ACTIVE SEARCH CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 Mar 2018 #4

[gcharlie]

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...art-family-that-plunged-off-california-cliff/

"Groener did not remember seeing police visit, nor did he suspect mistreatment.

For all the time they spent inside, he also saw the family pack for camping. They mentioned that the kids were not allowed sugar. The couple brought home vegetables from a farm.

In fact, they were regulars at a food pantry and farm about 40 minutes south of Portland in Sherwood, Oregon, where they could pick up organic produce and save money.

“They were really focused on paying off debt to buy a home,” said Tyler Boggs, president of the Good Neighbor Family Pantry, which provides imperfect fruits and vegetables from supermarkets at no cost.

Soon, the Harts began to volunteer at the farm, said Boggs’ wife, Elizabeth Boggs, who operates Heart 2 Heart farms. The kids would help for a while, then play with the Boggses’ animals or read in the sun.

“Devonte was probably the most outspoken and social. Sierra and Hannah and Abigail were quiet. They would read a lot when they were here. They all loved the animals,” Tyler said.

The children talked with passion about social justice and the outdoors.

“They were focused on the world being a better place, and I think that comes from being raised by people where the emphasis is love and treating the planet carefully,” he said. “They certainly were not stereotypical teenagers.”

Tyler spent time with the children at the farm — away from their parents — feeding goats or cows. He said he never saw indications that the children were being abused or deprived of food. If they were, they “had opportunities in abundance to reach out,” Tyler said.

Financial strains can add a lot of pressure to an already dysfunctional and abusive relationship.

The comment about paying off debt was interesting to me.

Jen and Sarah bought their home in Minnesota back in 2005, paying $95K for it. Peak interest rates in 2005 were 4.25%. Assuming a mortgage of $90K, the P&I payment would have been $545 per month. 2014 property taxes were under $1K per year, so a generous monthly escrow for property taxes from 2006 to when they moved to Oregon would have been $100 per month. Basic housing cost of $700 per month max.

It would be normal to assume that Jen was bringing in income prior to adoption and that the couple was saving money. But we all know what happens when one assumes.

With adoption assistance allowances, the family financial situation should have been decent from 2006 to mid 2012, due to the low housing cost.

But sometime in 2012, Sarah lost her job and this had to put severe financial strain on the family. The MN house was relisted for sale on August 6, 2012, so it seems Sarah lost her job in July or early August. Her LinkedIn resume shows she started working at Kohls in Oregon in October 2012, so the family could have been without her income for 2 to 4 months.

There are no details about the move to Oregon, nor is the time precisely known. The MN house sold in early April 2013. An article in the Statesman Journal has Jen and the kids traveling to Oregon from MN in December 2012 and getting in a rollover accident around 12/26/2012, so it's fair to surmise the whole family took up residence in Oregon sometime between January 2013 and April 2013. They rented a house at 2405 5th Ave., West Linn, OR. This area is an expensive one to live in and their housing costs had to be double, triple or more than what they paid in Alexandria.

The sale listing for the Alexandria property shows different furniture from pictures of the West Linn home. Moving is expensive and they may have bought new furniture instead.

Jen's June 2017 FB post talking about the family getting slammed in the past year did allude to financial difficulties. She said they almost ended up being homeless due to discrimination from the government and insurance companies, which makes no sense, but that is what she posted. Add in Sarah's rear ended, car totaled and the other things Jen posted and there were some big financial things taking place.

If they were trying to pay down debt to buy the new home, this meant they were low on cash. Homes can be bought with small down payments, but mortgage insurance becomes part of the cost. Property taxes on the new place are over $3,700 per year, so a conservative estimate of the monthly housing payment including escrow is over $2,000 per month. Factor in that Markis turned 18 last year, so his adoption subsidy stopped and he would no longer be considered a dependent, since he was not in college. Even though money was tight, Sarah and Jen somehow saw fit to buy new living room furniture for the house in Washington state.

I do have to believe that this couple had enough money to support the family in Minnesota, and they probably got gifts and help from friends in terms of clothing and costumes for the kids. It may have dwindled off a bit when they moved to Oregon, but with them cutting themselves off that last spell in Oregon and then moving to Washington, the financial struggles must have been overwhelming.

