ACTIVE SEARCH CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 Mar 2018 #4

[Talulah]

Only if it's illegal, sadly. Maybe we should focus on ideas about laws to prevent people convicted of child abuse from homeschooling their children, along with a national child abuse registry.

I was originally mainly thinking of databases of known children to search if children went off the grid. I see your point though.

And before anyone says anything about the Turpins, I'm sure it wouldn't have helped their situation. However I don't think it's a radical idea that once you've been convicted of harming a child, you should not be able to remove them from the main place that can observe and report abuse or deteriorating conditions.

 

[bears10]

Only if it's illegal, sadly. Maybe we should focus on ideas about laws to prevent people convicted of child abuse from homeschooling their children, along with a national child abuse registry.

I was originally mainly thinking of databases of known children to search if children went off the grid. I see your point though.

I totally agree with your post and have a lot of thoughts about homeschooling restrictions, however, I have learned WS isn’t the best place for me to share said thoughts.

I think it’d be great to have a database to monitor what kids suddenly fall off the map. I just don’t have a plan of action or solution, so I’m not very helpful in that matter.

 

[bluesneakers]

Man called 911 concerned about child abuse in Hart family, but Clark County Sheriff’s Office decided against welfare check

“The other night, a little girl jumped out of the second-story window on the roof and then down onto the ground and ran to my daughter — and this was like two in the morning — begging them to help her,” the caller, Steve Frkovich, 80, told the Clark County dispatcher in the Nov. 18 call. He told the dispatcher there were kids who he felt were “being highly abused.”

The dispatcher relayed the call to the Clark County Sheriff’s Office. But after contacting Frkovich’s daughter, Dana DeKalb, who told them the incident had actually occurred in August and there had been no repeat occurrences, the Sheriff’s Office decided against performing a welfare check on the home of Sarah and Jennifer Hart and their six adopted children, according to the dispatch logs and audio obtained through a public-records request.

 

[Sleuth99]

I feel like that’s a simplistic view of things. No offense meant.

Who is going to flag such situations? The Hart’s didn’t register their kids in school when they moved to the west coast. The IRS isn’t looking for kids who aren’t registered in school. They are looking for people who owe money due to inaccurate returns or no returns at all. I typed and deleted a lot, but my professional and personal experiences with the IRS.... they aren’t CPS and they aren’t paid to connect the dots about who’s in school and who’s not. JMO

I don't know... the IRS slid into the FAFSA application real quick...


IMO

 

[maggieo]

Here's a super-cynical, possibly way off-base theory about why the women adopted the second set of kids: the first set were light-skinned and looked biracial, and so could probably pass as one of the women's biological children. If they were out in public together, no one would know how heroic they were! And if just one mom took the kids out, they'd look like a regular, possibly single-parent family--nothing special about them at all.

But the darker-skinned kids were clearly adopted, and so the image of the family went from medium-sized and "ho-hum" to huge and AMAZING!

And of course they couldn't live up to that image. They didn't have a motherly bone in them. Honestly, no one should be allowed to adopt that many kids without proving that they have super, way-above-average parenting skills and a record of success. I think of myself as a good mom--but I have two easy kids who've had easy lives. I would STINK at parenting if I had to raise six kids with traumas in their pasts (though of course I can't imagining hurting them, let alone murdering them). Point is, I have average parenting skills and should NOT be given six needy kids--it wouldn't be in the kids' interest at all. I do think the Texas DFPS should review its policies in light of this tragedy.

 

[emma.laurens]

The Hart family were photographed for this story on the 2015 Goonies festival in Astoria, Washington. The kids appear in photos 3, 6, and 7. Jen is quoted as saying she spent six months designing the kids' custom costumes. I suspect that's an exaggeration for all of them. But most of them are still pretty cute. The costume Hannah is wearing- compared to the others- raises serious red flags for me.

http://www.dailyastorian.com/Local_News/20150608/goonies-fans-had-weekend-of-nostalgia-in-astoria

 

[Talulah]

The Hart family were photographed for this story on the 2015 Goonies festival in Astoria, Washington. The kids appear in photos 3, 6, and 7. Jen is quoted as saying she spent six months designing the kids' custom costumes. I suspect that's an exaggeration for all of them. But most of them are still pretty cute. The costume Hannah is wearing, though, raises serious red flags for me.

http://www.dailyastorian.com/Local_News/20150608/goonies-fans-had-weekend-of-nostalgia-in-astoria

I saw people elsewhere saying they were dressed as characters from a movie, but yeah...I'm not a fan. It seems cruel.

