ACTIVE SEARCH CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 Mar 2018 #4

[Whiteorchids]

THANK YOU! A second doesn't go by that I don't wish that it had been me they ran too! No way in hell would a distraught child claiming abuse be returning back to the parent, especially given that my daughter is a pediatric nurse, and I would suffer the consequences of protecting the child/children. I would have made sure Hannah went to the hospital that much I know. Back in the 70's, battered neighbor wives with their kids would often flee to our house for refuge for some reason. We would hide them in the attic or laundry room if the abuser showed up. That is exactly what I would have done in this case too I don't understand why Mr. D gave up Hannah so easily... guess he didn't really want to deal with it.

They were probably worried about a lawsuit these days there are so many frivolous lawsuits. People sue for anything and everything it’s ridiculous it’s hard to even get LE involved this has caused so many not too get involved when normally they would. This is CA it may be different in other states.

 

[rosemadderlake]

bbm: Me neither, as long as it is an adult decision?

Kids need fat, natural sugar, (not junk) protein. And as you so well pointed out Jas, I'm not sure these kids were getting enough (of anything)...

Devonte's list of peanut butter and cured meat (sausage?) says to me the deficiencies.

Kids needs developmentally are in contrast to the vegan/vegetarian community which is based on a philosophy, and sadly, not on nutrition.

I went vegetarian for five years in my early 20's. (this was before vegan)

I went back to meat occasionally because I realized my body needed it. Not dissing anyone for veg or vegan lifestyle, but I do know I would never impose it on my child, for developmental, physical, and medical reasons.

Just, mooing, jmo....

Eta: bringing my own post forward...

You know while I think of it, because there was no fast food while I was growing up, meat was kind of pure. We got our meat from the butcher. We ate it raw, with a little salt. And it was delicious. A chicken was fresh, like from the local farm next door... She became an oven roaster, and then soup. Ham was more dubious... Everyone loves bacon, but its origins are so obscure that I avoid it entirely today. My one meat love is lamb. I know, I am horrible. But I only enjoy lamb on the rarest of occasions... I promise.

So, did these kids not know the wonders of the world? If it were my kids, I'd like them to decide for themselves...

 

[debbiegarcia36]

There’s lots of stuff the current drags on the ocean floor old metal things like anchors. I think that’s what took Laci Peterson’s body so long to wash ashore. I live in CA not too far from there and sadly some bodies that never surface and are found. Much easier on a calm lake.

Laci Peterson was weighted down. But as her body began to decompose it broke apart from what ever weighted her down (it might have been a cement anchor) and she and the baby surfaced. But it was many months after her death. Sorry for the horrible graphic description. Scott Petersen was another family annihilater.

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[debbiegarcia36]

Devonte asked the neighbors for "cured meats" so he obviously wasn't a vegan. But its hard to believe that he used that word for cold cuts or lunch meat. JMO

Maybe canned meats so he could hide these foods to fetch when needed.

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[rosemadderlake]

Devonte was asking for non perishable meats and protein to escape. He had a plan.
Imo..

 

[Whiteorchids]

https://www.statesmanjournal.com/st...ons-missed-signals-preceded-deaths/499212002/

One former friend at the festival said she saw a different side of the Hart family that weekend. The woman, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, recalled how she had spent a day with Devonte and Sierra.

Their parents grew enraged when the group returned with food the friend had bought for the two children. Sarah, the woman said, violently grabbed Sierra, severely bruising her.

"It left a mark around her wrist for days," the friend said, in a detailed email exchange with The Oregonian/OregonLive. "Red turned to blue and yellow. She was in trouble for not sharing with everyone and [she was] called selfish."

The woman said Sierra later told her she would likely be grounded and she often got in trouble for speaking with people her parents didn't know well. As someone who experienced an abusive upbringing, the friend said she recognized Sierra's fear.

"They seemed completely incapable of dealing with normal childlike behavior," said the woman, who later moved from the Pacific Northwest

 

[longlonglake]

We also know what Jen did and said were different correct ? Who doesn't let kids eat sugar, afraid of GMo, processed food but ok with "cured meats!" I would think it was whatever serviced and was easiest for them as well as at one point, cheapest according to article. Really?

Maybe "cured meats" was a term that the neighbor or the Washington Post used. Maybe Devonte asked for beef jerky or slim jims, etc. which would not need refrigeration. Other kinds of cured meats still require refrigeration long term.

