CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #6

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I feel bad for the DeKalbs. They did what they thought was right, when they thought it was right.
 
gitana1 said:
In a few articles. They kept saying that the kids had eating disorder/hoarding issues to explain away their claims of having food withheld. Then their friend Nasheen said they told her the kids would never be able to move out, have jobs, get married. All 6. http://www.koin.com/news/crashes/jennifer-hart-friend-im-more-confused-than-before/1129169442
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That is just weird. The Harts adopted kids “from hard places” and I could see that some of them may find certain levels of independence challenging. But the chances that all six were that significantly affected by their histories seems slim.

I have a handful of children “from hard places.” We would never limit any of them. The goal is to give them everything we can to show them as much of a future as we can prepare them for. We want them to have choices, independence to the degree reasonable individually, to be contributing members of society, to be happy and healthy. It is likely one of mine may need a LOT of support into adulthood; but the goal is to still let him confidently handle what he will be able to (job, housing, education?). And again, it’s ONE, not all of them.

The chances it would be ALL, unless you take only extremely medically fragile children, possibly, seems sooooo slim.
 
What is in the Naselle area? Were there events there? Great camping?
 
Lilibet said:
Article with FBI press release about continuing the search for Devonte and Hannah. It includes the hugging Xavier Rudd video for those who haven’t seen it.

http://kymkemp.com/2018/04/19/fbi-continues-search-for-two-missing-hart-children/
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when xavier hugged him i hope he felt love. i wonder if xavier felt any of devonte's sadness. and if he did, wondered why.

that's a very tearful emotional moment. i am so sad for all of the kids. they really were deeply feeling, talented, intelligent and beautiful children. and they surely didn't get that way from their mother's abuse.

and gosh, i really hope that even in the 'photo op' and festival times they did feel the love everyone else had for them. and also gave each other that love while they were kept prisoners in their own home. i believe they did as devonte wanted to provide food for all 6 of them. he risked so much to help feed his brothers and sisters.
 
Jen Hart is a cipher. No info from friends, school, etc in SD?
 
SaguaroSpirit said:
I feel bad for the DeKalbs. They did what they thought was right, when they thought it was right.
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I think the entire focus should be on the Hart women. THEY are the ones who were directly involved with these children. WE all have lost these beautiful children,because of their actions.
 
Mira_Eg said:
IMO, this was always the couple's plan.The children lacked any survival skills required to fit in the current age in terms of technology and other essential tools and knowledge. Imagine a teenager in 2018 who doesn't have a mobile phone, an email account, a primary-education degree or a licence to drive a car. They were destined to live in seclusion and be used as extra numbers in camps and rallies. Slogans and pretentious phrases the couple put in the children's minds don't qualify a young man / woman for work market. It only guarantees them more bullying by others till they choose to withdrew from the public space and stay with their manipulative parents. it is another control tactic to be left with no choice but staying with your abuser. Those two nasty women had been killing the children slowly over a decade, leaving them no choices in life then literally killed them. JMO :(
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While I don't disagree with the general gist of your comment, there ARE teenagers and people who live in the US like this and they're perfectly fine. I know plenty of teens who live in larger cities with good public transportation and they don't have licenses-or vehicles at all. I know lots of teens who weren't aloud to drive until they were 18, or until they had jobs and could afford to purchase their own insurance and vehicle. As far as the mobile phone, we don't have one in my family at ALL. If we need to call someone, we Skype from our laptops at home. We're not the only ones who got tired of the big cell phone and cable bills and "cut the cord." And it's still possible to enroll in a trade school or university even without a "degree." Some people get GEDS, some are home schooled and have diplomas. I was homeschooled so technically I don't have a "degree" from a regular high school but I was still accepted into the #1 liberal arts school in the south. One of my kids is homeschooled as well and they won't possess a "degree" either.

My point is, kids can live without the things that are mentioned. As long as they are still properly socialized, provided with some type of education (which I would say needs to include an understanding of basic technology), and taught to be independent then they don't need a cell phone, car, or email address. However, they DO need adequate nutrition, education, life skills, independence, and socialization. It doesn't sound like they were receiving these things. THAT is a problem.
 
whoopiecushions said:
I don't see what's so weird about this. This is how people from relationships and friendships. They have similar interests and meet at an event. They connect and offer to stay in touch. This woman also happened to be a Black woman adopted by a white mom. She could relate to that so she offered to help. What's so strange about that? Humans do this all the time. They relate and try to connect with each other. It's not like she invited herself to their house or anything. Plus I'm sure they bonded and chatted for a bit. I doubt she just walked straight up to them out of nowhere and said, "Hey I want to mentor your kids!" And she followed up which means Jen provided her contact info. When you provide contact info that's basically giving them permission for you to contact them.

