CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #1

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CassieM said:
Okay, understood. As you can see, I am not as familiar with how to post here as you might be. They weren't exactly private conversations, but rather in adoption support type groups, so pretty extensive and plentiful over a lot of years - far from a one-off. Regardless, I get your point and acknowledge there is truth in it. Mine is simply that it is not always an optimal situation for the adoptee and, in some case, much less than optimal. It is a complex issue and there is no easy answer. This sad situation appears to be an especially bad example.
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I’ve been on here for a couple years and am still learning so no worries, you are doing just fine. And welcome. Thank you for sharing your experiences and thoughts.

Sadly, I think that bad people are bad people. Adopters are not excluded from that. Hell, look at all the bio parents on this site who do terrible things to their children.

I think my best friends mom, who is truly an amazing woman and mother, would be very sad to read the first link you posted in your other thread. She tried so hard to be the best mom she could be, and she did/does a damn good job. I would not try to invalidate anyone’s feelings, especially in such a sensitive and personal situation, but I would imagine that bloggers parents would be upset to read that post. JMO

JMO again, but I feel like being in the foster care system can be way less than optimal compared to being adopted by another race. Strictly my opinion.
 
Miya said:
See the bolded, but that's exactly what it is. Steiner was an esoteric racist nutjob.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ble-lessons-for-todays-children-a7402911.html

I don't even know which parts to quote from the link, you just have to read it all. Not only are their "teachings" racist, the science they teach is complete BS as well.

Just one quote:

“Some of the lessons are just crazy, ” says Dugan, “like the way they teach about colour. They believe that white light is not composed of colours mixed together. They believe white light is pure spirit.”

Teachers also don't get problems for using the "N" word. It's the same with all the esoteric and new age crap. I don't understand why people who are oh so liberal and esoteric don't go crazy with cognitive dissonance. New age/esoteric beliefs actually roughly go back 100 - 150 years, and we all know that racism and anti-semitism was "normal" back then. Even the Nazis had esoteric roots, see Thule Society:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thule_Society

And it all started with this woman in the mid 19th century and the new age movement has its roots in her teachings. Most people who are in this movement don't even know that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena_Blavatsky

Also, talking about cognitive dissonance, just look at the hiippies in the sixties, they all wanted to be so free and so full of love but they all had those new age beliefs that are actually connected to fascism and racism. And they all had their gurus that they saw as their leaders and followed them blindly. Often ending up in a cult = authoritarian system. While at the same time believing in freedom and seeing themselves as anti-fascism, anti-racism and anti-war.

Those movements still exist today and it looks like this family was part of it. A card-reading trauma nurse? Fits right in with all this. And the children definitely were brainwashed, those poor souls.
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That's a lot of broad, judgemental generalizations for one post!
 
Kasmeer said:
I can usually never remember my dreams, but once in a while I have the same recurrent nightmare, which I do remember when I wake up: being a passenger in a car, which goes over the edge of a cliff towards the sea, and then I wake up halfway down with that falling feeling that sometimes wakes you. Very scary feeling until I realise I'm safe in my own bed, and I'm really wishing I couldn't imagine so well how those poor children (and Sarah, if she was not a willing participant) must have felt.

I'd like to know more about the family, but the snippets we have do sound very odd - ok, I'm not an activism kind of person so just don't understand that lifestyle (although I'm not convinced it's appropriate for children, particularly children who might have various psychological and developmental problems) but why was Devonte the "star", front and centre in everything? Yes, in families there often is naturally a favourite child, but good parents try not to show it too much. Some of the photos of him really make me uncomfortable (hugging strangers, dancing in underwear - sure, it's fine to do that at home, but don't film it and put it on the internet!), and that's before we get into the reported abuse, which may well be a tip of the iceberg. Urgh. Poor kids, I can only agee with those who've said they seemed to be "props" for their parents rather than individuals with the freedom to do their own things.
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Since you asked....read all of the back stories and comments back when they were this "inspiring" couple. Check the dates and what was happening in the states after Trayvon Martin and then Ferguson. Obama very well covered by the news-"If I had a son" he would look like TM. Well if you had to pick one of the Hart children as an Obama son?
IMO it was better for "the show."
O/T Would anyone know IF any of the siblings had a deceased biological parent would they be eligible for survivor benefits until they turned 18?
 
nothingnew said:
Since you asked....read all of the back stories and comments back when they were this "inspiring" couple. Check the dates and what was happening in the states after Trayvon Martin and then Ferguson. Obama very well covered by the news-"If I had a son" he would look like TM. Well if you had to pick one of the Hart children as an Obama son?
IMO it was better for "the show."
O/T Would anyone know IF any of the siblings had a deceased biological parent would they be eligible for survivor benefits until they turned 18?
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I think that the bio parents would have to give up their parental rights, so I don’t think the kids would be eligible for survivor benefits, unless the kids were receiving the benefits before they were legally adopted. This is just my understanding from what I’ve read in the past about stepparents/adoption/benefits.
 