 

[human]

Early on there were reports that there were no electronics for the children. That was before we knew the parents lied about things. It is possible as in the search by LE, they only turned up and iPad and a laptop.

That would not be enough to,provide any online education,

With the isolation they experienced, I wonder if they knew how to use a computer. I doubt if the mothers shared the passwords.

So I wonder how much interaction the kids had on their own with anyone. It sounds like there may have been some.

Let us no forget that people like Jaycee Dugard had lots of interaction and she did not ask for help. So, the kids could be trusted somewhat to be on their own for brief periods of time.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Laci Peterson was weighted down. But as her body began to decompose it broke apart from what ever weighted her down (it might have been a cement anchor) and she and the baby surfaced. But it was many months after her death. Sorry for the horrible graphic description. Scott Petersen was another family annihilater.

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I was just watching a show on it the other night, and they found her body after a storm. It was assumed in the show that the storm dislodge the body and help its surface for both of them.

 

[kizzykat]

Not to sway away from the food discussion but I don't recall seeing this posted. Apologies if it has been covered. I followed a link in one of the news articles to this page. Apparently the Hart children participated in these songs. There is even one called "Hart" where they can be heard chanting "Hart tribe". If you click on the small pic on the left side you'll get a larger picture and a caption that goes with the song.

https://soundcloud.com/youthmusicempowerment

As they settled into their new environment, the family regularly attended concerts, events and festivals in the Portland area and throughout the Northwest. Their children wrote and recorded songs with music artists.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...ce.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

[KaaBoom]

Just bringing this over since the thread closed:

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/mystery-surrounds-hart-family-that-plunged-off-california-cliff/


What the heck is that building/trailer in the top left corner of the property? Very removed from the house. My first awful thought was that it could be a place of punishment or isolation if one of the kids stepped out of line. Garden or potting shed? Looks like a caravan, though.

It's a storage shed for gardening equipment, lawn mower, etc. Actually two of them next to each other. They are very common.

 

[11223344]

In this context, my mind went to jerky bc it definitely doesn't need refrigeration.

Maybe, somehow in the limited interactions with that neighbor, the kids said they aren't eating sugar? Also, I study diets and nutrition and many, many people cut out white sugar but still allow fruit, dates, honey, maple syrup, etc. they just avoid white sugar. Then other don't allow any sweeteners but do allow fruit and then others who don't do any sugar but what is naturally in vegetables.

Just my speculation and moo.

https://www.newsday.com/news/nation/devonte-hart-family-crash-cliff-1.17737261



I wonder who reported that information to him.

See, I hate that so much of this information is from random comments, like we don't KNOW they didn't have sugar, we know the neighbor reported that, but how did he know? Did the ever-so-trustworthy adults say that? Did the kids? Who?

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...art-family-that-plunged-off-california-cliff/

"Groener did not remember seeing police visit, nor did he suspect mistreatment.

For all the time they spent inside, he also saw the family pack for camping. They mentioned that the kids were not allowed sugar. The couple brought home vegetables from a farm.

In fact, they were regulars at a food pantry and farm about 40 minutes south of Portland in Sherwood, Oregon, where they could pick up organic produce and save money.

“They were really focused on paying off debt to buy a home,” said Tyler Boggs, president of the Good Neighbor Family Pantry, which provides imperfect fruits and vegetables from supermarkets at no cost.

Soon, the Harts began to volunteer at the farm, said Boggs’ wife, Elizabeth Boggs, who operates Heart 2 Heart farms. The kids would help for a while, then play with the Boggses’ animals or read in the sun.

“Devonte was probably the most outspoken and social. Sierra and Hannah and Abigail were quiet. They would read a lot when they were here. They all loved the animals,” Tyler said.

The children talked with passion about social justice and the outdoors.

“They were focused on the world being a better place, and I think that comes from being raised by people where the emphasis is love and treating the planet carefully,” he said. “They certainly were not stereotypical teenagers.”

Tyler spent time with the children at the farm — away from their parents — feeding goats or cows. He said he never saw indications that the children were being abused or deprived of food. If they were, they “had opportunities in abundance to reach out,” Tyler said.