A conscientious adopted parent should want her kids to connect with other people from their culture and probably appreciate an opportunity like this. Actually a conscientious adoptive parent wouldn't insist on living in an all-white town after adopting POC kids, which would've greatly reduced the need for a mentor anyway. If you live in a diverse town, your child will have natural opportunities to meet and develop relationships with people from their culture anyway, thus reducing the need to specifically find a mentor.
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This is where we get to enjoy different opinions. I think it's weird for someone to ask to "mentor" my kids right off the bat, before even getting to really know us. I prefer friendships to take a more organic approach, with us spending time together first. And it's perfectly fine for me to think this. You may not think it's weird and that's perfectly fine, too.
 
HeidiTX232 said:
That is just weird. The Harts adopted kids “from hard places” and I could see that some of them may find certain levels of independence challenging. But the chances that all six were that significantly affected by their histories seems slim.

I have a handful of children “from hard places.” We would never limit any of them. The goal is to give them everything we can to show them as much of a future as we can prepare them for. We want them to have choices, independence to the degree reasonable individually, to be contributing members of society, to be happy and healthy. It is likely one of mine may need a LOT of support into adulthood; but the goal is to still let him confidently handle what he will be able to (job, housing, education?). And again, it’s ONE, not all of them.

The chances it would be ALL, unless you take only extremely medically fragile children, possibly, seems sooooo slim.
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And what's really crazy is that people who knew and interacted with the kids and saw how articulate they were and how...normal for lack of a better word, didn't question such absolute and incredible statements? They blindly believed this couple, IMO because they represented something unassailable - peace-loving, meditating, lesbian parents of a whole bunch of children of color, constantly oppressed and attacked by racists and homophobes. I feel that automatically gave them credibility in their progressive circles and so I guess their friends just guzzled down all the Koolaid they served based on those factors.

My gosh so many red flags in what several of their friends have said. But they were beyond criticism or even skepticism I guess.

Maybe there's a lesson in this. Don't automatically swallow something that doesn't make sense just because you like or admire the person offering it? Keep alert. Not paranoid but we need to trust our guts more and make sure we are giving respect when it's earned instead of denying it based on people being different than us or giving it simply because we think they're like ourselves.

We are all humans. Everyone who thinks or looks a certain way isn't necessarily bad or good. If something seems wrong, maybe we should set aside assumptions?

I mean I know I do all of this and it is easier said than done. But I'm going to try to challenge my assumptions more.
 
gitana1 said:
And what's really crazy is that people who knew and interacted with the kids and saw how articulate they were and how...normal for lack of a better word, didn't question such absolute and incredible statements? They blindly believed this couple, IMO because they represented something unassailable - peace-loving, meditating, lesbian parents of a whole bunch of children of color, constantly oppressed and attacked by racists and homophobes. I feel that automatically gave them credibility in their progressive circles and so I guess their friends just guzzled down all the Koolaid they served based on those factors.

My gosh so many red flags in what several of their friends have said. But they were beyond criticism or even skepticism I guess.

.
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Maybe the women warped their friends' sense of reality by providing "proof" of their words. They could have taken small, normal things that the kids did and then used them as examples as to why the kids were "disabled" or whatever the word is they might have used. Or they could have exaggerated a lot. Explanatory wise, they could have been good at convincing people that the children behaved in a completely different way at home. "Oh, see how well Devonte is eating today at the festival? You should have seen him last night at home-he was hoarding food and binging until he threw up. We HATE keeping food away from him but we're really afraid for his health!"

If the women were convincing at talking about doctors' visits, diagnoses, etc. then it was probably pretty easy for people to deny any nagging doubt they had.

If there's one thing that narcissists and Munchhausen by Proxy people are good at, it's fooling the public. We have no real proof that these women had either thing, I am just thinking back to other cases and how people in the families' lives didn't "catch on" too quickly.
 
mtnlites said:
Maybe the women warped their friends' sense of reality by providing "proof" of their words. They could have taken small, normal things that the kids did and then used them as examples as to why the kids were "disabled" or whatever the word is they might have used. Or they could have exaggerated a lot. Explanatory wise, they could have been good at convincing people that the children behaved in a completely different way at home. "Oh, see how well Devonte is eating today at the festival? You should have seen him last night at home-he was hoarding food and binging until he threw up. We HATE keeping food away from him but we're really afraid for his health!"

If the women were convincing at talking about doctors' visits, diagnoses, etc. then it was probably pretty easy for people to deny any nagging doubt they had.

If there's one thing that narcissists and Munchhausen by Proxy people are good at, it's fooling the public. We have no real proof that these women had either thing, I am just thinking back to other cases and how people in the families' lives didn't "catch on" too quickly.
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Scary. Oh I'm sure they were doing this and quite good at it. It's creepy.

I think I'm experiencing something like it in my office right now. A colleague who works in the building has had a litany of ever-increasingly horrible things happening to her. But I became skeptical because it's all just too much. The most recent thing she's told me (after life-threatening heart problems that would cause her to have to radically change her entire life, to debilitating, untreatable migraines, major health issues and legal issues and death among close relatives, and much more) is a new life threatening health issue that again is going to cause her to have to give up her career - suspiciously like the first but different. But I googled what she told me and it's not what she said. Oh she also claims she has no insurance, can't get any and the treatments necessary to saving her life are astronomical.

