CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #16

[la2cabo]

In the OP Maline said there is no used boarding pass and no proof DK was in HI from Feb. 4 - 6. Wish either side would produce the evidence.

Lol. Maline said a lot of things but it doesn't make it factual.

 

[Texas Red]

But DK was in Hawaii.

There's been no viable evidence or eyewitness testimony that DK was in Hawaii on the 4th-5th of Feb. 2010.

And CM's phone was pinging around the McStay's house.

That's news to me. From what source did you hear this?

 

[Mica]

Lol. Maline said a lot of things but it doesn't make it factual.

As I said, wish either side would produce the evidence. I haven’t seen any convincing evidence proving DK was or wasn’t in HI on the 4th thru the 6th.

 

[la2cabo]

As I said, wish either side would produce the evidence. I haven’t seen any convincing evidence proving DK was or wasn’t in HI on the 4th thru the 6th.

I agree, it definitely needs to be put to bed one way or another.

 

[katydid23]

The way I see this case is if the prosecution wants to send a person to death row they need to have their ducks in a row, their t’s crossed and i’s dotted. This prosecution has been nothing but smoke and mirrors. IMO, it’s an absolute joke with no viable evidence whatsoever that connects CM to the murders and with a multitude of other suspects, all of which had motive and had stolen from JM. I guarantee that there are some on the jury that feel the same as I do.

Here is the way I see this case.

There is a lot off circumstantial evidence in this case. And sure, the defense team can try and give 'alternative explanations' for each 'brick' in that wall, one by one.

They can assert that Chases's DNA on the Trooper steering wheel, which is more prominent than even Summer's, was actually left there because he possibly shook hands with Joey, during a possible lunch meeting together, days earlier.

And they can assert that the cell pings from Chases's phone was really 40 miles off, and he was actually in a different place altogether.


And they can assert that even though circumstances look very clearly like he was stealing from his boss by creating checks from his boss's QB account, and deleting and backdating and forging, in reality they had just come up with a secret , unconventional new way to handle the business account, just a day or two before Joey and his family were murdered.

And they can assert that even though the truck that was seen leaving the McStay home, right around the time the family was last seen or. heard from, looked on video just like the same exhaust pipe configuration and bumper as Chases's work truck, they say art could be someone else's truck instead.

And they say that even though Chase did have financial issues, and his bank closed his account for insufficient funds for bad checks, and even though he did admit to his girlfriend that he owed Joey thousands of dollars, and even though he had a gambling problem in which he lost thousands of dollars routinely, and he was an Ex-Con convicted of fraud and theft, and Joey had been receiving complaints about Chases' shoddy work and bad business ethics, -------

with ALL of the above, the defense wants us to believe that Joey would voluntarily give this employee full access to an account that held 89 thousand dollars.
And would tell that employee to go ahead and write himself checks for thousands of dollars, and to delete them from the check logs, so Joey wouldn't even have a record of them? And tell him to forge the signature?



SO, it might be possible to TRY and explain away each circumstance, brick by brick. However, for Chase to be innocent, we would have to label him the unluckiest bloke in the High Desert Area.


---We would have to believe that his boss decided, against common sense, to give him the password to his QB account, and tell him they were secretly going to set up a new kind of accounting system.
UNFORTUNATELY for Chase, this new accounting system was going to look just like embezzlement.

---And we would have to believe that this new accounting system, which inexplicably does not account for written checks, and which is illegal because of the forgery, was Joey's idea.
But unfortunately for Chase, this new system, which looks like embezzlement, went into play right before Joey went missing.

And then, to continue the bad luck for Chase, whoever backed their truck into the McStay driveway the night of the murders, used a truck that looked exactly like Chases. Unfortunately the truck that looked just like his was caught on surveillance by the neighbour, leaving the driveway on the night of the killings.


And the bad luck keeps coming. whomever buried the bodies did so in Chases's childhood stomping grounds. So unfortunately, the area he knew very well , and where he had a lot of family,
showed up on his cell ping records when police searched them. Unfortunately for Chase, his alibi for when his cell was pinging by the burial site, was that he was visiting his sister. Even more unfortunate for him, she was so strung out and drooling after surgery, that she told detectives he hadn't been to her house in years, ruining his alibi.

