CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #13

[Alisajo]

Sorry, deleted by me

 

[Alisajo]

A murderer is like a b-grade script writer, trying to write his first ever crime drama under huge psychological pressure.

For this reason, I find the wire tap evidence, the jail house tapes, and the police interviews completely fascinating, and the most incriminating of all.

An ordinary person, speaks from experiential memory and their dialogue represents their state of mind, and also reflects their emotional state.

Any script writer knows, realistic dialogue is one of the hardest things to script.

The killer on the other hand tends to be preoccupied with narrative. Because he is unsophisticated, he tends to write in a way that he thinks television or books tell stories. This preoccupation frequently causes him to forget to play his own role in the film. He is so busy directing the action, he forgets to give himself natural dialogue and actions.

Significantly this same mistake always extends to the victims. The killer will have lots of direction notes about the victim(s) but typically forget to craft them actual dialogue and actions that are experienced.

A high quality script writer, in essence takes the narrative, and brings it to life using action and quality dialogue.

A bad script writer brings the narrative to life via exposition.



Real life doesn't use exposition. Yet Chase constantly uses it. And in his private moments, he forgets to have any dialogue at all. See for example the long responses from CJ filled with emotion, and stream of consciousness compared to his answers. Where is the dialogue of an innocent man? Where are his lived experiences and emotions?

This extends to Joey. We hear exposition (we talked about the business) but where is the rich detail? Where are actual quotes from Joey? What did Joey actually do and say? Where did he sit? What did he order? A quality screenwriter actual scripts this business meeting down to the sandwich order. A crappy one just gives you the cliffs notes.

This stuff is hardly the only errors but just to leave you with one more. (I call this the Foxy Special)

Real life does not have foreshadowing.

No one fights over the "last call" before they even know it's the last call

We have to use foreshadowing when scripting TV.

For goodness sakes don't use it in your murder

I agree with you.

That scenario plays well in real life. If you are trying to distance yourself from the incident you created.

JMO, It's seems like script writer's main story line is playing a superficial role. Straight to DVD. Just my interpretation.

 

[Tortoise]

Thanks T

As you can tell, I am fascinated by the overall topic of staging, and killer as story teller.

In my day job, I am always dealing with amateurs who can't write properly. You see all these mistakes where due to the overwhelming need to "message" - the basics of good story writing go out the window.

It was especially with our dear friend Pistorius, that I realised he was making all the same mistakes my clients make

The many signs become easier to spot the more cases you follow IMO. They put so much effort into getting their own story right that they overlook the other person in it, so it's just not believable. Chris Watts was another example - he forgot to try to look worried about his family being missing, or he thought if he looked worried it would point to him knowing something.

 

[mrjitty]

The many signs become easier to spot the more cases you follow IMO. They put so much effort into getting their own story right that they overlook the other person in it, so it's just not believable. Chris Watts was another example - he forgot to try to look worried about his family being missing, or he thought if he looked worried it would point to him knowing something.

Watts is a good example of exposition. Instead of being actually sad or worried, like an actor would play the role of husband with missing family, he merely talks about those things

I've noticed sociopathic types do this in real life. They describe being angry, rather than actual demonstrative behaviour

Old Oscar P is my favourite of the genre. He gave Reeva all of one line in the film.

 

[Tortoise]

Watts is a good example of exposition. Instead of being actually sad or worried, like an actor would play the role of husband with missing family, he merely talks about those things

I've noticed sociopathic types do this in real life. They describe being angry, rather than actual demonstrative behaviour

Old Oscar P is my favourite of the genre. He gave Reeva all of one line in the film.

Can't you sleep bubba?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Nor can I.
All I can think of is the innocent victims and their family members.
I live here in So. California and I pay Huge Taxes.
Huge.
Why these horrific murders are not front page daily news is scary to me.

The judge postponing trial for a dental appointment is scary to me.
Can we just focus on the innocent victims who were brutally. Brutally, murdered and I believe tortured ?

Can we just get into that? An entire family murdered.

This is not a small crime.

This is a frigging horrific crime.
Law enforcement has after years of research identified the killer.

Now, we have a justice system that cannot even do a 5 day trial without idiotic disruptions that go on for weeks on end.
God bless the victims here..
I would be manic if this was my family.
No disrespect to the wonderful families of Summer and Joey.
I am praying for justice.

I feel your pain, and frustration too, KALI! I share the same pain, and frustration you have.

I would say this trial has become a three ring circus, but that doesn't fit either. All characters have to show up every day for the circus show to go on.

I can't begin to imagine how the family members must be feeling. It's like these horrific murders seem to matter very little, and I don't understand why.

It's like this horrific case and trial has been put on the back burner, and they will get around to it whenever.

If there is such a thing as a typical murder case, this case isn't one of them.

This is one of the most brutal mass murders not often seen. IMO.

Its not often we see a mass murderer capable of crushing the skulls of two fragile little children, along with their mommy, and daddy with the murderer having no family link at all to all of the victims.

