Deceased/Not Found Ca - Hannah,16 (fnd dec), Devonte,15, (dec nf) Ciera Hart,12 (fnd dec),mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #7

[debbiegarcia36]

I distinctly remember reading at least one article quoting the Dekalbs In which they say they went ahead and bought the food...but maybe they just agreed to buy it.

Here is a detail related to Dekalbs interviews about Hannah's late night flight I don't see repeated very often: she asked for a ride to Seattle. Who did she know in Seattle?

I dont know, but I am wondering if the woman the Harts stayed with for two weeks lives in Seattle. She reported the abuse she witnessed by Jen. In that 2 week period she might have left a favorable impression on Hannah as someone to go to for help.

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[gitana1]

Like a linebacker? If I remember right, Jen played softball with the boys team?

So. Maybe she hit hard when she was emotional?

Just running with the thoughts... Jen is the "husband" of the pair. Am I remembering that right? Wedding article a few weeks back...

I do believe it was an over the top exuberant Bernie moment in 2016, but who knows what those moments sometimes reveal...

I'm not sure what that means. There are no "husbands" within lesbian couples. That's an old, unfortunate and super heteronormative stereotype. Lesbian couples are comprised of two women who are attracted to each other in part because they're both women. Not because one is a pale approximation of a man.

That stereotype presupposes that being a woman in a relationship with a woman doesn't work unless one of the women takes on the role of a man. I can tell you that's utter nonsense.

 

[rastalives]

Why are you saying that Devonte asked for 6 of everything when he thought CPS was coming to save him and the other children the next day? Was it not said that Devonte expressly asked the neighbur NOT to 'tell'? So why would he think CPS would be coming the next day? If things had gone his way, he would have had this big stash of food to hand out to each of his siblings and himself, and things would go on as before, except they'd have food to eat when hungry, even when food was withheld for their 'bad behavior', whatever that was.

Six kids = 1 of each item for each sibling... as each's own personal stash for when each was feeling hungry.. stuff that would keep well, so that it would last awhile, so that he would not have to keep coming over and asking for more (which he knew was a very risky thing for him to be doing). Makes sense to me! jmo.

I don't think he is out there - at least not alive.. although it just seems too unlikely that the missing two are the same two that put the couple at risk of all the kids being removed from the home. I fear these two may have been killed in a different way, in a different location. But hopefully their bodies will be discovered soon, one way or another, in one place or another. jmo.

I agree. I’ve been following this case since the beginning. As much as I hope and pray those beautiful babies are out there somewhere, at this point I doubt it. Unfortunately, I think they could have been killed and left in the Naselle area. This would account for the missing time and them going completely out of their way.
If he ran away, I believe he would have taken his siblings with him. Him asking for 6 of everything tells me how much he cared about his siblings, he wanted each of them to be able to have their own food. If he had ran away, I think he would have been spotted by now. Woodland is a TINY town. He would have been memorable, it is less than 1 percent Black, as are many of the surrounding areas. He would have stood out anywhere he went, especially with dogs with him.

 

[rastalives]

Its criminal. Beautiful, beautiful child. Taken from the family who loved her and given to devils. For what? Why? And left with those monsters despite all that evidence of the horror they subjected the kids to.

It's outrageous.

I know we are not supposed to talk about race, however in this case it’s extremely important. The Hart’s took advantage of their peer’s racial biases and prejudice. No one questioned their crack baby story...they got to play the “white savior” card and they manipulated everyone around them.
I believe the bio family tried the best they could, and it’s clear they loved the children. I believe social services failed their mother as well as the children. If you do the math, their mother was just a young teen in the 80’s when she had her first involvement with CPS. Heartbreaking story all around. Those children are gorgeous and would have had bright futures 😔

 

[Aescwynn]

Apologies if this has been asked/discussed before.
Does anyone know if, when the car was recovered, the windows were found to have been opened or were they smashed as a result of impact?

