CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #6

[Mira_Eg]

I really don't understand this: Why would the children "never be able to live normal independent lives as adults....

IMO, this was always the couple's plan.The children lacked any survival skills required to fit in the current age in terms of technology and other essential tools and knowledge. Imagine a teenager in 2018 who doesn't have a mobile phone, an email account, a primary-education degree or a licence to drive a car. They were destined to live in seclusion and be used as extra numbers in camps and rallies. Slogans and pretentious phrases the couple put in the children's minds don't qualify a young man / woman for work market. It only guarantees them more bullying by others till they choose to withdrew from the public space and stay with their manipulative parents. it is another control tactic to be left with no choice but staying with your abuser. Those two nasty women had been killing the children slowly over a decade, leaving them no choices in life then literally killed them. JMO

 

[human]

That one is just classic awful... You already had something to cry about... I hate when adults just discount children's feelings.

Yup. It is as if childen are a different species. Why adults think they can do unto children what they would not have done unto them is beyond me.

The US is filled with people that have needs because of childhood. It is not because we were raised in ways that were positive.

So what? Learn. Improve. As Paul Wellstome said, “We all do better when we all do better.”

 

[Smoneywcbs]

When I adopted my oldest she was so addicted to crack we couldn't turn the lights on, no one could wear perfume, I wore her in a sling for six months cause she'd cry when I took her out...and I mean wail for hours....she then she had a seizure...and another...and a cat scan that said she had cerebral palsy and would never walk....then she was autistic...then on the spectrum....then just has sensory dysfunction... now possibly ADD...the social workers and doctors pretty much told me I'd be parenting her at home for the rest of my life and to get prepared.

With every diagnosis I cried and I braced myself for the future (I'm doing that now with my little one who they say has severe mental illness) and one day, I was like...this is BS...and I just decided not to listen anymore. She's in middle school going to an arts academy as a dancer and an artist studying diplomacy because she speaks fluent Mandarin, she's braiding her hair right now for a big show tomorrow....so, I'm glad I never believed them.

Perhaps similar things were being said to J and S about their children and they unfortunately did believe them. When I read the abuse report that was linked up thread, the first thing I thought was "they are afraid of their kids" not afraid of their culture etc, but flat out afraid of something (diagnosis, failure to thrive, potential behavior issues, history of lying) and they are using archaic disciplinary tools cause they are terrified of the kid's future...possible failures? Social workers will scare you about Fetal Alcohol syndrome and potential learning problems the kids may have down the road. I think this is so that the parents use the services provided if and when they encounter these problems.

Also this article seems like Jen was most likely battling some severe mental health issues....and probably needed medical intervention.

Thanks for sharing, that makes so much sense to me that it could be a possibility - that they were afraid of them. Only thing is, were the children getting regular medical care? I’m surprised more has not come out about this. My friend adopted two African American siblings and though she makes very good money, they still qualify for Medicaid as their primary. You would think their medical history could be pulled up easily by the state - but wonder if privacy keeps it from being released?

So wonderful to hear about your daughter thriving.


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[human]

I realize that, in the context of things, this is a little different but if someone approached me at a festival (and I am a heavy festival goer) and offered to "mentor" my kids or whatever, it would freak me the heck out and I'd go far, far away. Like I said, because we know other things that they might have done, it just adds to the isolation that it looks like they were creating. In everyday reality, though, I'd think it plenty weird if people I'd just met started telling me that they wanted to hang around my kids and mentor them. No, no, no.

Normally, yes. But this was a woman who is black that saw a need for those kids.They did not mind staying for two weeks with a woman, Alexandra, that they met on FB. They did not mind the Ribner guy coming. So what’s up with that?

 

[musemoon]

Thanks for sharing, that makes so much sense to me that it could be a possibility - that they were afraid of them. Only thing is, were the children getting regular medical care? I’m surprised more has not come out about this. My friend adopted two African American siblings and though she makes very good money, they still qualify for Medicaid as their primary. You would think their medical history could be pulled up easily by the state - but wonder if privacy keeps it from being released?


So wonderful to hear about your daughter thriving.


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She's an amazing kid thanks. When you adopt through the state there is at least six months when you have social worker visits, doctor's appointments, lawyer visits etc, every week before you can adopt. It was probably enough for them to hear all kinds of crazy things and then just go in to commando parenting mode....even if it wasn't warranted.