To top off all that amazingly bad luck, whomever drove the Trooper to the border and dumped it,
was not able to cover Chase's trace DNA with their own. That must have been a very long, strong handshake. Unfortunately for Chase, that innocent handshake with Joey, left trace DNA on the Trooper steering wheel and gear shift.

And to make things worse, his boss had just sent him a memo, notating the amount of money that Joey had over paid him, making it appear that Chase owed him thousands of dollars. Very unfortunate, given that it made it look like his boss was not planning to pay him any more for awhile, because of the big debt between them--especially when that seemed to be in conflict with the new, unconventional payment arrangement, where Chase could write and delete checks himself now from the account.


There were so many unfortunate circumstances that had to come into play for Chase, if he was an innocent man.

 

[Cricket28]

But CM had no independent knowledge that DK was in Hawaii other than what DK told him. Of course DK is going to be telling anybody that will listen that he wasn't in the area at the time of the murders, he obviously needed to create an alibi. You didn't hear CM doing so because he would have no reason at the time to think he would ever need an alibi.

IIRC CM mentioned DK being in Hawaii during his interview with SDSD on 2/17/10. A few years before it was known that the family was indeed murdered. So needing an alibi wasn't even a concern for DK. IMO. I also doubt that CM's knowledge of DK being in Hawaii came from DK. IMO there was not a lot of communication between those two.

MOO

 

[Texas Red]

Here is the way I see this case.

There is a lot off circumstantial evidence in this case. And sure, the defense team can try and give 'alternative explanations' for each 'brick' in that wall, one by one.

They can assert that Chases's DNA on the Trooper steering wheel, which is more prominent than even Summer's, was actually left there because he possibly shook hands with Joey, during a possible lunch meeting together, days earlier.

And they can assert that the cell pings from Chases's phone was really 40 miles off, and he was actually in a different place altogether.


And they can assert that even though circumstances look very clearly like he was stealing from his boss by creating checks from his boss's QB account, and deleting and backdating and forging, in reality they had just come up with a secret , unconventional new way to handle the business account, just a day or two before Joey and his family were murdered.

And they can assert that even though the truck that was seen leaving the McStay home, right around the time the family was last seen or. heard from, looked on video just like the same gmail pipe configuration and bumper as Chases's work truck, they say art could be someone else's truck instead.

And they say that even though Chase did have financial issues, and his bank closed his account for insufficient funds for bad checks, and even though he did admit to his girlfriend that he owed Joey thousands of dollars, and even though he had a gambling problem in which he lost thousands of dollars routinely, and he was an Ex-Con convicted of fraud and theft, and Joey had been receiving complaints about Chases' shoddy work and bad business ethics, -------

with ALL of the above, the defense wants us to believe that Joey would voluntarily give this employee full access to an account that held 89 thousand dollars.
And would tell that employee to go ahead and write himself checks for thousands of dollars, and to delete them from the check logs, so Joey wouldn't even have a record of them? And tell him to forge the signature?



SO, it might be possible to explain away each circumstance, brick by brick. However, for Chase to be innocent, we would have to label him the unluckiest bloke in the High Desert Area.


---We would have to believe that his boss decided, against common sense, to give him the password to his QB account, and tell him they were secretly going to set up a new kind of accounting system.
UNFORTUNATELY for Chase, this new accounting system was going to look just like embezzlement.

---And we would have to believe that this new accounting system, which inexplicably does not account for written checks, and which is illegal because of the forgery, was Joey's idea.
But unfortunately for Chase, this new system, which looks like embezzlement, went into play right before Joey went missing.

And then, to continue the bad luck for Chase, whoever backed their truck into the McStay driveway the night of the murders, used a truck that looked exactly like Chases. Unfortunately the truck that looked just like his was caught on surveillance by the neighbour, leaving the driveway on the night of the killings.


And the bad luck keeps coming. whomever buried the bodies did so in Chases's childhood stomping grounds. So unfortunately, the area he knew very well , and where he had a lot of family,
showed up on his cell ping records when police searched them. Unfortunately for Chase, his alibi for when his cell was pinging by the burial site, was that he was visiting his sister. Even more unfortunate for him, she was so strung out and drooling after surgery, that she told detectives he hadn't been to her house in years, ruining his alibi.

