CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #3

[Edmo]

Does anyone else find the Statute of Limitations ridiculous or is it just me? Violent crimes shouldn’t have one! IMHO
It doesn’t matter when the crime occurred and although we know justice should be swift it should never matter when the crime took place. Ugh

In Calif IT depends on certain crimes. I KNOW Murder is a crime that is NOT timed by Statue of Limitations. The police are able to investigate the crime MANY years later.

 

[Edmo]

I cannot wrap my mind around Chase Merritt cutting off 8 hands.
IT is a worthy discussion however.
What is the likelyhood of animals running off with dead peoples hands?
Not just one body, but four?
If Chase Merritt removed their hands, I think it would have been at the gravesite. Then with what weapon?
And why?
Dental records would probably have identified the victims as well as DNA.
Was he in a crazed frenzy?
Well, yes, obviously he was in a crazed frenzy to have bludgeoned these little boys and there parents to death.
But, would that crazed frenzy last for hours as he drove to the dessert and dug their graves?
Did he Merritt partake in drugs?

From the DNA/Dental Test(s) that identified the 4 remains: JM and Summer were I'd by their siblings/mother/father (cross referenced), both Dental and DNA X Type. The children were then later I"d by their cross reference from JM/Summer/ DNA results 100%.

 

[Edmo]

There is 0 proof CM removed/cut the hands off of ANY victims in the gravesites. Why do we KNOW this: The Coroner/Anthropologist WOULD have testified to cut/tool marks being present on ANY of the victims arms/hands. She conclusively states they were absent.

Being buried in a shallow grave, along with a possible rainy night they were buried, common sense points their bodies could have become exposed to the elements and later collected by starving wildlife, IE: Coyotes, Foxes, Bobcats and whatever else animals are found in that vicinity.

 

[missy1974]

What IS CJ going to testify to? What did the Defense say she would testify to? This just keeps getting better !

I have no clue! I think she will be testifying for the State if she is called at all?

 

[mothwings]

Charles Merritt has a lot of supporters.

All of them say there is not a shred of evidence against the defendant.

Then why would the judge rule there was enough evidence to bring him to trial?

 

[missy1974]

I believe the "ex gf" is referring to Cathy Jarvis, CM's ex gf, right?

No, I mean DK's ex gf lol There was a ruling back in December that she could testify... the State opposed it and in the article that I read, they said "she had credibility issues". (just a heads up... we CANNOT sleuth her, or if you do, it cannot be posted in here, she is not charged and is not a suspect)

Ok, so when they did opening statements... the pool camera dude left early. Cathy streamed some of Maline's OS on her phone on twitter. He mainly talked about DK, well at least what I heard lol

I have put this in here before, but will do it again ... This is what Maline was talking about and this is what was on the overhead screen in the courtroom that the jury was looking at:

Tracey Riccobene

October 26, 2018 went to investigators and defense to give statement.
Dan confessed to her that he murdered the family
Detailed statement
Held one of the boys at knife point to get the family out of the home

DK raped Summer
Wanted revenge against Joseph McStay for cheating him
DK buried the sledgehammer in graves
Was not in Hawaii - DK lied and provided false alibi
DK came back to the house and pretended he was Joseph

Known DK for years - Best Friend
Like a brother to me
Share music in common
Says DK is a genius manipulative mastermind
Full confession 2 weeks ago but had been hinting at it for a longer period of time
She told him to come forward - he refused.

After Riccobene told DK to come forward
He has been threatening her
She is terrified of him
He has no empathy toward other people
She feels it is her duty to come forward even though DK will harm her
Requests witness protection

 

[missy1974]

I believe the "ex gf" is referring to Cathy Jarvis, CM's ex gf, right?

Oh, I thought he was speaking about DK's ex gf. They spoke about her during OS, and put a large overhead projector with a bullet point list of the confession she testified to.

answered in my last post

 

[missy1974]

Charles Merritt has a lot of supporters.

All of them say there is not a shred of evidence against the defendant.

Then why would the judge rule there was enough evidence to bring him to trial?

I have noticed a few vocal supporters in the L&C chat

 

[missy1974]

There is 0 proof CM removed/cut the hands off of ANY victims in the gravesites. Why do we KNOW this: The Coroner/Anthropologist WOULD have testified to cut/tool marks being present on ANY of the victims arms/hands. She conclusively states they were absent.

Being buried in a shallow grave, along with a possible rainy night they were buried, common sense points their bodies could have become exposed to the elements and later collected by starving wildlife, IE: Coyotes, Foxes, Bobcats and whatever else animals are found in that vicinity.

Yeah, I agree, the thought even crossed my mind about feet/shoes. I don't recall at the moment how many or if any foot bones were found. IIRC Summer's leg bones were much whiter than others, and the ME said it was because they were exposed, if her legs were exposed, so were her feet.