 

[mtnlites]

Normally, yes. But this was a woman who is black that saw a need for those kids.They did not mind staying for two weeks with a woman, Alexandra, that they met on FB. They did not mind the Ribner guy coming. So what’s up with that?

I can't answer that. I'm not them and I wasn't there when the opportunities arose. I'm just taking that woman's words with a grain of salt. I'm a parent. I have approached others and asked if they could teach my kids something. I'd possibly be interested in them getting a mentor when they were older. However, if someone approached me and offered to mentor my kids, I'd think it was strange and I'd probably just say no right off the bat. That's generally something that evolves over a period of time. First I'd want to build a relationship with the person and get a feeling for what kind of person they were-even if that relationship was only online. And then, if I liked her and felt comfortable with her, I'd consider it in a contained environment. We don't know that it didn't happen like that with this situation-all we have are the woman's words. Considering that they DID form relationships with other people, I tend to give this situation a pass. All I keep thinking is that this could have been a totally different kind of crime if things had been a little different. Remember Cherish Perrywinkl? A man approached her and her mother in a store, offered to buy them some clothes and groceries, and then raped and killed Cherish.

There are many things that the Hart women did that reek of creating a world of abuse, neglect and isolation. IMO, this was not one of those things.

 

[bluesneakers]

Normally, yes. But this was a woman who is black that saw a need for those kids.They did not mind staying for two weeks with a woman, Alexandra, that they met on FB. They did not mind the Ribner guy coming. So what’s up with that?

IMO the woman wasn't offering anything useful to them. Helping the kids was fine if it also helped J&S.

 

[human]

IMO the woman wasn't offering anything useful to them. Helping the kids was fine if it also helped J&S.

IIRC , she offered to to teach the “ moms” how to take care of the hair? I forget.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4427098/2010-12844-Report.pdf In this report,the young girl clearly states that their form of discipline included taking away a meal. This started back in MN,so this "discipline" continued throughout the years. No one can convince me that this family represented what is good in terms of love and peace...especially since both parents were well fed indeed! The Hart parents will not be remembered for anything except for their last act when they were alive.

Horrible women. It appears the other kids were coached. It also seems Jen preferred to hit (they called it spankings) the kids for any infraction. Sounds like Jen had a really bad temper and made Sarah take the fall. Really strange. I feel so bad for these kids to endure so much abuse over the years.

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[MzOpinion8d]

Well they must have been present for these sessions watching him like a hawk because piano lessons allows for a lot of bonding and chatter... or they could have been trying to vicariously live this experience.


MOO*

Good point, and it makes sense in many aspects of their lives beyond the piano lessons. Very insightful comment!

 

[bluesneakers]

IIRC , she offered to to teach the “ moms” how to take care of the hair? I forget.

That's what I remember, but there must have been more if mentoring was involved? Anyway, it's obvious those women didn't care about Abigail's, Sierra's, or Hannah's hair so there was no reason to be interested in what the woman was offering.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Reposting the timeline.

March 2004: Earliest known public record that shows Jennifer Hart and Sarah Gengler, both from South Dakota, residing in Alexandria, Minnesota.

Summer 2004: The Harts take in a foster child named Lee. Then they later abandoned her the next Spring after they dropped her off at a therapist’s appointment, never to see her again.

May 2005: Sarah Hart petitions to change her last name from Gengler to Hart.

September 2006: Jennifer and Sarah Hart adopt siblings Markis, Abigail and Hannah.

September 2008: According to a police report from Alexandria, Minnesota, Hannah, then 6, tells authorities that one of her mothers bruised her with a belt. Asked about the beating, Jennifer and Sarah Hart tell a police investigator and social worker the girl had fallen down the stairs.

February 2009: Jennifer and Sarah adopt Devonte and two of his siblings — bringing their number of children to six. An article from Paper Trail, a New Zealand-based news outlet, describes his adoption. The article said by age 4, the boy had been abused, neglected, shot at and had endured other traumas.

November 2010: Police in Alexandria, Minnesota interview Abigail Hart, 6 at the time, after a teacher discovers bruises stretching from her sternum to her navel. The girl says Jennifer Hart hit her with a closed fist, put her head in a cold bath, then hit her again, court records show. She was then grounded, the girl told police, which meant she had to stay in bed and miss lunch.

December 2010: Alexandria, MN home listed for sale.

April 2011: Sarah Hart pleads guilty to abusing Abigail Hart and is sentenced to a year of probation for misdemeanor domestic assault, court records show. Sarah told police she was the one who hit Abigail, even though the girl told authorities her mother Jennifer had done it. The next day, all six of the Hart children are taken out of public schools. They never attend public school again.