 

[StephanieH]

Can you imagine the horror of the birth families? They were obviously unable to care for the children, but I am guessing the kids were loved and the family believed they could have a better life with the Harts. Then to learn they were abused, starved and finally murdered. If they had been my grandchildren, I would probably never forgive myself for not taking them in.

 

[SATA]

kizzykat. thanks. good find!
It actually sounds pretty good.

I took a screenshot of one of the photos on the soundcloud site.

Isn´t that Jeremiah?

Look at his jaw. It is like Markis´ jaw, and that is strange.
They are not biologically related.

Can´t help thinking about that tooth of Hanna´s.

Were they messing with their teeth? Or something else??

Markis´ jaw is not that distinct in all photos - and then I looked at the other children also in different photos.
Sometimes their jaws are pronounced and sometimes not.

Maybe just me!

 

[enelram]

My first thought when I saw Markis's pic w/ swollen neck glands was 'Abcessed Tooth'. It's not uncommon for the

closest glands to become infected also if the abcess isn't treated. Sometimes the whole side of the face swells up

and sometimes just the tooth area and the gland on that side of neck. speaking from experience, unfortunately.

 

[Tssiemer]

I think he was just too skinny.


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[kizzykat]

kizzykat. thanks. good find!
It actually sounds pretty good.

I took a screenshot of one of the photos on the soundcloud site.

Isn´t that Jeremiah?

Look at his jaw. It is like Markis´ jaw, and that is strange.
They are not biologically related.

Can´t help thinking about that tooth of Hanna´s.

Were they messing with their teeth? Or something else??

Markis´ jaw is not that distinct in all photos - and then I looked at the other children also in different photos.
Sometimes their jaws are pronounced and sometimes not.

Maybe just me!

I just googled some pics, in several his cheeks/jaw are softer, not puffed out like that at the jaw line. Man I hope they weren't pulling wisdom teeth at home to save a buck or something? I hate typing that... MOO

 

[PayrollNerd]

The last paragraph is profoundly sad, copied below for convenience. It sure makes me wonder about my own childhood and how we ended up with the CPS people, Truant Officer, etc. in our lives. When you're young you don't recognize the lifestyle you live is not normal. It's only in retrospect that it all sinks in. Always believe the kids. Feed them if they ask. Offer to send them home with a snack. Let them bathe/swim at your place. Give them outgrown clothes. Observe and offer guidance if the situation presents itself. There were guardian angels in my childhood. I'm certain that is why I survived.

https://slate.com/human-interest/20...-disparity-in-child-abuse-investigations.html

The criminalization of poor black and brown mothers’ parenting practices is a well-documented phenomenon dubbed “Jane Crow.” According to the Los Angeles Times, black children enter the foster care system at a rate five times higher than their white counterparts “and linger there, without being returned to their parents or being adopted, two months longer than white children.” All six of the Hart children were adopted out of Texas foster care; because Texas adoption records are closed, it’s unknown why they were removed from their birth families in the first place. One can only hope it was for something at least as bad as domestic assault. Details from the Hart family case will continue to emerge as the investigation progresses, but there is one thing that seems crystal clear at this point: Time and time again, these children reached out for help to the institutions and adults that were supposed to protect them. And each time, they were failed.

 

[emma.laurens]

kizzykat. thanks. good find!
It actually sounds pretty good.

I took a screenshot of one of the photos on the soundcloud site.

Isn´t that Jeremiah?

Look at his jaw. It is like Markis´ jaw, and that is strange.
They are not biologically related.

Can´t help thinking about that tooth of Hanna´s.

Were they messing with their teeth? Or something else??

Markis´ jaw is not that distinct in all photos - and then I looked at the other children also in different photos.
Sometimes their jaws are pronounced and sometimes not.

Maybe just me!

Parotid gland swelling. Most common cause in kids is bacterial infection (i.e. abscessed tooth). That's usually only on one side, though, not symmetrical. Most common cause for symmetrical parotid gland swelling in kids is malnutrition/starvation.

 

[Whiteorchids]

I just googled some pics, in several his cheeks/jaw are softer, not puffed out like that at the jaw line. Man I hope they weren't pulling wisdom teeth at home to save a buck or something? I hate typing that... MOO

On the FB group i joined, there were lots of photos of Markis where his jaw stuck out like ping pong balls. I’ve never seen that before it must be some kind of medical condition.

I’m sorry I can’t post the link to the FB group unless moderator say its ok. I think it’s against TOS.