CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #3

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mrjitty said:
I then to agree

I wonder if the murderer has not displayed his guilty knowledge in plain sight here.

He got very agitated and schooled his Attorneys on what "really happened".

But why should he be so excited over this point? I get why it may matter but why this of all things?

Is it because he knows precisely what happened and this is his chance to get one over the State?
Click to expand...

Again, because we are not seeing him all the time, we don't know what his reactions are all the time (I wish we did) I actually thought that Maline objected and got his panties in a knot first, Maline was talking to McGee... and so was Merritt, McGee did the cross on that witness, so that somewhat makes sense, I suspect Maline was making sure that McGee made a big deal about the bleach/urine thing.

I didn't follow this case much after he was arrested, but it's my understanding that for a period of time he represented himself. So he thinks he's a lawyer or plays one on tv lol I saw him passing notes to McGee one time when McGee was arguing something to the judge.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
I have a question please.

As the women on the jury sit and closely listen to CMs interview with LE how do you think they feel about his abnormal vindictiveness he displayed against Summer?

Tia

Jmo
Click to expand...

I have not listened to the 2nd day of the interview yet, so I may have to come back and amend this answer...

At the beginning of the interview, when he was just talking to the female detective (Fisk?), he says something about Summer that I couldn't hear, but I did hear Fisk say 'you are not the first person to say that about her'. The shopping thing, I am not sure if that is what you are considering vindictiveness, but if there is truth to it, which we might find out later or not, then I don't know if it's vindictive? Now, what surprised me about some of the things he said about her was... they asked about domestic violence, he said Joey on her, no way... Fisk asks what about her (Summer) against him (Joey)... he says she was only verbal, but no, no. This is where he goes on about corporal punishment and the discussion he had with Summer...he says she is extremely verbal, but not physical and doesn't think she ever would be (based on the discussion they had). They ask about Jonah and how Summer was with him, he says that she loves Johah to death.

Is there more in the second part of the interview from yesterday?

Before this interview, we have heard testimony from Mikey that they had a falling out. We heard from McGyver, who said he got a tongue lashing for going to his wife's baby ultrasound instead of going to help her paint. IMO the jury already knew before this interview that Summer was verbal and was not always that easy to get along with.

I guess I only find it vindictive if it's not true. I am not sure if these things are not true yet though.
 
ohhh was going to go and listen to the 2nd part of the interview from yesterday ... and it's not uploaded yet :( dang!
 
missy1974 said:
Interesting lol I'm guessing earthwire means a ground wire. I do believe our plugs are grounded by code. Will ask my resident expert tomorrow ;-)

The cord actually helps point to it happening in the home IMO they are very common in households and may have been what was handy.

Actually... I have always thought this happened elsewhere... but where else would they be that would have a cord like that handy, other than a home.. hmmm
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........in the storage unit........we have 2- 8 x 40' cargo containers on our property and that's where my contractor husband has a bunch of them, both residential and commercial. When we cleaned out my dad's 12 x 40' storage unit when he died, extension cords.
How about it was just kicking around in one of Chase's truck toolboxes or in the bed? If you've seen some contractor's truck beds, they can be a mess of stuff.
 
Hello...just started following this trial...above says something about private forum...is this still the discussion forum for this trial? I am very concerned that the wrong man may be on trial...that might be a very preliminary feeling and I will change but something very off with "Mikey"
 
oceanblueeyes said:
I have a question please.

As the women on the jury sit and closely listen to CMs interview with LE how do you think they feel about his abnormal vindictiveness he displayed against Summer?

Tia
Jmo
Click to expand...
Hi oceanblueeyes! I don't know that the jurors will have the same sensitivity to criticism of Summer as we have developed over these eight long years, so they may not hear "vindictiveness" (yet), but they must find Merritt's words about her distasteful and disrespectful, especially given the circumstances surrounding that interview. In voicing his bad opinion of the wife of his "best friend" at such a sensitive and critical time, Merritt stomps all over our socially acceptable norms and customs, which shows that he doesn't respect Summer, Joey, their marriage, their family, their privacy, LE, the interview process, or what decent people do and say.