nothingnew said:
Since you asked....read all of the back stories and comments back when they were this "inspiring" couple. Check the dates and what was happening in the states after Trayvon Martin and then Ferguson. Obama very well covered by the news-"If I had a son" he would look like TM. Well if you had to pick one of the Hart children as an Obama son?
IMO it was better for "the show."
O/T Would anyone know IF any of the siblings had a deceased biological parent would they be eligible for survivor benefits until they turned 18?
Click to expand...

Ahh, thank you; I wouldn't have made that connection without it being pointed out to me, I was generally aware of those events but not to the extent of connecting the threads to reach that conclusion, it makes some sense now. Although if at all true, it certainly reinforces the idea that they cared far more for appearances than for the actual children, I wonder how all the others felt? Or if Devonte himself wanted to be a centre of attention, given the traumatic background they clained he had? He should have been allowed to just be a child IMO.
 
flourish said:
That's a lot of broad, judgemental generalizations for one post!
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No, it's just the truth. I looked into all that years ago because I'm from Austria and when you study our history and the Nazis, you stumble across all this as well. And Steiner was Austrian as well.

When I was young I was a "member" of this movement as well for a few years and then started to see all that is wrong with it. Waldorf schools are criticized a lot over here because of our history and because of their racism and weird teachings.

Your reply came so fast, I doubt you even clicked on my links.

“There is a biography of Schubert in which it is said that he looked rather like a negro. There is not a grain of truth in it. He actually had a pleasing, attractive face.” — Rudolf Steiner, KARMIC RELATIONSHIPS: Esoteric Studies - Volume I (Rudolf Steiner Press, 1972), VII.

“On one side we find the black race, which is earthly at most. If it moves to the West, it dies out. We also have the yellow race, which is in the middle between earth and the cosmos. If it moves to the East, it becomes brown, attaches itself too much to the cosmos, and becomes extinct. The white race is the future, the spiritually creative race." — Rudolf Steiner, VOM LEBEN DES MENSCHEN UND DER ERDE - ÜBER DAS WESEN DES CHRISTENTUMS (Verlag Der Rudolf Steiner-Nachlassverwaltung, 1961), GA 349, p. 52.**

A photocopy of p. 51, VOM LEBEN DES MENSCHEN UND DER ERDE- ÜBER DAS WESEN DES CHRISTENTUMS, showing Steiner's description of three human races. Blacks (Schwarz) are characterized by the rear brain (Hinterhirn), and they live primarily through their drives or urges (Triebleben). If they leave their proper place on Earth (i.e., Africa), they may become copper-red (Kupferrot) and die out. "Yellows" (Gelb, i.e., Asians) are characterized by the middle brain (Mittelhirn), and they live mainly in their emotions (Gefühlsleben). If they leave Asia, they may become brown (Braun) and die out. Whites (Weiss) are characterized by the forebrain (Vorderhirn), and they place emphasis on thinking (Denkleben). They are pretty much free to go where they please.

https://sites.google.com/site/waldorfwatch/races

Anthroposophists rarely translate this material into English or discuss it outside their private gatherings.
 
Does anyone know what she did at Kohl's? It had to have been a pretty good job to afford 6 kids and a big house. I do know that Minnesota pays adoption subsidies, but not anywhere near enough for all of that. (And I am not even sure they continue to pay if the children leave the state) Adoption subsidies are meant as SUBSIDIES, not entire income.

Maybe the kids got SSI, which would have been around $770 per kid? But I am not sure they could use it as income to buy a house.
 
I don’t think there have been any reports about the Hart’s and Waldorf but there are a ton of posts on the subject.
 
StephanieH said:
Does anyone know what she did at Kohl's? It had to have been a pretty good job to afford 6 kids and a big house. I do know that Minnesota pays adoption subsidies, but not anywhere near enough for all of that. (And I am not even sure they continue to pay if the children leave the state) Adoption subsidies are meant as SUBSIDIES, not entire income.

Maybe the kids got SSI, which would have been around $770 per kid? But I am not sure they could use it as income to buy a house.
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I’m curious about both of the moms family backgrounds. I wonder if one or both of them came from money or inherited money. Because idk how they lived off of a Kohl’s manager salary with that large of a family. Then again, I’m unfamiliar with the existence of adoption subsidies.
 
