ACTIVE SEARCH CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 Mar 2018 #4

[bluesneakers]

And just something else to ponder, I live on the west side of Washington. I used to live across the river from Portland. These women, IMO, moved to be in more of a liberal area which supported how they raised their children and did not judge their family unit. Their latest move (from OR to WA) was only around 45 min distance. Though across state lines, not a huge jump if they were trying to truly disappear.


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So they got to stay near where they wanted to live, but were able to isolate a bit more and cross state lines at the same time. Clever.

 

[DatelineFan]

Goodnight, all.

Let's keep our focus. I hope those sweet ones RE found soon [emoji173]️

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[Sillybilly]

All members have an opinion. It may or may not be the same as yours. If you disagree with an opinion, state your case respectfully and move on. Do NOT resort to bickering or badgering other members to accept your opinion. The thread is for respectful discussion of the case itself, not whether someone agrees with your view.

Scroll and roll, or if you just can't bear to read another member's opinion, use the Ignore feature so you will not see their posts.

 

[Smoneywcbs]

So they got to stay near where they wanted to live, but were able to isolate a bit more and cross state lines at the same time. Clever.

Or because real estate and land are cheaper in Washington than Oregon.... and they wanted to stay in the general area. That’s why we chose to buy in Washington instead of Oregon.


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[emma.laurens]

Unfortunately, as many (many, many) posters have already observed, this is not an either/or situation. Jen and Sarah may truly have had noble intentions. Not just when they decided to adopt, but up until the end. They may (emphasis on may) themselves have come from an unstable background, or a place of intense personal insecurity, and wanted sincerely to help as many children as possible escape the same situation. Part of this tragedy may very well be that they found themselves enacting the same behaviors they had imagined saving these kids from, and not having the emotional or cognitive resources to reverse course. They would not be the first parents in history, adoptive or biological, to approach parenthood from a place of both profound love and profound emotional scars.

Learning to recognize red flags that may otherwise be overlooked is not about demonizing parents/caregivers. It's about keeping children visible and safe, and (just maybe) ending the cycle.

 

[human]

I know I am not alone in this as Facebook is called Fakebook. I have several people on my Facebook that make up stuff.

Some have abusive parents and they talk about how great they are.

One is overweight and looks nothing like the pictures she posts. I wonder how she does it. And she has her fake experiences.

A few more, but I will skip the details.

Why do they make up these fake lives? Maybe Sarah and Jen could have had a fun life with the three but they decided to have three more and to abuse one for sure right away. Why did they do it? Why did they make a fake life? Did they believe their own lies?

They were the Tribe, but when the Tribe got a lot of attention with Devonte, they hightailed it out of there.

The pictures of Devonte crying before hugging the cop and the movie of Jeremiah with the worm indicate control issues.

Did Jen never work?

 

[KaaBoom]

Unfortunately, as many (many, many) posters have already observed, this is not an either/or situation. Jen and Sarah may truly have had noble intentions. Not just when they decided to adopt, but up until the end. They may (emphasis on may) themselves have come from an unstable background, or a place of intense personal insecurity, and wanted sincerely to help as many children as possible escape the same situation. Part of this tragedy may very well be that they found themselves repeating the exact same behaviors they had imagined themselves saving these kids from, and not having the emotional resources to turn their own behaviors around. They would not be the first parents in history, adoptive or biological, to approach parenthood from a place of both profound love and profound emotional scars.

The Mendocino law enforcement has been inconsistent, it's probably fair, too, to hold off on conclusive statements of the parents' motives in the accident until an investigative report is issued. But I also think it's also fair to say that wholly fabricated abuse allegations don't tend to be consistent, or follow a family across time and state lines, especially coming from multiple unrelated people. There's too much smoke here for there to have been no fire.

I find that extremely hard to believe. How can some one with noble intentions commit long term child abuse and finally murder?

As for the Mendocino law enforcement. An investigative report was issued on or before March 31, and submitted to the court. The report concluded that this was no accident, and that a felony had been committed. We are well past that part now.

Court documents state California Highway Patrol investigators found no “acceleration marks, tire friction marks or braking furrow marks” at the scene.

Investigators said there was no evidence the car collided with the embankment as it “traversed towards the tidal zone below.”

“Based upon the California Highway Patrol investigation, it is their belief ‘a felony has been committed,’” according to court documents.

Court docs_ Speedometer in Woodland family’s car ‘pinned’ at 90 - KPTV - FOX 12

 

[human]

It is intereting that nothing has come out as to where they were for the missing hours.

 

[Smoneywcbs]

What I’m interested in knowing is what type of gaming guild they were involved in. Gaming is addictive like drugs, etc. That, alone, could’ve led to neglect and abuse of their children.