Hello,
I've been following these threads since the beginning and to my knowledge, that information has never been released. We've been told that the children were thrown from the car, but whether this happened after the windows smashed on impact or because the windows were down, has not been publically specified.

IMO, LE has been very stingy with their details about the wreck itself. There are some things that they can't know, of course, such as whether there were any suitcases or tents or the like in the Yukon (those things would probably have been washed away). But stuff like the windows-- I'd like to know that, too. Were the kids all knocked out on Benadryl, and did Jen roll all the back windows down before going over the edge? I'm curious.

 

[deugirtni]

Eaten by sharks. Very quickly. They're so small.

Are there sharks in that area?

If so, then those 2 missing children may never be found, if they might also be digesting in shark bellies?

Somehow.. I guess because I am an animal lover.. I was 'imagining' that the person(s) doing this mass killing may have wanted to allow their animals to live the rest of their lives, as they were uninvolved in the whole mess. Wishful thinking, I guess. And surely if the couple had dropped the pets off at a friend's ahead of the event, those friends would have spoken up. jmo.

 

[Aescwynn]

Are there sharks in that area?

If so, then those 2 missing children may never be found, if they might also be digesting in shark bellies?

Somehow.. I guess because I am an animal lover.. I was 'imagining' that the person(s) doing this mass killing may have wanted to allow their animals to live the rest of their lives, as they were uninvolved in the whole mess. Wishful thinking, I guess. And surely if the couple had dropped the pets off at a friend's ahead of the event, those friends would have spoken up. jmo.

IMO, if Devonte or Hannah or both, with or without the dogs, were not in the Yukon crash, they weren't dropped off alive at a friend's house. Jen was murderous. Some alternatives:

1. The two of them were able to run away before the rest of the family even left, which might possibly be part of what sparked Jen's murderous/suicidal rage. If this is what happened, the two of them could be anywhere, but the fact that they haven't turned up by now isn't a good sign.
2. Jen dumped them somewhere out of the way, alive, most likely with no supplies. They wouldn't be able to get far like that.
3. Jen killed them and she and Sarah hid the bodies somewhere along the long trek between their Woodland home and the point where they crashed.

I realize these are all very grim but the more time passes, the less hope I have for those two dears.

There's one more long shot, proposed by people in one of the last couple of threads. One or both of the two missing kids could have somehow wound up at one of the off-the-grid farming establishments, perhaps known to Jen via the music festival circuit. If this is the case, I wouldn't think that Jen would have left them there by choice. IMO, I think one or both would have taken the opportunity to run away and to have stayed hidden until Jen and Sarah finally left, knowing that there was no telephone access up there. At that point, s/he/they could have come out of hiding. The farm's operators would keep their presence quiet even after knowledge of the wreck spread because of the danger of LE finding their farm. And, because the kids are just fine living there, anyway.
That theory is a very long shot, but the only hopeful one.

All MOO, y'all.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Let's see.... Linebacker looking...Jen was on a boys' team....Jen hit hard....Jen stood in for a "husband".

I'm not sure what you're getting at, but as far as I can tell, JH is a woman and she has a wife.

Many women hit hard, played on boys' teams, loved to be tomboys. This doesn't make them manly or husband-like.

I'm not sure what that means. There are no "husbands" within lesbian couples. That's an old, unfortunate and super heteronormative stereotype. Lesbian couples are comprised of two women who are attracted to each other in part because they're both women. Not because one is a pale approximation of a man.

That stereotype presupposes that being a woman in a relationship with a woman doesn't work unless one of the women takes on the role of a man. I can tell you that's utter nonsense.

These are all really good and important points. And, my 50's upbringing is engrained, and not necessarily up to date...

Of course as in all partnerships there are exchanges and balances of energy. Tough parent, soft parent. Dominant, passive. Stereotypes of male, female. Abusive, enabling. This list goes on.

Jen strikes me as the dominant partner, the main aggressor with her children, her aggressive 'my way or the highway' language in some of her postings, her control of the narrative. Sarah took the hit in the abuse conviction, seemed to acquiesce to Jen's need to wanderlust with the kids, Sarah maintained the home-front while they were gone...