StephanieH said:
Does anyone know what she did at Kohl's? It had to have been a pretty good job to afford 6 kids and a big house. I do know that Minnesota pays adoption subsidies, but not anywhere near enough for all of that. (And I am not even sure they continue to pay if the children leave the state) Adoption subsidies are meant as SUBSIDIES, not entire income.

Maybe the kids got SSI, which would have been around $770 per kid? But I am not sure they could use it as income to buy a house.
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I believe it was an Assistant Mgr

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk
 
Reminder:

Please do not sleuth family friends of the Harts or anyone quoted in any news videos or articles. You may discuss the statements made by the family's friends and neighbors, but do not go further than that.

As far as I can tell, the family may have fooled more than one person into thinking they were a normal, loving couple of moms. Their friends and neighbors may genuinely be shocked if they are just now learning about the abuse and that LE believes this was an intentional murder-suicide.

Even if their friends knew something was off, it does not give us the right to turn random strangers' lives upside down. If anyone conspired with or covered up abuse for these women, I trust LE will figure it out and make any arrests that are necessary.
 
bears10 said:
I’ve been on here for a couple years and am still learning so no worries, you are doing just fine. And welcome. Thank you for sharing your experiences and thoughts.

Sadly, I think that bad people are bad people. Adopters are not excluded from that. Hell, look at all the bio parents on this site who do terrible things to their children.

I think my best friends mom, who is truly an amazing woman and mother, would be very sad to read the first link you posted in your other thread. She tried so hard to be the best mom she could be, and she did/does a damn good job. I would not try to invalidate anyone’s feelings, especially in such a sensitive and personal situation, but I would imagine that bloggers parents would be upset to read that post. JMO

JMO again, but I feel like being in the foster care system can be way less than optimal compared to being adopted by another race. Strictly my opinion.
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RBBM
Right and IMO that is exactly why most of these types of discussions go on in private/closed forums. From my experience, adoptees often feel a lot of guilt about expressing their true feelings and acknowledging issues like this because they don't want to hurt their parents that they love very much.

Of course, being in a loving home is preferred to foster care, but sometimes the question isn't foster care vs interracial adoption. Sometimes it is family preservation vs. adoption.

from - https://www.theroot.com/3-black-adoptees-on-racial-identity-after-growing-up-in-1790858603

"Calling herself a family preservationist, Rollins says she is not anti-adoption, but she is concerned with how many black children end up in foster care, and feels more should be done to help children stay within their birth families, making transracial adoption a last resort.

“I’m interested in how black mothers can raise their own children in a healthy, community-supported way,” Rollins said. “Maybe that looks like [preserving] a family, instead of adopting and removing a child. Maybe I befriend someone and support them in keeping their child. Maybe I’m an auntie figure.”

but then it adds:
Raised by white parents she credits with making sure she wanted for nothing, Rachel Noerdlinger still went through a period during which she believed transracial adoptions should happen only as a last resort. While she loved her parents and they loved her, she wasn’t sure if that could be enough to counter the effects of racism, and that initially made her stance harsh. But time and motherhood have softened her view.

“Having my own child made me realize that all children need homes and that love is love, but at the same time I still strongly think that we need to do more to expose families of color to the adoption process,” Noerdlinger said.

Obviously, a very complex issue.
 
bears10 said:
I don’t think there have been any reports about the Hart’s and Waldorf but there are a ton of posts on the subject.
Click to expand...

Somebody brought it up and then I just wanted to share what I know about it and that it's far from perfect, no matter how "free" the children seem to be.

And the other reason why I replied to the posts - this family had nothing to do with Waldorf schools, but they clearly were this hippy-ish new age couple, so I thought showing the roots of esoteric/new age beliefs and how cult-ish it can be even if you are not in a cult could be interesting to some here.

Their children definitely didn't have FREEDOM, and that you still have friends that talk about how great they were and who said that with the triumph? That is creepy.
 
At least the Turpin kids were rescued in time and are doing good under the circumstances and getting healthier everyday.

These little Angels of God never stood a chance. There is just so much evil in this world. When it comes to the innocent children whose lives end at the hands of evil has got to be the most heartbreaking.
 
nothingnew said:
Since you asked....read all of the back stories and comments back when they were this "inspiring" couple. Check the dates and what was happening in the states after Trayvon Martin and then Ferguson. Obama very well covered by the news-"If I had a son" he would look like TM. Well if you had to pick one of the Hart children as an Obama son?
IMO it was better for "the show."
O/T Would anyone know IF any of the siblings had a deceased biological parent would they be eligible for survivor benefits until they turned 18?
Click to expand...

O/T: I don’t know if the laws/rules around that vary, but I have an adopted friend with a disability who gets survivor benefits from bio dad.
 
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