To top off all that amazingly bad luck, whomever drove the Trooper to the border and dumped it,
was not able to cover Chase's trace DNA with their own. That must have been a very long, strong handshake. Unfortunately for Chase, that innocent handshake with Joey, left trace DNA on the Trooper steering wheel and gear shift.

And to make things worse, his boss had just sent him a memo, notating the amount of money that Chase had over paid him, making it appear that Chase owed him thousands of dollars. Very unfortunate, given that it made it look like his boss was not planning to pay him any more for awhile, because of the big debt between them--especially when that seemed to be in conflict with the new, unconventional payment arrangement, where Chase could write and delete checks himself now from the account.


There were so many unfortunate circumstances that had to come into play for Chase, if he was an innocent man.

See, just like I said, they've got nothin.

 

[Texas Red]

So needing an alibi wasn't even a concern for DK.

Unless, of course DK killed them and knew he needed to establish an alibi before the murders were discovered.

 

[katydid23]

See, just like I said, they've got nothin.

There were so many unfortunate circumstances that had to come into play for Chase, if he was an innocent man.


-UNFORTUNATELY for Chase, his new, secret accounting system was going to look just like embezzlement.


-But unfortunately for Chase, this new system, which looks like embezzlement, went into play right before Joey went missing. and joey didn't tell anyone else...

- Unfortunately a truck that looked just like his was caught on surveillance by the neighbour, leaving the driveway on the night of the killings.

<modsnip - disparaging a family member>

- Unfortunately for Chase, that innocent handshake with Joey, left trace DNA on the Trooper steering wheel and gear shift.

- Very unfortunate, that a new memo made it look like his boss was not planning to pay him any more for awhile, because of the big debt between them--especially when that seemed to be in conflict with the new, unconventional payment arrangement, where Chase could write and delete checks himself now from the account.


There were so many unfortunate circumstances that had to come into play for Chase, if he was an innocent man.

 

[geevee]

geevee... I think that was Mike that they were talking about in regards to the 4th/6th?

RSBM

I really should stop commenting, my memory is failing me badly, thanks for the correction, Missy.

 

[Frankie Hellis]

Snip

Court records show Kavanaugh had trouble with the law in the years after the McStays disappeared.

Kavanaugh pleaded guilty in San Diego Superior Court in two, separate domestic violence cases involving altercations with girlfriends, records show.

In August 2011, Kavanaugh was charged with five misdemeanor counts (in case # M134711DV).

According to a 2013 probation report obtained by CBS News 8:

On 8/1/2011 at 2:44 a.m. officers were called to **** Riveria Drive in San Diego. They heard a woman screaming from the second story of the apartment complex… The defendant (Kavanaugh) came downstairs and let officers in. Officers found the defendant's girlfriend, ****** ******* in the bedroom crying. She had abrasions on both knees.

She said the defendant pulled her out of the car and onto the ground, causing the abrasions to her knees.

Kavanaugh pleaded guilty to a single, misdemeanor count: battery of a current or former significant other, and received three years probation.

In July 2013, Kavanaugh was charged with felony domestic violence (in case # SCD249328).

Probation officers filed a sentencing report that described the incident, which occurred July 5, 2013 at 12:30 a.m.:

More at link.. McStay murder mystery: Who is Dan Kavanaugh?

Thank you very much. This puts it in context and makes it not nearly as nefarious as I first thought.

 

[Cricket28]

Here is the way I see this case.

And to make things worse, his boss had just sent him a memo, notating the amount of money that Chase had over paid him, making it appear that Chase owed him thousands of dollars. Very unfortunate, given that it made it look like his boss was not planning to pay him any more for awhile, because of the big debt between them--especially when that seemed to be in conflict with the new, unconventional payment arrangement, where Chase could write and delete checks himself now from the account.

There were so many unfortunate circumstances that had to come into play for Chase, if he was an innocent man.

RSBM
Very well said! Bravo!
(BTW, see where I highlighted Chase's name in red in your post... I think you meant to say Joey?)