 

[mraccountant]

They need to do a thorough geographical profile , factor in age and possible injuries and focus on those areas , children will tend to stray from areas that are remote due to their unfamiliarity with the route , however due to their possible injuries they may be disoriented which could draw them into an even more life threatening scenario

I know this is a place to investigate but today I’ll use my thread for prayer

I pray for their safe return
May those stars above keep them safe from any further harm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KaaBoom]

Only if it's illegal, sadly. Maybe we should focus on ideas about laws to prevent people convicted of child abuse from homeschooling their children, along with a national child abuse registry.

I was originally mainly thinking of databases of known children to search if children went off the grid. I see your point though.

I agree, but unfortunately I'm not sure that would help. As the Turpin case proved, abuse of homeschool children can go on undetected almost indefinitely. If the abuse is not detected, the parents would not be in the child abuse registry.

The only way I can think of preventing this type of thing, is if we have universal free healthcare for all Americans, and make medical checkups mandatory, especially for children. A new born baby should be given an automatic appointment for a checkup in one week and then at 1, 2, 4, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18 and 24 months, and then every year thereafter. If they miss their checkup or any abuse is detected, the doctors should be required to report it to CPS. Parents should have a right to raise their children as they see fit, but depriving their children of healthcare or nutrition, should not be their right, IMHO.

 

[katydid23]

Maybe the child abusers could fund such a database. Not to be a pessimist, but I feel like it would take a lot more than a database in many situations. In this particular case, I wish there was a system in place to flag parents convicted of abuse who then pull their children out of school.... and then move to another state where they don’t register their kids for homeschooling at all! It just seems like there are so many cracks for victims to fall through. I don’t have a solution by any means, but clearly there are holes that we need to fill so kids aren’t slipping through.

I can’t help but wonder how many victims are out there... look at the Turpins, how long it took to uncover that horror. The Hart’s... the moms were all up in there in terms of social media, exploiting their kids for attention (imo). It’s sad to think about how many victims may exist that we have no idea about.

And the Turpins not only registered their kids as homeschooled, they even registered their home as a school, making the abusive father the principal. How could that 'school' totally escape any scrutiny?

Did the state just ignore that paperwork?

 

[emma.laurens]

I saw people elsewhere saying they were dressed as characters from a movie, but yeah...I'm not a fan. It seems cruel.

Yeah, they were dressed as characters from the Goonies. But there's a lot of characters in that movie. I can't rule out that Hannah may have wanted to dress up as Sloth. But it seems an odd choice for a 13-year-old girl.

 

[Talulah]

I just spent some time *ahem* stalking the blog of a large fundamentalist quiverful family that I follow (not the Duggars) and noticed with sadness, reflecting on the Hart children, how healthy and robust all of their kids look. Their 18 year looks like a man and is taller than the father. Their teenagers looks like strong well-built teens, and their 10 year girl is obviously on the cusp of puberty and looks to be about 5 feet tall - maybe taller. The smaller kids are thin but have cute little pudgy flesh on their arms and legs. I am not at all certain that they have a happy life, but they certainly get enough to eat. 10 children, one income from preaching at a tiny church, no government help, and yet they can manage to feed them all well, but the Harts had 6 impossibly tiny bony children and probably 3 times the income. How freaking sad is that?

*not that it's about income, but the disparity between the kids in each family really struck me.