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[HeidiTX232]

I guess I don't get that either. I'm really struggling with that aspect, of scrutinizing every image and reading into it.

The scary thing, to me, is that the pictures and anecdotes could ALL be perfectly innocent and "real", and yet the parents also be abusive. Both truths could exist simultaneously. Child abuse and the relationship between abuser and abusee are complicated. The picture of the kids with the waffles, for example. Some people are commenting and saying, "I bet they didn't even get to eat those waffles!" The thing is, they probably DID eat those waffles. And they probably enjoyed them. And those smiles in the pictures? They could very well be real. And they probably really loved their mothers. But they were probably still afraid of them and were most likely abused. It doesn't have to be an either/or situation. Abuse is complicated, which is why it's often so hard for people to leave. It is possible to have "good" times with your abuser, and that just makes the situation even scarier. If things were bad 24/7 then it would be easy to hate them, but abusers can flip the switch and be loving and caring, too. My mother was abusive; I grew up in a home with a narcissist with borderline personality disorder. I was terrified of her. Almost 40 years later and I am still working through that trauma. But gosh, as traumatic as my childhood was and as awful of a mother she could be, she could also be the most wonderful mother in the world and I all but worshipped her because when she was "good", she was wonderful. If you were to look at my family pictures, you'd see a smiling little girl doing all kinds of fun things. The smiles weren't faked, either. She didn't force me to grin-I smiled because, at that moment, I was genuinely enjoying myself and because I loved her. And then, 20 minutes after the photo was taken, she might hit me or ridicule me or any number of the other things that she enjoyed doing.

These poor children had terrible deaths. They most likely had some terrible things happen to them, both before and after they were adopted. I sincerely hope that they did have true moments of joy in their short lives.

I so agree with your post. As I’ve mentioned, I’m “in the trenches” with kids “from hard places.” There are some very real struggles years after adoption. But even though that is the case, we also have some really great times also! The very big negative feelings and behaviors don’t negate the great aspects of our lives.

In most pictures, I see genuinely happy children even when the pics are obviously staged. Many of those pics look like they’d be fun to do together as a family, much like my family enjoys playing games. That isn’t to say that Jen didn’t turn and get nasty with them 20 minutes later. But it’s fine (and right in my opinion) to believe they had some really neat times being creative, going camping, working at that farm, going to rallies, etc.

And I’ve said before that I absolutely believe the kids had ongoing issues from their pasts. That doesn’t negate that the mom(s) had issues in the present! I believe that too!

Anyway, it simply isn’t either-or. All families have good and bad. This one had a lot of bad which is terribly sad. They probably had some really good also. I don’t want to take the really good away from those kids. Sure wish the really bad didn’t happen though :-(

 

[CassieM]

https://www.statesmanjournal.com/st...ons-missed-signals-preceded-deaths/499212002/

One former friend at the festival said she saw a different side of the Hart family that weekend. The woman, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, recalled how she had spent a day with Devonte and Sierra.

Their parents grew enraged when the group returned with food the friend had bought for the two children. Sarah, the woman said, violently grabbed Sierra, severely bruising her.

"It left a mark around her wrist for days," the friend said, in a detailed email exchange with The Oregonian/OregonLive. "Red turned to blue and yellow. She was in trouble for not sharing with everyone and [she was] called selfish."

The woman said Sierra later told her she would likely be grounded and she often got in trouble for speaking with people her parents didn't know well. As someone who experienced an abusive upbringing, the friend said she recognized Sierra's fear.

"They seemed completely incapable of dealing with normal childlike behavior," said the woman, who later moved from the Pacific Northwest

I have always assumed it was Jen, but this quote made me think that maybe it really was Sarah who was responsible for the earlier abuse (for which she was charged) after all. Also, I think I remember earlier it was shared that a friend said Sarah complained about the children and how difficult it was for her.

 

[human]

I so agree with your post. As I’ve mentioned, I’m “in the trenches” with kids “from hard places.” There are some very real struggles years after adoption. But even though that is the case, we also have some really great times also! The very big negative feelings and behaviors don’t negate the great aspects of our lives.

In most pictures, I see genuinely happy children even when the pics are obviously staged. Many of those pics look like they’d be fun to do together as a family, much like my family enjoys playing games. That isn’t to say that Jen didn’t turn and get nasty with them 20 minutes later. But it’s fine (and right in my opinion) to believe they had some really neat times being creative, going camping, working at that farm, going to rallies, etc.

And I’ve said before that I absolutely believe the kids had ongoing issues from their pasts. That doesn’t negate that the mom(s) had issues in the present! I believe that too!