 

[MsRyber]

But Maline told the judge today that the defense theory is that Dan created those checks, not Chase.

So if you are siding with the defense theory that Dan murdered the family, that ^^^ is part of the theory.

And just adding to that, why wouldn't CM sell out DK the second he was charged? "DK made me do it" would have certainly made LE take a closer look at DK. But no, CM chose to try to represent himself, then get lawyers, etc. What's the "reasonableness" in that? Surely a conviction for theft from a business isn't nearly the stakes as quadruple murder.
CM had everything to gain by pointing the finger at DK immediately. Why didn't he? Because he knows DK is computer savvy, and CM isn't. He proved that by the QB screw-ups. He obviously didn't know that the QB audit trail tracks the user to every action. So he had no way of knowing that QB logged his creation/print/delete of the cheques under his login instead of the admin login. He didn't know what JM and DK had as far as emails, conversations, texts with each other. Maybe that is another reason a lot of the text messages were deleted. Maybe that is why JM's phone is missing. Incriminating evidence against CM and not against DK? The laptop might have had more incriminating info. We just don't know. But for every thing that could potentially clear CM (or further incriminate him), it just happens to be missing. If DK did it, and CM knew about it, why on earth wouldn't he save some kind of evidence that directly implicated DK? DNA, blood, another weapon, the allusive futon cover, something with DK's prints on it, anything?
He knew that a computer forensic battle against DK was going to end badly. Why hasn't his lawyer flat out said "we don't believe DK ever went to Hawaii"? The defense is casting theories. But notice they are are skirting it. Why aren't they forceful with their implications? Because they have no proof. Why? Because the person who murdered the family is on trial, and no amount of "maybe DK did it, in the study, with the candlestick" is going to cause enough reasonable doubt to overcome the mountain of circumstantial evidence that currently surrounds him. The DT has created doubt, but not reasonable doubt yet. IMO.

 

[KALI]

Here's hoping the prosecutors read this Katy.
Good one.

Here is the way I see this case.

There is a lot off circumstantial evidence in this case. And sure, the defense team can try and give 'alternative explanations' for each 'brick' in that wall, one by one.

They can assert that Chases's DNA on the Trooper steering wheel, which is more prominent than even Summer's, was actually left there because he possibly shook hands with Joey, during a possible lunch meeting together, days earlier.

And they can assert that the cell pings from Chases's phone was really 40 miles off, and he was actually in a different place altogether.


And they can assert that even though circumstances look very clearly like he was stealing from his boss by creating checks from his boss's QB account, and deleting and backdating and forging, in reality they had just come up with a secret , unconventional new way to handle the business account, just a day or two before Joey and his family were murdered.

And they can assert that even though the truck that was seen leaving the McStay home, right around the time the family was last seen or. heard from, looked on video just like the same exhaust pipe configuration and bumper as Chases's work truck, they say art could be someone else's truck instead.

And they say that even though Chase did have financial issues, and his bank closed his account for insufficient funds for bad checks, and even though he did admit to his girlfriend that he owed Joey thousands of dollars, and even though he had a gambling problem in which he lost thousands of dollars routinely, and he was an Ex-Con convicted of fraud and theft, and Joey had been receiving complaints about Chases' shoddy work and bad business ethics, -------

with ALL of the above, the defense wants us to believe that Joey would voluntarily give this employee full access to an account that held 89 thousand dollars.
And would tell that employee to go ahead and write himself checks for thousands of dollars, and to delete them from the check logs, so Joey wouldn't even have a record of them? And tell him to forge the signature?



SO, it might be possible to TRY and explain away each circumstance, brick by brick. However, for Chase to be innocent, we would have to label him the unluckiest bloke in the High Desert Area.


---We would have to believe that his boss decided, against common sense, to give him the password to his QB account, and tell him they were secretly going to set up a new kind of accounting system.
UNFORTUNATELY for Chase, this new accounting system was going to look just like embezzlement.

---And we would have to believe that this new accounting system, which inexplicably does not account for written checks, and which is illegal because of the forgery, was Joey's idea.
But unfortunately for Chase, this new system, which looks like embezzlement, went into play right before Joey went missing.