The point of all of this is that 1) finances can add more pressure to a situation that is already a pressure cooker and 2) the bits and pieces of information here and there show that this couple did not make good financial decisions when money was tight. And there are two independent reports of money being tight, including one from Jen herself.

ETA: someone brought up the point that the rental in West Linn may have come furnished. This is a good point to consider and might explain why the furniture was different from home to home to home.

 

[11223344]

In this context, my mind went to jerky bc it definitely doesn't need refrigeration.

Maybe, somehow in the limited interactions with that neighbor, the kids said they aren't eating sugar? Also, I study diets and nutrition and many, many people cut out white sugar but still allow fruit, dates, honey, maple syrup, etc. they just avoid white sugar. Then other don't allow any sweeteners but do allow fruit and then others who don't do any sugar but what is naturally in vegetables.

Just my speculation and moo.

So you would know - and emma.laurens too.

​

Oh, God, how horrible.

Explains why it is on both sides. explains that it comes and goes and finally also explain why you see it alike in non bio siblings in the family.

Newer pics on page
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...a-Hart-12-Mendocino-County-26-Mar-2018/page81

 

[Deleted member 221283]

Hello. First post here, I have read al the Hart threads but have not seen this article here https://medium.com/@DeepGreenPhilly...ite-gaze-the-hart-family-tragedy-bb02416bb0ad

It certainly was written in anger and whatever you may think of its point of view, what struck me is this:
[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.843137)]One of the most difficult aspects of the Hart family tragedy to comprehend is why these women chose to starve their children. Days before his disappearance, Devonte had gone to his next door neighbor begging for food. This begging continued for five days in a row, and he was asking for food not only for himself but for his siblings as well. Here are the estimated weights and heights of the three missing children who were not recovered from the crash site: Devonte Hart, 5'1, 90 lbs, 15 years old; Sierra Hart, 4'5, 60 lbs, 15 years old; Hannah Hart, 4'1, 45 lbs, 16 years old. These are nowhere near age appropriate stats for children of their age. They were being starved. They were literally withering away.[/COLOR]

I guess the estimates are by the author because I have seen no other, let alone official, source for the weight of the children. What would be your guesstimate for especially Hannah? 45 lbs can’t be right, that’s less than 22.5 kilo, impossible methinks. My healthy, tall, sporty daughters were around 60 kilo at age 16 (thinking they were too fat, as you do at that age).

However, imo, the Hart children certainly were under weight. Regarding Markis’ cheeks/jawline, it is the first thing I noticed about him and certainly I’ve never seen anything like it. My heart goes out to him, he seems so unloved, always at the edge, in the corner, almost out of the frame.

 

[Lilibet]

There are updated pics I think of kids more recent. I can't link cause on Facebook group. But you can see that his face doesn't look like that, and Marcus's is less pronounced. They also look more filled out. Why I was speculating that the withholding meals as punishment wasn't the same as the Turpins. Not that it didn't happen. But from the pics, it looks like the kids came malnourished and underweight and really needed a lot of services and interventions, got opposite as well as using food restriction as punishment who knows how much. When already malnourished. I am not standing up for mothers at all. I just think kids would have reached out sooner if they were actively starving.

BBM

I don’t think you are really “victim blaming” but perhaps underestimating how difficult it is to get help. Despite reporting mistreatment they had not been rescued. We have no idea what punishment was meted out to Hannah (?) who escaped to the neighbors’. And I would imagine that malnutrition and severe hunger diminishes motivation and ability to “reach out.” The Turpin girl didn’t call 911 until another move was imminent that would have isolated them even more. Devonte seemed to be the favored child, so it appears he finally was moved to act. I’d like to know what tipped the balance. But tragically, reaching out resulted in death, not rescue as it did for the Turpins.
JMO

 

[waschbaer]

I wonder if the rental house in West Linn might have come furnished. It's unusual to find furnished rentals in the Portland area, but there are a few. Especially if it's a situation like someone renting out their house while they live abroad for a couple years or something like that.

