptions) makes any common sense IMO. In this particular case, one adoptive parent was also drinking and driving which could even have contributed to the tragedy (she had a crash previously too). She may have mistakenly put the car in drive instead of reverse.

Which bit of my post states I am opposed to adoptions by same sex partners? Then I will clarify it if I can.

"Neither scenario (same sex parents or interracial adoptions) makes any common sense IMO."




I was asking for clarification on that part, you added more in your post above, so I think I've got my answer. Further clarification is welcome, of course.

[emoji111]

 

[flourish]

I couldn't find it in your post either. I think Flourish was assuming because of how the other part was misinterpreted. imo.

Well, I actually asked instead of assuming....

 

[bluesneakers]

Which bit of my post states I am opposed to adoptions by same sex partners? Then I will clarify it if I can.

I think the part BBM in this quote. It sounds like you are against adoptions by parents who are a same sex couple, and against adoptions if the parents are not the same race as the children.

It can't be racist and perverse because it wouldn't be permissable would it? But if a black homosexual male couple wanted to adopt 6 white boys and girls, presumably that would be permissible too. Neither scenario (same sex parents or interracial adoptions) makes any common sense IMO.

 

[human]

As a former social worker, I co-sign your post. And honestly? It's the reason why I quit my job. After seeing what unsubstantiated reports did to people's lives, it was just getting to be too much. Family, friends, and neighbors getting angry at each other and getting "revenge" by reporting those people to CPS was a weekly, if not daily, occurrence in our office. And you're right, it is very invasive. I've seen people lose their jobs just because CPS investigated them, even though the claims turned out to be unsubstantiated. Seen them rack up thousands of dollars in lawyer's fees. It's scary.

I have to say, that's one of the reasons why I have been so strongly defensive of some of the Harts' lifestyle choices on here. Other posters will say, "Well obviously we're not talking about you" but when generalizations like some of these are made, they're scary. It's important to think about what actual abuse and neglect truly is. One of the things we were always cautioned about what not to confuse a family's culture with abuse. Withholding food as punishment, leaving bruises, refusing medical care to a child-these are forms of abuse. Taking children to a festival (even one that you don't deem appropriate), allowing children to watch horror movies (yes, we had someone call in a child abuse claim because the 10 year old was allowed to watch Freddy Kruegar), vegetarianism, choosing an alternative religion, homeschooling, or even completely moving off the grid are not. They may be weird, but they're not abuse.

The system is broken. You are right to think long and hard before you call. My years as a social worker, and seeing what people can do to each other, warped me. My instinct was to move my family far, far away and cut off everyone. Only now, 9 years after leaving the position, am I getting to the point in which I feel like I can trust to let people into our lives. Use sense when reporting.

I am mystified. If the calls do not fit into the category of abuse, who is investigating them and why? Even if a CPS worker comes to the home and questions, who knows about it and why?

Sure people call up and say things, Mothers report ex husbands and vice versa.

Neighbors call on neighbors and friends call on ex friends.

How does CPS justify child abuse with going barefoot unless it is on a farm or city street filled with toxic and animal waste. No guidelines in some agencies?

 

[human]

I think the part BBM in this quote. It sounds like you are against adoptions by parents who are a same sex couple, and against adoptions if the parents are not the same race as the children.

Without a doubt, native and black communities are very concerned about whites adopting non white children. It is a huge issue in the US as well as in Canada

 

[flourish]

I am mystified. If the calls do not fit into the category of abuse, who is investigating them and why? Even if a CPS worker comes to the home and questions, who knows about it and why?

Sure people call up and say things, Mothers report ex husbands and vice versa.

Neighbors call on neighbors and friends call on ex friends.

How does CPS justify child abuse with going barefoot unless it is on a farm or city street filled with toxic and animal waste. No guidelines in some agencies?

Perhaps along with a national database there could be some kind of national guidelines for agencies? Although then there's the issue of laws and those differences... Like the new free range kid law in Utah or how some places it's not abuse to not have electricity as long as all needs are actually met... I don't know

 

[kkdj]

Well, I actually asked instead of assuming....

You're right! I fixed it. :doh:

 

[flourish]

The post blue is referring to, though, seemed to be indicating that interacial or same sex adoptions... Well, something... it's unclear what's the issue, but the example of... whatever... was a "black same sex male couple" as though perhaps that was just a "given" that they specifically shouldn't adopt? ?
ETA sorry I'm responding to human

 

[PapaBless]

Not sure if this was posted already, but Sierra Hart's remains have been identified.

RIP Sierra [emoji174]

The coroner’s office said Tuesday that DNA analysis confirmed the body was that of 12-year-old Ciera Hart.

https://nydn.us/2qHc7Fs


Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[katydid23]

Without a doubt, native and black communities are very concerned about whites adopting non white children. It is a huge issue in the US as well as in Canada

Of course it is. God forbid that anyone try and take these children out of the foster pipeline and give them a permanent home. That is a huge issue and must be dealt with---

 

[human]

Perhaps along with a national database there could be some kind of national guidelines for agencies? Although then there's the issue of laws and those differences... Like the new free range kid law in Utah or how some places it's not abuse to not have electricity as long as all needs are actually met... I don't know

In MN and things could have changed because I have been retired for awhile ,poverty is not considered reportable. Culture is not reportable. A filthy house is not reportsble unless it is health threatening. That would be feces , vermin, insects. Lots of thngs are considered lifestyle choices.