 

[whoopiecushions]

6. No ring worn, I noticed Sarah was not wearing a ring in more recent pictures but clearly was in many older pictures - yellow circle: whoa looks like ligature marks on the wrist
7. Area on chest clearly edited - can tell from hair strands "disappearing" , I also get this feeling zooming in on SH eyes and redness in nose she was crying just prior to this photo, could be wrong

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I absolutely believe that Sarah and Jen are evil child abusers who murdered Markis, Hannah, Jeremiah, Devonte, Abigail, and Sierra. BUT I also think you're really stretching. I think this is a perfect example of confirmation bias. When we believe something, we tend to look for things that confirm our beliefs. If this was any other random family, you probably wouldn't think anything of these photos. So what if she used photoshop? Photographers, both professional and casual hobbyists use it all the time. I would know because I'm a hobbyist photographer as well. I often use it to get rid of zits and blemishes and stuff and I can assure you, I'm not abusing anyone or being abused. Yeah, they're obviously abusers, but evil abusers can have harmless hobbies too.

The ring picture could be easily explained. Most amusement parks actually recommend that you remove jewelry as well as valuables from your pockets. Or she could've removed to ring to take a shower and forgotten to put it back on. I do that all the time.

I don't know exactly what the hair picture is supposed to mean. What do you mean the hair disappeared? It looks bent, like maybe she just had it up in a bun and then took it down. My hair looks like that after it's been pulled up in a bun. The hair band pinches my hair and causes it to curl into weird positions, just like Sarah's hair in that photo.

The mark on Abigail's wrist DEFINITELY looks suspicious though. That's the only observation I agree with.

Again, I definitely believe that the children were abused and murdered, but I don't think it does any good to nitpick at inconsequential details. It doesn't help the cause. There are definitely some disturbing pictures of them floating around on the internet but the stuff you pointed out could easily be innocent and normal. I am, however, appalled that they had Devonte pose with a "Thank you" sign in photo#1. It's so insulting and plays into the narcissistic "Grateful Adoptee" and "White Savior" narratives. But, the photoshopping itself doesn't bother me. As I said, many people including myself, do that all the time.

 

[Talulah]

I absolutely believe that Sarah and Jen are evil child abusers who murdered Markis, Hannah, Jeremiah, Devonte, Abigail, and Sierra. BUT I also think you're really stretching. I think this is a perfect example of confirmation bias. When we believe something, we tend to look for things that confirm our beliefs. If this was any other random family, you probably wouldn't think anything of these photos. So what if she used photoshop? Photographers, both professional and casual hobbyists use it all the time. I would know because I'm a hobbyist photographer as well. I often use it to get rid of zits and blemishes and stuff and I can assure you, I'm not abusing anyone or being abused. Yeah, they're obviously abusers, but evil abusers can have harmless hobbies too.

The ring picture could be easily explained. Most amusement parks actually recommend that you remove jewelry as well as valuables from your pockets. Or she could've removed to ring to take a shower and forgotten to put it back on. I do that all the time.

I don't know exactly what the hair picture is supposed to mean. What do you mean the hair disappeared? It looks bent, like maybe she just had it up in a bun and then took it down. My hair looks like that after it's been pulled up in a bun. The hair band pinches my hair and causes it to curl into weird positions, just like Sarah's hair in that photo.

The mark on Abigail's wrist DEFINITELY looks suspicious though. That's the only observation I agree with.

Again, I definitely believe that the children were abused and murdered, but I don't think it does any good to nitpick at inconsequential details. It doesn't help the cause. There are definitely some disturbing pictures of them floating around on the internet but the stuff you pointed out could easily be innocent and normal. I am, however, appalled that they had Devonte pose with a "Thank you" sign in photo#1. It's so insulting and plays into the narcissistic "Grateful Adoptee" and "White Savior" narratives. But, the photoshopping itself doesn't bother me. As I said, many people including myself, do that all the time.

My thought, honestly, with the picture of Sarah (if it's edited) is that Jen edited out age related changes in her cleavage.

 

[whoopiecushions]

That is a lot of mandatory check ups. Are we going to seriously legislate that every family has to take their child to a doctor for a checkup every 3 months or CPS will open a case on them?