 

[PayrollNerd]

"I am not standing up for mothers at all. I just think kids would have reached out sooner if they were actively starving."

I don't know that they would have done so. My siblings and I were hungry too and did our best to feed ourselves. There were 5 of us, brother age 11, brother age 8, myself age 7, sister age 4 and sister 18 months. One brother stole hotdogs from the 7 Eleven, we ate them raw. The cashier at the store turned a blind eye. I stole corn out of the field behind the house, we ate it raw. I stole apples off the neighbors tree while she yelled at me. My oldest brother tried to cook oatmeal once, and mistook salt for sugar, we ate it anyway.

 

[gcharlie]

I wonder if the rental house in West Linn might have come furnished. It's unusual to find furnished rentals in the Portland area, but there are a few. Especially if it's a situation like someone renting out their house while they live abroad for a couple years or something like that.

Good point. I will edit my post to include this as a consideration.

 

[Aescwynn]

Hello. First post here, I have read al the Hart threads but have not seen this article here https://medium.com/@DeepGreenPhilly...ite-gaze-the-hart-family-tragedy-bb02416bb0ad

Thanks for posting this. Much food for thought there.

 

[11223344]

If they have chickens, I assume they eat eggs. So they are not Vegans.

As stated, I said lower animal protein diet. I had read it somewhere. My understanding was chickens were pets.

Also here...https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...rt-12-Mendocino-County-26-March-2018-2/page37, Catalia's post

 

[ZoriahNZ]

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2018/04/devonte_hart_family_crash_dece.html

This looks like a more recent picture of J, D and S and they look anything BUT filled out. They look malnourished. Look at the bony wrists, temples, jawlines, collarbones etc. That's #24 in the gallery, but check out #21 and #22 too. Compare them to earlier pics in the same gallery where they didn't at least have their skull/facial bones showing through their skin.

To clarify, it was Mrs Dekalb, the neighbor, who said in a video interview that Devonte himself claimed they were being starved to death. She even phrased it like a quote. So it's not reporter interpretation there, but an eye witness' account. The clip below is from KOIN 6 and the pertinent section is at around 2:15.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS6eGzCC4bk


Also I am not sure if we got this much detail previously on the attempt by Hannah to escape from her family. I don't recall reading what Jen specifically said to Hannah:

“They just barged in,” Dana said. “They started searching the house — my house,” before finding Hannah crouched between the bed and the dresser.


Jen told the DeKalbs she needed a moment with Hannah.


“Jen just crouched down and said, ‘You need to say you’re sorry.’ She (Hannah) said, ‘Yes, ma’am.’ ‘You need to tell them it’s been a rough week.’ ‘Yes, ma’am,’ ” recounted Dana DeKalb. “It was robotic.”


The next morning Hannah, accompanied by the rest of the family, brought over an apology note. Jen told the DeKalbs that Hannah was a “drug baby” and she had a bipolar mother, Dana said. They told the DeKalbs that Hannah was 12 — about four years younger than her true age — and said they had pulled the children from school after bullying.

Source: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...art-family-that-plunged-off-california-cliff/

 

[11223344]

"I am not standing up for mothers at all. I just think kids would have reached out sooner if they were actively starving."

I don't know that they would have done so. My siblings and I were hungry too and did our best to feed ourselves. There were 5 of us, brother age 11, brother age 8, myself age 7, sister age 4 and sister 18 months. One brother stole hotdogs from the 7 Eleven, we ate them raw. The cashier at the store turned a blind eye. I stole corn out of the field behind the house, we ate it raw. I stole apples off the neighbors tree while she yelled at me. My oldest brother tried to cook oatmeal once, and mistook salt for sugar, we ate it anyway.

I meant that they were volunteering by picking vegetables at a farm, had the neighbor they spoke with. In the newest pics they have more flesh. I think younger pics they came malnourished. I don't think the women took care of them as they needed, absolutely not, unless we find out about a lot of services they were receiving for their growth and other issues. And I'm sure they weren't given enough food. I guess it's on whatever level. I'm done discussing. I'm not sticking up for anyone. I just think these women were more intelligent then to actively starve kids to death.