There have to be marks to report for hitting.

It must be other states allow investigations that I feel would never even be looked at in MN. Obviously. The Harts got away with plenty in MN.

I think that is why we so much horror on here. People get away wirh a lot re kids. There have been so many laws written to protect adults that kids really suffer.

In MN I remember a couple of cases of two year olds wandering around outside in diapers in the winter. Nothing happened to the parents. There is a lot of leniency.

People scream that nothing is done when some horror happens. Then others scream because the govt is too intrusive.

As long as children have few rights, this is what we get.

An adult can file charges even if someone swears at them. Verbal assault. Kids. Forget it. They get to be spanked by parents and schools.

It is beyond absurd considering that it is assault if it happens to an adult.

 

[bluesneakers]

Without a doubt, native and black communities are very concerned about whites adopting non white children. It is a huge issue in the US as well as in Canada

And there are people who are very concerned about same sex couples adopting children.

 

[bears10]

Without a doubt, native and black communities are very concerned about whites adopting non white children. It is a huge issue in the US as well as in Canada

That’s truly a shame imo. I wonder if the people who are concerned about interracial adoption have ever been in the unfortunate position to not be able to have biological children of their own. Unfortunately, I will not be having my own biological children, despite how badly I sometimes long for children of my own. I would love to open my heart and life to a child, no matter his or her race/ethnicity. So while I get that people may be concerned about interracial adoption, many people are not able to have biological children... and most aren’t abusive monsters. JMO

 

[LeighB]

I am mystified. If the calls do not fit into the category of abuse, who is investigating them and why? ...
How does CPS justify child abuse with going barefoot unless it is on a farm or city street filled with toxic and animal waste. No guidelines in some agencies?

I suppose not. When asked, they responded, "Well, we have to look into every call." No, you don't. If someone called and said, "Hi, I'm reporting my neighbor because the dad is black and the mom is white and they just had a baby and that's abuse," you'd laugh in their face and hang up on them. You use judgment to decide what to investigate and what not to investigate. They need to use their judgment better.

I wonder if this particular type of thing probably happens more in quiet communities without a lot for them to do.

Without a doubt, native and black communities are very concerned about whites adopting non white children. It is a huge issue in the US as well as in Canada

I really do understand the concern, but at the same time, I really do understand the fact that there are a *lot* more black children in foster care with no families than black families waiting in line to adopt them. Can we really get upset about this as long as A) All possible reasonable efforts are made for reunification and reaching out to family first, and B) there are still far more in foster care than those of the same race asking to adopt them?

Perhaps along with a national database there could be some kind of national guidelines for agencies? Although then there's the issue of laws and those differences... Like the new free range kid law in Utah or how some places it's not abuse to not have electricity as long as all needs are actually met... I don't know

My personal standard includes "If it was universal 200 years ago, it is NOT abuse or neglect today."

 

[bluesneakers]

My personal standard includes "If it was universal 200 years ago, it is NOT abuse or neglect today."

To include child labor?

 

[human]

Of course it is. God forbid that anyone try and take these children out of the foster pipeline and give them a permanent home. That is a huge issue and must be dealt with---

I think listening to the community for their suggestions and solutions is a first step. Why are they in the pipeline already?

 

[flourish]

I suppose not. When asked, they responded, "Well, we have to look into every call." No, you don't. If someone called and said, "Hi, I'm reporting my neighbor because the dad is black and the mom is white and they just had a baby and that's abuse," you'd laugh in their face and hang up on them. You use judgment to decide what to investigate and what not to investigate. They need to use their judgment better.

I wonder if this particular type of thing probably happens more in quiet communities without a lot for them to do.



I really do understand the concern, but at the same time, I really do understand the fact that there are a *lot* more black children in foster care with no families than black families waiting in line to adopt them. Can we really get upset about this as long as A) All possible reasonable efforts are made for reunification and reaching out to family first, and B) there are still far more in foster care than those of the same race asking to adopt them?



My personal standard includes "If it was universal 200 years ago, it is NOT abuse or neglect today."

Didn't kids work and die in factories and mines pretty standardly? IDK... My dad's first official chore was, at age four, "here's a rope, go get the calf two fields over." I'm cool with that not being okay for a four year old now. Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[human]

To include child labor?

And not only child labor. Child mariage. School? Forget it. Orphan train? No problem. Being beaten and sex abused at Indian boarding schools? You know,
Getting the savage out of them. No problem. Lynchings for looking at a white woman? No problem. Lots more I am sure

 

[human]

And there are people who are very concerned about same sex couples adopting children.

I don’t think that is in the least the same as native and black communities finally addressing their concnerns about white adoption.