October 2011: The family lives in Alexandria, Minnesota, for a time and takes part in local activism. Hart family members including Devonte and Jennifer Hart participate in an Occupy Minneapolis demonstration.

2012: According to friends in Oregon, Sarah Hart travels to Portland to look for work. Jennifer Hart and their children later join her. Hannah loses front teeth after allegedly falling in house acceding to Jen's FB post.

August 2012: Alexandria MN house re-listed for sale.

October 2012: Sarah begins work at Kohls in Oregon (Sarah's LinkedIn resume).

December 2012: Jen and kids travel to Oregon, getting a ride with the Lees after rollover accident in Missoula According to Statesman Journal article.

April 2013- Alexandria, MN house sold. The family moves to West Linn, family friend Alexandra Argyropoulos tells Oregon child welfare officials that the Hart parents have been depriving their kids of food as punishment, she says. The Harts break off contact with her when they learn of it. Argyropoulos says she was told the Hart children had been interviewed by Oregon officials; it was apparent that each child had been coached by their mothers on what to say; and nothing more could be done by the Oregon Department of Human Services.

2013: Portland Portland musician of the band Nahko and Medicine for the People Ribner began offering music classes to the Hart children. The Hart children also started volunteering at the Good Neighbor Family Pantry

July 2013: The police department responds to a call to the Hart's house.

November 2014: Family members participate in a Portland protest of a Missouri grand jury declining to indict a Ferguson police officer in the fatal shooting of Michael Brown. Devonte and a Portland police officer hug, and the photo of the moment goes viral.

March 2016: Family members join U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont onstage during a presidential campaign rally in Vancouver.

May 2017: Jennifer and Sarah Hart buy a two-story, 3-bedroom home on 2 acres of land in the Woodland area of Clark County, Washington, property records show.

June 2017: Jen's rough year FB post.

March 23, 2018: The Washington State Department of Social and Health Services opens a Child Protective Services investigation in which the Hart children are "identified as potential victims of alleged abuse or neglect."

March 23, 2018: The Washington State Department of Social and Health Services attempts without success to make contact with the Hart family.

March 24, 2018 - 3:00 AM: Sarah Hart sends a middle-of-the-night text message to friend Cheryl Hart, only hours after child protective services first visited the family's home, saying she was so sick she might have to go to the hospital. The friend never made contact again.

March 24, 2018 - 8:14 AM: The family is in or around Newport, Oregon, police say. It's believed they continue south on Route 101 until they reach State Route 1 in Leggett, California.

March 24, 2018 - 8:00 PM The Harts travel south on State Route 1 until they reach the Fort Bragg area in Mendocino.

March 25, 2018 - 9:00 PM: The family leaves Fort Bragg.

March 26, 2018: The Washington State Department of Social and Health Services again unsuccessfully attempts to make contact with the Hart family. They call 911 and ask the Sheriff's Department to do a welfare check on the family.

March 26, 2018 - 1:15 PM: Cheryl Hart calls 911 and asked the Sheriff's Department to do a welfare check on Sarah Hart. "Nobody has been able to get ahold of her, talk to her or seen her since," she told the dispatcher.

March 26, 2018: A passer-by along Highway 1 in Westport, California, calls 911 after looking down a 100-foot embankment and seeing an SUV upside down on the rocky shoreline. Five people are found dead: three children outside the SUV and two women inside.

March 27, 2018: The Washington State Department of Social and Health Services makes a third unsuccessful attempt to contact the Hart family.

March 28, 2018: The women are identified by the Mendocino County's Sheriff's Office as Jennifer and Sarah Hart and their children as Markis, Jeremiah and Abigail. Three of their other children: Devonte, Hannah and Sierra, remain missing. Sheriff Tom Allman said a search is ongoing for the remaining three children.

March 29, 2018: Police continue to search for the three missing children, including Devonte, and to investigate why the SUV plunged off the California cliff. Authorities don't know if the kids were also in the car, but are basing their search on the assumption that they were thrown from the car into the cliffs or the surf.

March 31, 2018: Officials reveal the speedometer on the Harts' wrecked SUV was "pinned" at 90 mph.

April 2, 2018: Officials say the crash may have been intentional, saying data taken from the family's SUV shows the vehicle came to a complete stop at the Route 1 pullout before speeding off the cliff. The search for the missing children becomes a "recovery effort."