Most of us are children of well defined stereotypes, even though those parameters are changing in our modern world.

And, forgive me for not being more clear on this as I have gay married friends some of whom reveal a more traditional structure of roles, and others where the energy is much more nuanced.

So who were Jen and Sarah? When they got married, they might have liked Jen's last name better, simple as that? We read a lot about their crimes as parents but not much about their partnership which was long lasting by so many measures.

We hear they were madly in love in college, forging love in an uncertain acceptance landscape in America, traveling to a state they probably never visited before to commit to marriage.

So, back to energy, the OP pointed out the aggressive high five of Jen to Sarah at the Sanders rally with the sparrow. There are, of course, the wild women at sports games, and the tough women in life, in every male dominated field, that dosen't diminish their womanhood. But also, not every tomboy makes it onto male sports teams. It takes a certain physicality and drive to accomplish that. Imo

As I think about it this morning, it is perhaps the sum total of dominance and passivity that I might be seeing? And that energy has a stereotypical lens.

It could very well be Sarah was the controlling force, the breadwinner, the one who felt she had the power, and Jen's aggression was a replay out of a feeling of oppression?

Dynamics, roles exist in all relationships regardless of sex. Perhaps there is a clue in how Devonte responded to power, both in his knowledge of being the golden child, and in his desperation to be the man, to save his siblings? He was 15 years old. Who was he going up against, what kind of energy was he going up against?

I believe the FBI was brought in to help with profiling because it is just out of the scope of Mendocino county's capabilities.
All jmo

 

[rosemadderlake]

IMO, if Devonte or Hannah or both, with or without the dogs, were not in the Yukon crash, they weren't dropped off alive at a friend's house. Jen was murderous. Some alternatives:

1. The two of them were able to run away before the rest of the family even left, which might possibly be part of what sparked Jen's murderous/suicidal rage. If this is what happened, the two of them could be anywhere, but the fact that they haven't turned up by now isn't a good sign.
2. Jen dumped them somewhere out of the way, alive, most likely with no supplies. They wouldn't be able to get far like that.
3. Jen killed them and she and Sarah hid the bodies somewhere along the long trek between their Woodland home and the point where they crashed.

I realize these are all very grim but the more time passes, the less hope I have for those two dears.

There's one more long shot, proposed by people in one of the last couple of threads. One or both of the two missing kids could have somehow wound up at one of the off-the-grid farming establishments, perhaps known to Jen via the music festival circuit. If this is the case, I wouldn't think that Jen would have left them there by choice. IMO, I think one or both would have taken the opportunity to run away and to have stayed hidden until Jen and Sarah finally left, knowing that there was no telephone access up there. At that point, s/he/they could have come out of hiding. The farm's operators would keep their presence quiet even after knowledge of the wreck spread because of the danger of LE finding their farm. And, because the kids are just fine living there, anyway.
That theory is a very long shot, but the only hopeful one.

All MOO, y'all.

Re: Bbm: The long shot. This is not such a long shot IMO... Why?

Such a long tradition of the delicate balance of choice of lifestyle, protecting of same, and omg, the FBI... What?

For every connection there is perhaps something illegal to protect? What, are they going to do? Invite the FBI in for an espresso?

I can't tell you the number of lawyers hired to defend the dumbasses traveling with weed back in the 70's and 80's. Or, yes, the few savvy off the grid pot growers back then. I mean really off the grid.

So, everyone has a deal, maybe it's legal in WA, OR, CA, but it is not federally.

So where are we? BIG stumbling block as to who is going to give up the farm to talk to the federal authorities...

And who might think they have a better way based in that.

Based on my own reefer madness generation, it's a possibility.

And so to is someone with this mindset protecting two children and two dogs.

I know it is a long shot, but damn if there were ever a time I wished for that, this would be it.