Members of the jury will also wonder if he would be saying such things about his "BFF's" wife if he thought that "BFF" could ever find out what he said, IMO.
 
turaj said:
Hello...just started following this trial...above says something about private forum...is this still the discussion forum for this trial? I am very concerned that the wrong man may be on trial...that might be a very preliminary feeling and I will change but something very off with "Mikey"
Click to expand...

*waves*
Haven't seen you since the McIver trial Turaj, was getting a little concerned. There is a McStay Family forum that is private (in the basement): https://www.websleuths.com/forums/forums/mcstay-family.507/ but the mods gave us an open thread for the trial.
 
missy1974 said:
Interesting lol I'm guessing earthwire means a ground wire. I do believe our plugs are grounded by code. Will ask my resident expert tomorrow ;-)

The cord actually helps point to it happening in the home IMO they are very common in households and may have been what was handy.

Actually... I have always thought this happened elsewhere... but where else would they be that would have a cord like that handy, other than a home.. hmmm
Click to expand...
Since it was Joey, that was bound, the restraining may have taken place at the house or the storage facility. Unfortunately, this doesn’t give us much insight as to where he/they were murdered. However, since an improvised item, an electrical cord was used instead of zip ties suggests that it was not planned or at least things didn’t proceed as planned.
 
I still do not understand why Joey was bound and I definitely believe he was alive when this happened and he beat him when he was tied up.

I understand he hated Summer and had years of built up frustrations on her and by default the way she raised the children and the fact they was a product of Summer meant he loathed them as well.

But I genuinely believe he liked Joey as everybody did. He was just a genuine nice guy so there wasn’t anything to dislike.

I think in his head there was a betrayal of some kind and unless he is is absolutely stark raving mad then it can’t just be about him stealing the money as any human being on earth would react like Joey did. So being fired can’t just have been what set him off as Chase caused himself to get fired.


So why break Joey’s Leg and Rib , why tie him up and more than likely watch him kill his family in front of his eyes?


It’s so frustrating that we will never know what really happened because Chase even if found guilty is such a a horrible person he will never admit the truth.
 
Tortoise said:
I've been through various scenarios with regard to the staining on the pants and I've formed the conclusion that I think it is urine and the ammonia component that over the long period had the same effect as bleach. I don't think we can compare clothing or soft furnishings that have been washed soon after their exposure to urine. Someone posted an article yesterday that showed pet urine on carpets has this bleaching effect if it is left uncleaned for a long period.

I think the photo of the pants shows the following:

The urination happened while Summer was in a seated position.

I've ruled out the following positions:

- standing upright, because the urine wouldn't spread upwards and rearwards through the fabric to her buttocks area. Even if she was standing up and then made to sit down the majority of the urine would have gone wherever it would go by gravity and not be sufficient to make the buttocks area upwards behind her so wet.

- lying on her back or front, because the urine wouldn't run down the entire leg, or even drench the whole length of the leg uniformly, it would pool underneath her on the surface she's lying on.

- lying on her side, because there's again no reason for the urine to run down the leg, and again uniformly, it would soak her whole hip area to the ground, and even if it did soak her whole lower leg with her legs pressed against each other the urine would leach from the drenched lower leg fabric into the upper leg fabric at least slightly.

I think she was seated and then the pants have been pulled off her with the right leg pulled inside the seat area and the left leg of the pants coming off without being pulled inside. So the right leg stayed bunched up inside the pants and the urine soaked into the inside leg fabric that remained touching the wet crotch area of the pants.

If I apply this to the bleach theory I can't think how bleach would be applied in a seated position while she was wearing them. Even if she was made to sit in a pool of bleach I don't think that would spread upwards through the back and the front crotch area of the pants so extensively. And I also don't see what would be the purpose because if the purpose of the bleach is to destroy his DNA because she has been raped her pants were already off.