So I;m skeptical but i think she has another colleague fooled and is getting pity and other stuff from that person. I think she also tells all of us different things and swears us all to secrecy so no one compares notes.

It's very weird. And very easy to get fooled. People like this are good at what they do.
 
mtnlites said:
This is where we get to enjoy different opinions. I think it's weird for someone to ask to "mentor" my kids right off the bat, before even getting to really know us. I prefer friendships to take a more organic approach, with us spending time together first. And it's perfectly fine for me to think this. You may not think it's weird and that's perfectly fine, too.
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Considering that we all know that befriending kids is a well known tactic of pedophiles, your cautious approach makes sense. It’s no guarantee, but I too would be taken aback by a casual acquaintance making such an offer. Helping with hair is one thing, but “mentoring” is quite another. However, I’m also inclined to think that Jen and Sarah didn’t want any of their friends to get too close.
 
gitana1 said:
Scary. Oh I'm sure they were doing this and quite good at it. It's creepy.

I think I'm experiencing something like it in my office right now. A colleague who works in the building has had a litany of ever-increasingly horrible things happening to her. But I became skeptical because it's all just too much. The most recent thing she's told me (after life-threatening heart problems that would cause her to have to radically change her entire life, to debilitating, untreatable migraines, major health issues and legal issues and death among close relatives, and much more) is a new life threatening health issue that again is going to cause her to have to give up her career - suspiciously like the first but different. But I googled what she told me and it's not what she said. Oh she also claims she has no insurance, can't get any and the treatments necessary to saving her life are astronomical.

So I;m skeptical but i think she has another colleague fooled and is getting pity and other stuff from that person. I think she also tells all of us different things and swears us all to secrecy so no one compares notes.

It's very weird. And very easy to get fooled. People like this are good at what they do.
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Yes, people can be very good at this and I have no doubt Jen and Sarah played this game, except when Jen went silent. With your colleague is the “other stuff” money? I wonder what the end game is....sympathy, attention, money, excuses for doing her job poorly....? I can’t stand it when a friend has told me something confidential and then I start hearing about it from everyone! But I digress. :)
 
gitana1 said:
Scary. Oh I'm sure they were doing this and quite good at it. It's creepy.

I think I'm experiencing something like it in my office right now. A colleague who works in the building has had a litany of ever-increasingly horrible things happening to her. But I became skeptical because it's all just too much. The most recent thing she's told me (after life-threatening heart problems that would cause her to have to radically change her entire life, to debilitating, untreatable migraines, major health issues and legal issues and death among close relatives, and much more) is a new life threatening health issue that again is going to cause her to have to give up her career - suspiciously like the first but different. But I googled what she told me and it's not what she said. Oh she also claims she has no insurance, can't get any and the treatments necessary to saving her life are astronomical.

So I;m skeptical but i think she has another colleague fooled and is getting pity and other stuff from that person. I think she also tells all of us different things and swears us all to secrecy so no one compares notes.

It's very weird. And very easy to get fooled. People like this are good at what they do.
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Be very careful around her. Try to keep her as far away from you and your world as you can.

She reminds me of a friend of mine who I had let stay with me on multiple occasions (6months, 1 year, etc) who returned from living in London for 8 years and, unbeknownst to me, returned with some heavy duty psychological problems. Our friendship ended in court when she attempted to get a restraining order against me for hacking her emails, phone, and anything else she could think of. It was insane. The judge ruled in my favor because she had zero reason to believe I had done anything, much less proof. I have heard that she has since turned her mother’s church against her, taken a cousin to court, and created problems for everyone who has been kind enough to give her a place to stay. I wish her family would find a way to get her the professional help she desperately needs.

Anyway, lol sorry for the rant, but I can’t stress how dangerous people like that can truly be to those who help them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Lilibet said:
Considering that we all know that befriending kids is a well known tactic of pedophiles, your cautious approach makes sense. It’s no guarantee, but I too would be taken aback by a casual acquaintance making such an offer. Helping with hair is one thing, but “mentoring” is quite another. However, I’m also inclined to think that Jen and Sarah didn’t want any of their friends to get too close.
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It's also something about the word "forever" that sets off alarm bells, as in the relatively new acquaintance telling JH that she felt a connection with her kids and wanted "to be in their lives forever."

I don't know, maybe I just watched The Shining too many times at an impressionable age, but that makes me squirm. JH obviously had other reasons as well for excluding strangers, but I would be wary of this offer as well.
 
Lilibet said:
Considering that we all know that befriending kids is a well known tactic of pedophiles, your cautious approach makes sense. It’s no guarantee, but I too would be taken aback by a casual acquaintance making such an offer. Helping with hair is one thing, but “mentoring” is quite another. However, I’m also inclined to think that Jen and Sarah didn’t want any of their friends to get too close.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's within context of this situation that makes their reluctance more nefarious. That's actually what one of my original posts said, too. It just got lost somewhere along the way...
 
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