 

[disgruntled]

This young woman was legally blind and likely drugged and survived a month in the wilderness.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/woman-survived-woods-speaks-49268366

This little guy was just 7. I think Devonte could definitely survive longer. I worry most about Hannah, but she proved herself pretty tough when she jumped out of that window and escaped through the brambles.

https://news.vice.com/article/7-yea...t-after-parents-leave-him-alone-as-punishment

I really don't think these kids would have been left alive intentionally by their mothers, but I still cling to hope that Devonte and maybe even Hannah ran. That would definitely send Jen over the edge if CPS was knocking at her door. She would have no idea who had called them and would likely assume the missing kids had found help and they were going to prison just like the Turpins.

I find the request for cured meat from a boy raised as a vegetarian very interesting. I wonder if he did not read a book or article about hiking/survival. He was looking for high protein portable foods. Foods a wilderness hiker would carry.
If Jen told the truth and Devonte was afraid of the police, he would likely be hiding. He would know nothing of his siblings murder. He could be holed up almost anywhere, an old cabin or abandoned building or a little tent in their backpack. These kids are familiar with camping and hiking. he could be moving from place to place. hopefully with his sister.

The dogs could be a big asset to the kids if they are deep in the woods, especially the bigger dog. If they are hiding close to people the dogs would make them easier to detect.

After a months it is hard to hang onto hope for these kids, but I still hope they are alive out there somewhere.

 

[AlwaysHopeToHelp]

How do I ER verified? I’m a previously licensed EMT, Insurance Agent and photographer with proof of all licensing. I feel I can add to this conversation and sent a email with documentation but haven’t heard back. I just sent to Admin - but I don’t know if just the name Admin was the right person - is there a particular member I should send to??
Oh and also, I have years of experience with having adopted from CPS foster adoption and a keen understanding of the way it all works and what hoops must be leapt through!


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[ilovepierre]

Are there sharks in that area?

If so, then those 2 missing children may never be found, if they might also be digesting in shark bellies?

Somehow.. I guess because I am an animal lover.. I was 'imagining' that the person(s) doing this mass killing may have wanted to allow their animals to live the rest of their lives, as they were uninvolved in the whole mess. Wishful thinking, I guess. And surely if the couple had dropped the pets off at a friend's ahead of the event, those friends would have spoken up. jmo.

BBM

Yes, there are sharks in that area.
Not nearly as many as in the San Diego area, but there are sharks and attacks have occurred.

 

[Aescwynn]

So, everyone has a deal, maybe it's legal in WA, OR, CA, but it is not federally.

And they might be growing a thing or two that isn't even legal in WA, OR or CA.

 

[rosemadderlake]

This young woman was legally blind and likely drugged and survived a month in the wilderness.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/woman-survived-woods-speaks-49268366

This little guy was just 7. I think Devonte could definitely survive longer. I worry most about Hannah, but she proved herself pretty tough when she jumped out of that window and escaped through the brambles.

https://news.vice.com/article/7-yea...t-after-parents-leave-him-alone-as-punishment

I really don't think these kids would have been left alive intentionally by their mothers, but I still cling to hope that Devonte and maybe even Hannah ran. That would definitely send Jen over the edge if CPS was knocking at her door. She would have no idea who had called them and would likely assume the missing kids had found help and they were going to prison just like the Turpins.

I find the request for cured meat from a boy raised as a vegetarian very interesting. I wonder if he did not read a book or article about hiking/survival. He was looking for high protein portable foods. Foods a wilderness hiker would carry.
If Jen told the truth and Devonte was afraid of the police, he would likely be hiding. He would know nothing of his siblings murder. He could be holed up almost anywhere, an old cabin or abandoned building or a little tent in their backpack. These kids are familiar with camping and hiking. he could be moving from place to place. hopefully with his sister.

The dogs could be a big asset to the kids if they are deep in the woods, especially the bigger dog. If they are hiding close to people the dogs would make them easier to detect.

After a months it is hard to hang onto hope for these kids, but I still hope they are alive out there somewhere.

Damn...