Anyway, it simply isn’t either-or. All families have good and bad. This one had a lot of bad which is terribly sad. They probably had some really good also. I don’t want to take the really good away from those kids. Sure wish the really bad didn’t happen though :-(

Can there ever be good? They would be walkimg on egghells wondering when the next tirade would happen

 

[Novalee]

I am sorry if this article has already been posted but I found it very well written and as far as I am aware of they did their research.

https://www.statesmanjournal.com/st...ons-missed-signals-preceded-deaths/499212002/

 

[Aescwynn]

What I’m interested in knowing is what type of gaming guild they were involved in. Gaming is addictive like drugs, etc. That, alone, could’ve led to neglect and abuse of their children.

It was alleged to be for this game:
http://www.starwarsforcearena.com/en

However, as I recall, no one ever produced any proof that the linked guild was actually Jennifer Hart's. It was just "I was told that this guild was hers". Since gaming guilds are anonymous by nature, unless someone in the guild had her personal, real-life information such as an email address, cell phone number etc., and has come forward to tell law enforcement and/or the MSM-- I don't think it can be taken as a fact that she was a gamer.

 

[SATA]

I was wondering about that picture of Abigail with the greenhouse. Jen must have made her open the cover in such a way as to throw snow all over herself to stage the picture. It struck me as a bit odd, not to mention cold. On the other hand, I don't think those flowers wouldn't survive in that greenhouse if it was all that cold.

Some snow has been plonked on her hair for effect and she is not wearing enough clothes.
She looks as if she is freezing and is very pale.
Stiff smile their trade mark.

 

[HeidiTX232]

Can there ever be good? They would be walkimg on egghells wondering when the next tirade would happen

Many people who were abused in childhood attest to there being good times. That is my experience also. And as a fostermom, I have seen this with the kids who've come through my home. I've met every biological parent that was still in the picture for these kids. Despite what they have done, their children love them and find the good in them. I also have been able to see good in them and empathize with their situation (though the kids come first and I'm a fierce mama bear too!). I even had a young lady who was mistreated by her previous fostermom for two years before coming here. That girl worshiped that woman. Though I was appalled by what happened, there must have also been some good in that family.

That is my experience from the other side also. Yes, I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop. Yes, I have to be extra hypervigilant. Yes, we have safety measures in place that most people cannot even begin to fathom. But that is just one side of the coin! We also have tons of laughter and giggling. We have meaningful conversations. We read together, play together, and have a great time. The good doesn't disappear because there is also the hard stuff.

I believe every coin has two sides. The Harts' likely did also. Now, it may have been that their one side was particularly ugly and tarnished. And the other side may have been polished to an extreme. But both sides likely did exist.

And really? That is a good thing. Those kids deserved the good they got. I wish they had gotten more good. I wish the bad hadn't happened. I certainly wish they could have gone on with their lives and had the potential for greatness. But I'm glad they got what good they did along the way.

 

[Mira_Eg]

Audio clip of March-26 call regarding the Hart family, after the third attempt by CPS to check on them inside their Washington house:
http://www.kptv.com/story/37916936/washington-911-call-reveals-how-cps-tried-contacting-hart-family
The investigator thinks they were inside at least the first time he tried knocking the door: "Different cars have been moving in and out, I noticed, so I feel like someone is there...."

 

[SATA]

I know I am not alone in this as Facebook is called Fakebook. I have several people on my Facebook that make up stuff.

Some have abusive parents and they talk about how great they are.

One is overweight and looks nothing like the pictures she posts. I wonder how she does it. And she has her fake experiences.

A few more, but I will skip the details.

Why do they make up these fake lives? Maybe Sarah and Jen could have had a fun life with the three but they decided to have three more and to abuse one for sure right away. Why did they do it? Why did they make a fake life? Did they believe their own lies?

They were the Tribe, but when the Tribe got a lot of attention with Devonte, they hightailed it out of there.

The pictures of Devonte crying before hugging the cop and the movie of Jeremiah with the worm indicate control issues.

Did Jen never work?

There was a conviction for abuse prior to them adopting the second set of siblings, so I don´t think so.
With a conviction, it is serious abuse, they were already overwhelmed (or whatever they were!).
How they got to adopt more children with a conviction of abuse is beyond me!

 

[Aescwynn]

Given that these kids were, in all likelihood, the victims of mass murder perpetrated by one or both of their adopted mothers, I'm finding the whole discussion a little surreal. I guess I understand the desire to pull back from what can seem like a witch hunt, but on the other hand, I don't feel good giving those two women any inch of good will. Sure, calling the Hart home a concentration camp is a big stretch, but at the same time, I think it's very important to remember their documented history of running from CPS.
All people are doing is trying to connect the dots to the ultimate outcome.

 

[staunchcharacter]

What I’m interested in knowing is what type of gaming guild they were involved in. Gaming is addictive like drugs, etc. That, alone, could’ve led to neglect and abuse of their children.


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