Isn't that a bit much? How is the medical system going to deal with that many 'well baby' checkups forced on them? As it is, it can take months just to get a check up appointment set.

And if pediatricians had to ,by law, see their patients every 3 months, then I think those check ups would be pretty quick and short. I doubt they would pick up every abuse case that came their way.

And how is the overburdened CPS going to keep up with every case of 'child misses well doctor checkup?' That seems like it would be low on their priority totem pole.

Not every parent can take the time off to visit their doctor every 3 months. Or make the transportation plans, to make it work.

If there are accusations of prior abuse, then something like this might be needed. But for everyone, to be legally mandated to have their child 'inspected' by a doctor, or face CPS investigation, seems overkill. imo.



ETA: Oh, and are you also saying that ALL people need mandatory checkups every 3 months, not just children?

"The only way I can think of preventing this type of thing, is if we have universal free healthcare for all Americans, and make medical checkups mandatory, especially for children"


So ALL Americans should have MANDATORY checkups or be reported to the government?

That's actually the standard/recommended well check schedule for kids though. It's recommended by the American Academy of Pediatrics. https://www.healthychildren.org/Eng...s/Well-Child-Care-A-Check-Up-for-Success.aspx

I went through every one of those checkups with my toddler and I believe most of my middle class friends did as well. I realize that some people might not have the resources or health insurance to do all these checkups but I believe that most of the people who can, do follow this schedule. Granted I wasn't legally required to go to these checkups. I agree that realistically, it would require a LOT of manpower and CPS workers to go after every parent who misses these appointments and check in with all those doctors, but this isn't some off the wall schedule she's proposing. In fact, it's actually more lenient than the recommended schedule. She forgot to add the 30 month checkup lol.

 

[whoopiecushions]

Lol that's possible. Vain, but not a sign of abuse. I'm embarrassed to admit that I used photoshop to give myself more hair during my postpartum hair loss period. :shame:

 

[Lilibet]

:welcome: whoopiecushions! Your name cracks me up.

 

[MistyM]

if anyone has the chance to check out the youtube video "sarah's 37th birthday adventure", pay close attention to markis, the oldest boy and hannah, the girl with the missing two front teeth.

 

[katydid23]

That's actually the standard/recommended well check schedule for kids though. It's recommended by the American Academy of Pediatrics. https://www.healthychildren.org/Eng...s/Well-Child-Care-A-Check-Up-for-Success.aspx

I went through every one of those checkups with my toddler and I believe most of my middle class friends did as well. I realize that some people might not have the resources or health insurance to do all these checkups but I believe that most of the people who can, do follow this schedule. Granted I wasn't legally required to go to these checkups. I agree that realistically, it would require a LOT of manpower and CPS workers to go after every parent who misses these appointments and check in with all those doctors, but this isn't some off the wall schedule she's proposing. In fact, it's actually more lenient than the recommended schedule. She forgot to add the 30 month checkup lol.

I don't believe that a parent should be reported to the government for missing a 'well baby' check up. I think it is intrusive and unnecessary.


My kids had the same pediatrician, and there were a few times where I took one child in for a set appointment, had the other with me, and our doctor would take a quick look at the other child if I had a question.

I took my kids to every toddler check up, for the most part, but I may have missed one or two as they got older, OR as they would have been quickly checked out when at the office with the other one.

I don't like legislating something like this, forcing a parent to bring a healthy child into the doctor, under threat of a CPS investigation. It seems heavy handed and unnecessary.

But maybe that is the libertarian in me rebelling...

 

[whoopiecushions]

I wonder why they ran to the DeKalbs rather than the other neighbor. The other neighbor seemed somewhat acquainted with him whereas the DeKalbs were like, "Huh who are you?" when Hannah first showed up. Maybe the other neighbor was friendly with the mothers and they were worried that he would side with the moms if they confided in him so they decided to reach out to the DeKalbs instead. Maybe they figured the DeKalbs would be more neutral and less likely to side with the moms. So tragic that the DeKalbs failed them. I hope they never ever sleep peacefully again.