April 2, 2018: "I'm to the point where I'm no longer calling this an accident, I'm calling it a crime," Mendocino County Sheriff Tom Allman tells HLN's Ashleigh Banfield.

April 7, 2018: An unidentified body, believed to be that of a black female, is found in the ocean near the site of the crash. Officials said an identification could take weeks.

This is a fantastic timeline, but may I make one request? Would you please change the Feb 2009 entry to say Devonte’s siblings names as well?

I think because it’s obvious J & S favored him that I just feel like all the kids should be recognized by name rather than just “Devonte’s siblings”.

Thank you!!

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Love-promoters who don't love, educators who don't educate, community-promoters who isolate, non-conformists who force conformity ... they certainly had the hypocrite thing nailed, didn't they?

And the irony of their last name being Hart, when they seem so heartless...

 

[MzOpinion8d]

[QUOTE..... this "discipline" continued throughout the years. ....

It is difficult to visualize what this little girl along with her siblings had gone through. It is simply a kind of torture by definition. You do not drag a 6-year old to the bathroom, partially undressing her, putting her head under cold water while hitting her with your bloody fist leaving bruises n her tiny body from the sternum to the belly button and her back too. The other sadist 'mum' was a accomplice and an enabler in these savage practices. The court should have sent both to prison. jmo[/QUOTE]

I agree. If I did to another adult what she did to that little girl, I’d be charged criminally!

 

[BooBooTheFool]

A society that believes children can be taught respect, obedience, manners and be disciplined without resorting to physical measures is one that makes that option less of an easy "go to" for so many who don't cope well with parenthood.

This is the idea I keep trying to impart on my mother when she expresses shock about child abuse cases. It's not at all as far removed from whoopins or whippins designed to discipline kids. And maladjusted people can take it to extremes and that gets passed down and so on and sort forth.

 

[BooBooTheFool]

That's what I remember, but there must have been more if mentoring was involved? Anyway, it's obvious those women didn't care about Abigail's, Sierra's, or Hannah's hair so there was no reason to be interested in what the woman was offering.

I see a lot of non-black people who adopt black kids reject this. it's terrible to me on several different levels. a black person's hair is different and you should attempt to care for the child's hair instead of pretending a difference doesn't exist.

 

[Breamworthy]

Quoted from kizzykat in previous thread regarding the Dr. Oz show with the neighbors:

The DeKalbs said what they saw of the Harts was nothing like the what has been portrayed on SM. Kids didn't play outside, they'd have a snowstorm, there was no sledding, nothing.
They also said when the story broke on the Turpins they both watched it and Dana said 'that's what's going on next door'.

What the actual &!?@ ???

I've been trying to give these folks the benefit of the doubt, saying it must have been hard for them, they weren't prepared to handle a situation like this...

but if you legit think a Turpin type situation is going on with the kids next door and you still don't call authorities, I don't even know how to begin to make an excuse for that. That was infuriating to hear.

 

[bluesneakers]

I see a lot of non-black people who adopt black kids reject this. it's terrible to me on several different levels. a black person's hair is different and you should attempt to care for the child's hair instead of pretending a difference doesn't exist.

And it's important. That's what bothers me. It shows they were either ignorant of their daughters' needs, or they were aware of their needs but didn't care.

I mean there are a bazillion youtube videos they could have referenced if they weren't open to personal help. But nope.

 

[BooBooTheFool]

I'm sorry this happened to you. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it doesn't happen. All I can think of is the pain and future issues that creates. My upbringing was a little more small town free range, though we had a host of other problems. My husband was brought up the way you were and I can see how negatively it has affected him. Your parents literally told you that you were not allowed to have emotions, that it was not ok to feel upset or hurt by their actions. My husband used to have immense anger issues, I feel like this would happen to most kids.

That's the main after effect and just being super out of touch with your emotions.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

I really don't understand this: Why would the children "never be able to live normal independent lives as adults -they would never be able to marry or have children of their own"? There are many, many children who suffer abuse and, especially after being adopted into loving families, who are able to do those things. Some do not, some do. From what I can see, the children all looked pretty smart -they could read, seemed absolutely adorable. None of these children would be able to do any of those things???????

It sort of seems like JH projecting herself onto the children: Can't "have" children; unable to live a normal life! I'd bet some of those children were more "normal" than her.

JH was quite the story teller. She was also quite the manipulatorr. I believe she had specific motives for every tale she told.

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