If I were to theorize further I would say she could have been killed in a seated position (and her bladder expelled its contents) in the house but then there would be a wet chair in the house and she would fall off the chair so I don't think she would have been seated long enough for her bladder to expel that much urine before she went to the floor in a different position. Unless she was bound to the chair, with say painters tape. That is a serious possibility IMO.

Another theory would be that she was kept alive somewhere and was seated (perhaps on the ground) and she either urinated through fear just prior to her death, maybe witnessing the other murders, or because she was just held so many hours that she had no choice but to let her bladder empty.

MOO

Photo of the back of the pants - click to enlarge
View attachment 165830
Click to expand...
I think the prosecution’s dwelling upon this evidence creates speculation and hurts their case. As Furiously_Following, has pointed out, it’s not really conclusive of anything, and even if it was, it doesn’t implicate CM. IMO, they should move on to the financials which can be linked directly to CM, and is quite incriminating. Them spending so much time on something that’s not conclusive makes the prosecution’s case look like it’s nothing more than smoke and mirrors, grasping at straws because they really don’t have a case.
 
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Where is yesterday's footage and what's the deal with today's live stream?
 
oceanblueeyes said:
I have a question please.

As the women on the jury sit and closely listen to CMs interview with LE how do you think they feel about his abnormal vindictiveness he displayed against Summer?

Tia

Jmo
Click to expand...
I shouldn't really comment on this yet because I've only listened to a tiny part of the interview at this time, so I will go off the small clip they played during the opening speech, where he was telling them how many times Summer would say 'stop it' to the boys. Boy, IMO, you could hear the nastiness in his voice, and just that part lets me know that she really got under his skin. He comes across as a petty nasty mean gossip with a chip on his shoulder, and I think he is jealous, because he has a need to take from people and demean people.

What he was saying about Summer from someone who was detached from it could have been expressed as 'she doesn't discipline her kids' or 'I don't think she would harm her kids/family because I've never seen her get riled up when the boys are testing her patience'.

If I contrast that with McGyver, he told it how it was with the ability to laugh about it. That's detachment.

I think anyone, male or female, should be able to detect CM's animosity. I'm not sure if you mean do we think women will be unable to judge the evidence impartially because they are women and may have prejudices?
 
mrjitty said:
I then to agree

I wonder if the murderer has not displayed his guilty knowledge in plain sight here.

He got very agitated and schooled his Attorneys on what "really happened".

But why should he be so excited over this point? I get why it may matter but why this of all things?

Is it because he knows precisely what happened and this is his chance to get one over the State?
Click to expand...
It's pointless because his case is 'I wasn't there, it wasn't me'. So why take issue over whether bleach was used or not? I think they are missing the wood for the trees here and this might have been one big boo-boo in their zeal to prove the State wrong.
 
While I was waiting for the video's to be uploaded, I went back to some other testimony to find some things that have been discussed the last few days:

@mrjitty I think it was yesterday that we were discussing Joey's voicemails and whether they had been deleted, and also whether the information was requested by DuGal.

starts around 19:46

there is a date that's stated but there's also indicators of specifically on Joseph's phone 'hey I just saw the news you're missing what's going on' well if that's the message that indicates that that's from February 15th on that was the second message every other message on Joseph's cell phone kind of related to the business and that time frame from the 15th on because there's multiple people who said something about your missing and the only way they know they're missing from news reports is once I was involved

21:14 of same video

Joseph's cell phone messages were missing. The messages from the time frame prior to February 15 were missing,somehow they were deleted.

cross about voicemails starts at 10:48 of this video:

Joey had 25 voicemails. The mailbox was full.

@ 17:15 DuGal states, I believe there was some, there was a block of messages deleted that should've been there from the dates you're talking about, from Feb 4-15th

@ 20:43 did you ask t-mobile since they gave you the access code, when and if those voicemails were deleted? Dugal: No. Maline: why? Dugal: I don't know.

I was looking for information about the towels but haven't come across that yet. I still do not believe all the towels were missing in the house.
 
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