KALI, if you know, how far does the family members have to travel one way to attend the trial?

Does CA have a fund that assists monetarily with the family members attending the trials of the one who murdered their loved ones? Tia

So far the defense case has been a big dud. Imo. The only parts of it that has brought out revealing testimony is when they were cross examined by the state. Imo

Even when the defense finally presents their hired gun experts, I dont think it will amount to a hill of beans in the long run or move the needle one inch away from showing CM is the murderer, and the right man on trial.

I have endured many CA trials through the years, but this one, hands down, is the most bizarre, and so unfair to all of the family members of the four victims.

 

[katydid23]

If they were killed at home, why was Jr.'s backpack in the grave?

It may have been in the vehicle so he decided to bury it. Or it was used to transport some other things to be buried.

 

[katydid23]

@Niner

jury not in today but Judge & Counsel are meeting

That^^^ would be fascinating to hear. Lots of fireworks I bet.

 

[Bernina]

It may have been in the vehicle so he decided to bury it. Or it was used to transport some other things to be buried.

I thought it was like Joey Jr.s security blanket, something he never went anywhere without. He was fascinated with dinosaurs and had his archaeology "tools" in it, There's a video where Joey is talking with him how this would be a great place to find things, ie dig around. There's an abundance of pics with him wearing it. He quite possibly had it on when he was killed and that's why I believe it was in the grave.

 

[MissJames]

A murderer is like a b-grade script writer, trying to write his first ever crime drama under huge psychological pressure.

For this reason, I find the wire tap evidence, the jail house tapes, and the police interviews completely fascinating, and the most incriminating of all.

An ordinary person, speaks from experiential memory and their dialogue represents their state of mind, and also reflects their emotional state.

Any script writer knows, realistic dialogue is one of the hardest things to script.

The killer on the other hand tends to be preoccupied with narrative. Because he is unsophisticated, he tends to write in a way that he thinks television or books tell stories. This preoccupation frequently causes him to forget to play his own role in the film. He is so busy directing the action, he forgets to give himself natural dialogue and actions.

Significantly this same mistake always extends to the victims. The killer will have lots of direction notes about the victim(s) but typically forget to craft them actual dialogue and actions that are experienced.

A high quality script writer, in essence takes the narrative, and brings it to life using action and quality dialogue.

A bad script writer brings the narrative to life via exposition.



Real life doesn't use exposition. Yet Chase constantly uses it. And in his private moments, he forgets to have any dialogue at all. See for example the long responses from CJ filled with emotion, and stream of consciousness compared to his answers. Where is the dialogue of an innocent man? Where are his lived experiences and emotions?

This extends to Joey. We hear exposition (we talked about the business) but where is the rich detail? Where are actual quotes from Joey? What did Joey actually do and say? Where did he sit? What did he order? A quality screenwriter actual scripts this business meeting down to the sandwich order. A crappy one just gives you the cliffs notes.

This stuff is hardly the only errors but just to leave you with one more. (I call this the Foxy Special)

Real life does not have foreshadowing.

No one fights over the "last call" before they even know it's the last call

We have to use foreshadowing when scripting TV.

For goodness sakes don't use it in your murder

Exactly !
(preface:not bringing discussion of JC trial here, just this one example.)
An example I’ve been aware of is in the ongoing Jason Carter trial. This has really bugged me , but your post explains it perfectly.
The son/defendant repeats in interviews & to first responders “Someone shot my mom”.
Not “ My mom’s been shot “ with focus on his mom he just discovered on the floor ,
but on “SOMEONE” as the focus . Very telling , IMO .

 

[LadyL]

A murderer is like a b-grade script writer, trying to write his first ever crime drama under huge psychological pressure.

For this reason, I find the wire tap evidence, the jail house tapes, and the police interviews completely fascinating, and the most incriminating of all.

An ordinary person, speaks from experiential memory and their dialogue represents their state of mind, and also reflects their emotional state.

Any script writer knows, realistic dialogue is one of the hardest things to script.

The killer on the other hand tends to be preoccupied with narrative. Because he is unsophisticated, he tends to write in a way that he thinks television or books tell stories. This preoccupation frequently causes him to forget to play his own role in the film. He is so busy directing the action, he forgets to give himself natural dialogue and actions.

Significantly this same mistake always extends to the victims. The killer will have lots of direction notes about the victim(s) but typically forget to craft them actual dialogue and actions that are experienced.

A high quality script writer, in essence takes the narrative, and brings it to life using action and quality dialogue.

A bad script writer brings the narrative to life via exposition.



Real life doesn't use exposition. Yet Chase constantly uses it. And in his private moments, he forgets to have any dialogue at all. See for example the long responses from CJ filled with emotion, and stream of consciousness compared to his answers. Where is the dialogue of an innocent man? Where are his lived experiences and emotions?

This extends to Joey. We hear exposition (we talked about the business) but where is the rich detail? Where are actual quotes from Joey? What did Joey actually do and say? Where did he sit? What did he order? A quality screenwriter actual scripts this business meeting down to the sandwich order. A crappy one just gives you the cliffs notes.