 

[11223344]

How would they have reached out? I'm sorry but this sounds a bit too much like victim blaming to me, like, "if it was that bad, why didn't she just leave?" We all know it's often not that simple. These were kids. If they ran away, the police would more likely than not return them to their parents. Who would then do gods know only what to exact vengeance for their misbehavior. A six year old with a penny in her pocket, in their deranged thinking, had earned herself a beating against a hard tub and a cold waterboarding. Running away could get them beaten within a literal inch of their lives! Reaching out for help and getting the parents in trouble, too. It just isn't that easy.

They were volunteering on a farm, read back posts, guy said he had time alone with them. Other next door neighbor they had a relationship with. Friends and people that had been around them, if they were always actively starving them. That's why they got away with it. Because they weren't. I am not blaming the victims at all. Im saying I think the kids came malnourished and needed a lot of interventions and instead were not fed well and then were punished by restricting food. So, please be careful and read before assuming with what you are saying.

 

[11223344]

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2018/04/devonte_hart_family_crash_dece.html

This looks like a more recent picture of J, D and S and they look anything BUT filled out. They look malnourished. Look at the bony wrists, temples, jawlines, collarbones etc. That's #24 in the gallery, but check out #21 and #22 too. Compare them to earlier pics in the same gallery where they didn't at least have their skull/facial bones showing through their skin.

To clarify, it was Mrs Dekalb, the neighbor, who said in a video interview that Devonte himself claimed they were being starved to death. She even phrased it like a quote. So it's not reporter interpretation there, but an eye witness' account. The clip below is from KOIN 6 and the pertinent section is at around 2:15.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS6eGzCC4bk


Also I am not sure if we got this much detail previously on the attempt by Hannah to escape from her family. I don't recall reading what Jen specifically said to Hannah:



Source: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...art-family-that-plunged-off-california-cliff/

I don't see starved children in photos and as stated, faces of Markis and Jeremiah filled out, flesh on legs when they are standing up or sitting in other photos. They are very thin yes, they look like they need to gain weight. Over time I personally see a difference. Again, don't know what was happening and I'm sure they weren't getting enough. I'm done discussing.

 

[Cryptic]

Could be- but maybe he's a wimp and didn't want to get on wrong side of neighbors.

Or he mis understood the request for food. Evidently, he was asked for "cured meats".

There is a chance that he had no idea what the child meant by 'cured meats' and assumed he was asking for a luxury food item or a preferred, but not really needed food item. In short, had he been asked for cereal, canned food, or bread, he may of reacted differently.

 

[LonelyChild]

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2018/04/devonte_hart_family_crash_dece.html

This looks like a more recent picture of J, D and S and they look anything BUT filled out. They look malnourished. Look at the bony wrists, temples, jawlines, collarbones etc. That's #24 in the gallery, but check out #21 and #22 too. Compare them to earlier pics in the same gallery where they didn't at least have their skull/facial bones showing through their skin.

To clarify, it was Mrs Dekalb, the neighbor, who said in a video interview that Devonte himself claimed they were being starved to death. She even phrased it like a quote. So it's not reporter interpretation there, but an eye witness' account. The clip below is from KOIN 6 and the pertinent section is at around 2:15.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS6eGzCC4bk


Also I am not sure if we got this much detail previously on the attempt by Hannah to escape from her family. I don't recall reading what Jen specifically said to Hannah:



Source: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...art-family-that-plunged-off-california-cliff/

This is the most recent pics of all the kids

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[rosesfromangels]

I don't see starved children in photos and as stated, faces of Markis and Jeremiah filled out, flesh on legs when they are standing up or sitting in other photos. They are very thin yes, they look like they need to gain weight. Over time I personally see a difference. Again, don't know what was happening and I'm sure they weren't getting enough. I'm done discussing.

The children are lean, yes, and we know of them begging for food. I think what makes their leanness stand out even more is the very well nourished appearance of the mothers, one in particular. Whatever eating program they had the children on apparently didn’t apply to the mothers. At least their well nourished bodies reflect that.