And then, to continue the bad luck for Chase, whoever backed their truck into the McStay driveway the night of the murders, used a truck that looked exactly like Chases. Unfortunately the truck that looked just like his was caught on surveillance by the neighbour, leaving the driveway on the night of the killings.


And the bad luck keeps coming. whomever buried the bodies did so in Chases's childhood stomping grounds. So unfortunately, the area he knew very well , and where he had a lot of family,
showed up on his cell ping records when police searched them. Unfortunately for Chase, his alibi for when his cell was pinging by the burial site, was that he was visiting his sister. Even more unfortunate for him, she was so strung out and drooling after surgery, that she told detectives he hadn't been to her house in years, ruining his alibi.

To top off all that amazingly bad luck, whomever drove the Trooper to the border and dumped it,
was not able to cover Chase's trace DNA with their own. That must have been a very long, strong handshake. Unfortunately for Chase, that innocent handshake with Joey, left trace DNA on the Trooper steering wheel and gear shift.

And to make things worse, his boss had just sent him a memo, notating the amount of money that Joey had over paid him, making it appear that Chase owed him thousands of dollars. Very unfortunate, given that it made it look like his boss was not planning to pay him any more for awhile, because of the big debt between them--especially when that seemed to be in conflict with the new, unconventional payment arrangement, where Chase could write and delete checks himself now from the account.


There were so many unfortunate circumstances that had to come into play for Chase, if he was an innocent man.

 

[katydid23]

RSBM

I really should stop commenting, my memory is failing me badly, thanks for the correction, Missy.

Nah, we all have those memory glitches. Keep expressing yourself. We will just keep each other on track...lol

 

[MsRyber]

I think the defense screwed La Rock with only giving him a certain amount of the evidence and not everything. That being said though, he was able to make his point more than once that there was a missing laptop, that it was either never acknowledged or never found by Schroeder and/or LE.

IMO the State would have been better off just acknowledging that there was a missing laptop, Chase stole it... but instead they are trying to deny that it existed? I also mentioned earlier that Imes bringing up the Feb 5th stuff... Schroeder changed his opinion on that, that it was a system scan and not a 'user'.. why bring it up again? silly IMO

On that note... I'm going out to the casino... LOL I won't be long I'm sure haha

Happy Donation Time!

I do agree that the DT could have made more reasonable doubt, but LaRock wasn't given anything to work with. So it comes off as "Sure, Jan" doubt, not really reasonable doubt, imo.

 

[MsRyber]

(Missy's post snipped for length, bbm)

... it's almost like the truth might lie somewhere in between when it comes to the books/cheques. I also don't think they were killed in the house, so it's hard for me to reconcile that with the Mitchley video and the QB's access that night... I have tried all ways I can think of to make it fit LOL

Missy, the way I was able to reconcile it for me was thinking to the Russell Williams trial. Remember when he said during his confession, when he was going to kill Jessica, he said he hit her with the flashlight and he said "her skull just kind of...gave way. I was surprised." He hit her once with a Maglite, and it was enough to make her unconscious and it was likely enough to be fatal without the strangulation.

So when I got to thinking about that, I was able to reconcile a crime scene with closed head injuries (esp the little boys) and not a lot of blood. IMO.

 

[katydid23]

Only the first one on the list makes sense. Focus on the people in JM's circle whom the two little boys would be able to identify. There is, indeed, a multitude of them.

Every One in a father's circle, would know his children and be able to be recognised. That doesn't seem to be a very narrow set of considerations in recognising a possible killer. JMO

 

[Texas Red]

Unfortunately a truck that looked just like his was caught on surveillance by the neighbour, leaving the driveway on the night of the killings.

All I saw was a couple of blurry headlights that were enhanced with a junk science app that could have altered the image into the Queen Mary if they had thought that CM was the skipper.

 

[smr]

Every One in a father's circle, would know his children and be able to be recognised. That doesn't seem to be a very narrow set of considerations in recognising a possible killer. JMO

1. Identifiable by the two boys,
2. Had the most to gain from the deaths of the family
3. Had made threat to JM