This stuff is hardly the only errors but just to leave you with one more. (I call this the Foxy Special)

Real life does not have foreshadowing.

No one fights over the "last call" before they even know it's the last call

We have to use foreshadowing when scripting TV.

For goodness sakes don't use it in your murder

this is really interesting to me but I'm having trouble grasping it

so when Chase talked about Joey sitting at his desk, he didn't describe what Joey was saying and that's suspicious?
when Chase talked about the lunch meeting, again he didn't include any conversation so that's suspicious?

 

[Force Ten]

this is really interesting to me but I'm having trouble grasping it

so when Chase talked about Joey sitting at his desk, he didn't describe what Joey was saying and that's suspicious?
when Chase talked about the lunch meeting, again he didn't include any conversation so that's suspicious?

To me, it absolutely is. For CM to be the last person to speak to and see Joseph, he should remember every single detail of what transpired. He had a lot of time to think it over as well. The lunch meeting went for one to two hours.

Did they just sit there staring at one another?

 

[Tortoise]

That^^^ would be fascinating to hear. Lots of fireworks I bet.

I wonder if we might get a recording. Probably not. There were some parts the judge was going to listen to in camera (about the witness - their crime scene specialist - objection to providing information to the prosecution) but I think they were also going to try to whittle down the 8hr interview by agreement.

 

[Meemaw12]

I thought it was like Joey Jr.s security blanket, something he never went anywhere without. He was fascinated with dinosaurs and had his archaeology "tools" in it, There's a video where Joey is talking with him how this would be a great place to find things, ie dig around. There's an abundance of pics with him wearing it. He quite possibly had it on when he was killed and that's why I believe it was in the grave.

I agree with you. Breaks my heart to think what those little boys went through. Awful!!!!

 

[Meemaw12]

I sincerely hope there is a victims advocate in court for the McStay family.

I get so disgusted when a trial goes this way. Reason I quit following them.

It’s always about the defendent. Defense or people trying to disparage the true victims. Like it’s their freakin fault.

This family did not deserve this brutal murder. Hell no one IMO does. Their extended family ie mom, dad, brother, nieces, nephews none of them deserve to be disparaged in any way shape or form. If they can’t remember something or get something wrong BS it’s been over 9 years. Besides at least they take the stand. Unlike the murdering coward sitting there Chase Merritt.

This is a freakin trial to bring justice for the McStay family. Chase Merritt is on trial for killing them in a horrific way.

The State has presented evidence against him which I feel is compelling, not everyone agrees that’s fine. BUT if there are Jurors sitting there listening and feel like me. This is going to get the death penalty. I would have no qualms giving it to him.

The 2 pieces of convincing evidence above all others is

DNA in the Trooper
Checks written on 2/4.

No way around it no matter how many excuses are given. Lynch pin for me. Strap him in. Done.

I’m getting harden in my old age. But the McStay family was shown no mercy. None!!!

This is my opinion.!!!!

 

[LadyL]

To me, it absolutely is. For CM to be the last person to speak to and see Joseph, he should remember every single detail of what transpired. He had a lot of time to think it over as well. The lunch meeting went for one to two hours.

Did they just sit there staring at one another?

I get that there would've been conversation. Just not grasping why the lack of repeating that conversation is suspicious.

 

[Bernina]

I get that there would've been conversation. Just not grasping why the lack of repeating that conversation is suspicious.

I remember the last convos I've had with people I've lost, whether suddenly, or through long illness, it kind of just pops out of nowhere. I don't know if it's a function of my brain or what?
Your friend is missing, you think about the last time you saw them and what you talked about.......that's something you replay over and over and probably would go into detail when asked about it. JMO.

 

[Tortoise]

I get that there would've been conversation. Just not grasping why the lack of repeating that conversation is suspicious.

Probably because it never happened. It's difficult to invent 2 hours of believable interaction that didn't happen.

ETA others may believe it's because they argued and he wouldn't want to talk about that.

MOO

 

[thelmadawg]

It may have been in the vehicle so he decided to bury it. Or it was used to transport some other things to be buried.

It's been said that he wore it constantly. If we speculate that Summer and Joseph Jr. were attacked while she was bathing him, or shortly thereafter while he was wearing the special bath towel, Gianni may well have been playing prospector in the playhouses upstairs or outside. It doesn't seem to be material to the case; just evokes the terror of it all.

 

[Force Ten]

It's been said that he wore it constantly. If we speculate that Summer and Joseph Jr. were attacked while she was bathing him, or shortly thereafter while he was wearing the special bath towel, Gianni may well have been playing prospector in the playhouses upstairs or outside. It doesn't seem to be material to the case; just evokes the terror of it all.

I remember one picture, I the one where they are playing with the mud, where Gianni is wearing it. I'll find it.

*I stand corrected, no pack. It breaks my heart that their innocence was stolen and lives lost so horrifically.