 

[Holl]

I don't see starved children in photos and as stated, faces of Markis and Jeremiah filled out, flesh on legs when they are standing up or sitting in other photos. They are very thin yes, they look like they need to gain weight. Over time I personally see a difference. Again, don't know what was happening and I'm sure they weren't getting enough. I'm done discussing.

I, for one, agree with you and the things you stated. I am not victim blaming either. I do think J & S were cruel in some . But the kids could have been small sized due to no prenatal or pregnancy care, alcohol, genetics,drugs etc. A few maybe came with issues such as purging and throwing up ,,complicate d with immune disorders. Maybe by not giving food in punishment, they thought in their minds that would correct the bulimia / throwing up. Yes it looks like MH suffered this with his jaw protruding. I hope services were being addressed and used and will come up in investigation. Foster kids and adoption kids need tremendous amounts of therapy, especially if adopted after infancy and in older years. This is from experience with family.

 

[Lilibet]

Hello. First post here, I have read al the Hart threads but have not seen this article here https://medium.com/@DeepGreenPhilly...ite-gaze-the-hart-family-tragedy-bb02416bb0ad

It certainly was written in anger and whatever you may think of its point of view, what struck me is this:
[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.843137)]One of the most difficult aspects of the Hart family tragedy to comprehend is why these women chose to starve their children. Days before his disappearance, Devonte had gone to his next door neighbor begging for food. This begging continued for five days in a row, and he was asking for food not only for himself but for his siblings as well. Here are the estimated weights and heights of the three missing children who were not recovered from the crash site: Devonte Hart, 5'1, 90 lbs, 15 years old; Sierra Hart, 4'5, 60 lbs, 15 years old; Hannah Hart, 4'1, 45 lbs, 16 years old. These are nowhere near age appropriate stats for children of their age. They were being starved. They were literally withering away.[/COLOR]

I guess the estimates are by the author because I have seen no other, let alone official, source for the weight of the children. What would be your guesstimate for especially Hannah? 45 lbs can’t be right, that’s less than 22.5 kilo, impossible methinks. My healthy, tall, sporty daughters were around 60 kilo at age 16 (thinking they were too fat, as you do at that age).

However, imo, the Hart children certainly were under weight. Regarding Markis’ cheeks/jawline, it is the first thing I noticed about him and certainly I’ve never seen anything like it. My heart goes out to him, he seems so unloved, always at the edge, in the corner, almost out of the frame.

:welcome: Ditte! Very interesting. Yes they were very underweight. I noticed Markis’ jawline right away too and wondered about it.

The reason you hadn’t seen that article here before is that the rules here limit us to mainstream media (MSM) news articles and prohibit blogs and most social media (SM). Although MSM isn’t always accurate, sticking to that prevents spreading unverified information for the most part.

Here are some links so you can get familiar with how things work. It’s a learning curve at first. Glad you’re here.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?159-The-Rules

 

[CTPDMom]

PayrollNerd:

Always believe the kids. Feed them if they ask. Offer to send them home with a snack. Let them bathe/swim at your place. Give them outgrown clothes. Observe and offer guidance if the situation presents itself.

Amen to that, and glad you had guardian angels.

AND call police. Each and every time.


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[LonelyChild]

This from Jens facebook the story bwhind this image.

"Jen Hart
February 19 ·
*
I was hauling lumber to the garage and saw that these guys had a fire crackling in the back, so I popped over to warm up a bit.

Me: Hey, can I have a sip?

Bros: mischievous smirks at each other

J: You don't want to try this.

Me: ok?

D: It burns

Me: Oh. I'll wait until it cools then.

Bros: *guffaws*

J: Oh, it's plenty cool. *having a difficult time keeping a straight face* I didn't think you liked whiskey.

Me: [emoji58]

Bros: *rolling on the ground*

Me: If I didn't know better, I'd think you really were drunk.

Bros: *snort laughing*

Me: What's really in there?

D: Hot *still laughing* cocoa

J: Can't wait to do this again when mom gets home from work.

6 teenagers, y'all. 6 teenagers. I'm gonna make it. [emoji38]"

This is from just back in Febuary. It was alittle over a month before the accident happened. I cant help but wonder what happened in that month.

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