Aside from the heartbreak of survival, I think you might be right, disgruntled: Dogs have other senses, like they can find their way out. Find their way home, find their way... Like that adorable bulldog knows exactly where Devonte is.

I agree, I think cured meats were for Devonte's doggies.

Damn, that little bulldog was just about the cutest little thing. It's so tragic.

This is very important. Though I believe these were pampered pets, their instincts would kick in, in any given situation.

 

[scandinavian girl]

Damn...

Aside from the heartbreak of survival, I think you might be right, disgruntled: Dogs have other senses, like they can find their way out. Find their way home, find their way... Like that adorable bulldog knows exactly where Devonte is.

I agree, I think cured meats were for Devonte's doggies.

Damn, that little bulldog was just about the cutest little thing. It's so tragic.

This is very important. Though I believe these were pampered pets, their instincts would kick in, in any given situation.

BBM, meat for the dogs makes a lot of sense, that thought never popped up in my brain and I am a dogperson/vegetarian.

 

[gcharlie]

Picture uploaded by Jen Hart to FB on 12/3/2014 (search FB jen hart photos)

Jen tagged a friend, posting "Devonte sends an abundance of love to you and your family! Our entire family looks forward to the next time we meet. Much Love."

Friend replied; "Oh Jen Hart! I will never forget that smile. What an amazing young man you have raised. The world thanks you, and him, for reminding us of the power of love, forgiveness and the highest possibilities of humanity. This is the unity prayer that we are all walking. So honored to be walking it with you.... for my children to walk it with your children together as shining warriors of the heart. It is the only way forward. The only way to heal this wounded and suffering planet scarred by so much violence and suffering passed down through the generations. So looking forward to seeing you again, and hoping that Devonte will be able to speak at unity 2015. We are focusing on the youth next year... We need a movement led by the children! It is coming! It is already here! (and so there IS hope!) sending love."

That man literally looks like he is trying to strangle Devonte. It could not have been comfortable, yet the kid did smile for the camera. Sigh.

 

[disgruntled]

It seems unlikely to me that a hungry kid would collect food for a dog and not himself. I have no doubt hungry Devonte would eat meat if he needed to.
I do know that when a kid is hungry they don't care about being a vegetarian or things like that. hungry kids will eat dog food or scraps from the trash, rinds and cores of fruit, even food that is dirty,raw or otherwise unsafe, even food that repulses them and they have to gag down. I remember being hungry enough to eat food with bugs in it, food that was clearly rotten and moldy food. At Hephzibah House we ate leather and paper.

 

[Jax49]

Picture uploaded by Jen Hart to FB on 12/3/2014 (search FB jen hart photos)

Jen tagged a friend, posting "Devonte sends an abundance of love to you and your family! Our entire family looks forward to the next time we meet. Much Love."

Friend replied; "Oh Jen Hart! I will never forget that smile. What an amazing young man you have raised. The world thanks you, and him, for reminding us of the power of love, forgiveness and the highest possibilities of humanity. This is the unity prayer that we are all walking. So honored to be walking it with you.... for my children to walk it with your children together as shining warriors of the heart. It is the only way forward. The only way to heal this wounded and suffering planet scarred by so much violence and suffering passed down through the generations. So looking forward to seeing you again, and hoping that Devonte will be able to speak at unity 2015. We are focusing on the youth next year... We need a movement led by the children! It is coming! It is already here! (and so there IS hope!) sending love."

That man literally looks like he is trying to strangle Devonte. It could not have been comfortable, yet the kid did smile for the camera. Sigh.

bbm

What the hell? How can D smile thru that?

 

[Momoffourboys]

bbm

What the hell? How can D smile thru that?

Survival. Devonte knew what he had to do to avoid punishment. He complied
Poor baby.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Oh hayyyy...
Meghhugh...
Hugh..
Oh yeh!
Grrr,

Whaghhhhahhh!!!
Hmm...
Damn!

Whirligig.
My,friend...

Aaaoohhh
My friend, my love, my compatriot...

My partner...