 

[tmar]

The Jury Folk going to the site is great.
They will hear CM, a gold surveyor, knows the area.
CM's phone pinging in the area is invaluable.
Besides phone details, cheques, CM continually cheating Joey, CM's hatred of Summer, plus loads more, will all add in providing a Guilty verdict.
MOO.

 

[Whiteorchids]

Off topic, is it me or does Smith resemble Fire Marshall Bill in this screen grab? LOL

He if he had a long curly wig he would look like the cowardly lion in the wizard of oz.

 

[geevee]

Ok, so we are going with, he went there 2 times? Or that the one time he was there, he backed in... moved... backed in again? Why would he do that?

I understand that different conditions are going to create different marks, I don't know if they are going to create different tire width's though? I am hoping that somewhere along the way, we hear an 'expert' or someone that can explain this to the jury (and us)

I am still listening to the testimony. FYI.. the feed even stops on rewind LOL sooooo annoying!

BBM

I'm a few pages back so someone else may have had the same thought in the meantime, but what about him pulling in frontwards the first time to dig the graves with the headlights on so he could see what he was doing, then backing out and pulling in backwards to offload the bodies?

If that sounds too risky (headlights at night), maybe he came in the daytime to dig the graves and then when he came back to bury the bodies, it had rained, causing the spread in the 2nd set of tire tracks?

 

[Force Ten]

I'm sorry, but I watched some of that testimony this week... it did not all go well for the prosecution. IMO

No I get it. I think most people watching, and not just here, feel the prosecution is failing. I'm going with a 'wait and see' attitude. It's a gradual process and when the wheels get greased I think we will know when the train will be rolling over the defense's case. The defense has to fight everything in every minute detail out the gate. They've been doing this before the trial. But Chase Merritt is going down.

 

[katydid23]

No, I mean DK's ex gf lol There was a ruling back in December that she could testify... the State opposed it and in the article that I read, they said "she had credibility issues". (just a heads up... we CANNOT sleuth her, or if you do, it cannot be posted in here, she is not charged and is not a suspect)

Ok, so when they did opening statements... the pool camera dude left early. Cathy streamed some of Maline's OS on her phone on twitter. He mainly talked about DK, well at least what I heard lol

I have put this in here before, but will do it again ... This is what Maline was talking about and this is what was on the overhead screen in the courtroom that the jury was looking at:

Tracey Riccobene

October 26, 2018 went to investigators and defense to give statement.
Dan confessed to her that he murdered the family
Detailed statement
Held one of the boys at knife point to get the family out of the home

DK raped Summer
Wanted revenge against Joseph McStay for cheating him
DK buried the sledgehammer in graves
Was not in Hawaii - DK lied and provided false alibi
DK came back to the house and pretended he was Joseph

Known DK for years - Best Friend
Like a brother to me
Share music in common
Says DK is a genius manipulative mastermind
Full confession 2 weeks ago but had been hinting at it for a longer period of time
She told him to come forward - he refused.

After Riccobene told DK to come forward
He has been threatening her
She is terrified of him
He has no empathy toward other people
She feels it is her duty to come forward even though DK will harm her
Requests witness protection

I really think this witness could be devastating to the state's case.

It helps me understand why they keep pushing DK's name out there, over and over. JMO

 

[mrjitty]

Yes. But I dont think they have to turnover discovery of any rebuttal witness that may be called if the defense puts on their own CIC.

They will have to turn those over only right before rebuttal if the state has witnesses that will rebut what was testified to in the defense case, if they have one,which I believe they will do.

Often in cases I have followed some of the state rebuttal witnesses can become some of the strongest witnesses for the state.

I'm sure the state is already fully prepared to rebut any defense witnesses should the defense put on their own case. I know they are hoping the star witness for the defense will be the defendant himself.

Imo

Thanks Ocean

The procedural aspects I am completely ignorant about as this is my first in depth trial under US/Cali conditions. So good news that the State can rebut, and IMO tactically better to counter attack the defence at that time when they are vulnerable rather than setting up targets right now.

From general principles, the defence cannot merely speculate about DK's involvement.

To create a reasonable doubt they must establish facts sufficient to create an evidential foundation for the real possibility that DK did the murders without any CM involvement.

In my highly overvalued opinion, mere speculation about DK's "Hawaii alibi" is not sufficient. Defence requires actual proof he may have been in the State on or around 4 feb as a minimum starting point. Even if they have that, they require some evidence that connects DK to the murders. Obviously the alleged confession is one point. But do they have anything which actually connects DK to the murders?

So far I have not seen one piece of evidence.

 

[katydid23]

Thanks Ocean

The procedural aspects I am completely ignorant about as this is my first in depth trial under US/Cali conditions. So good news that the State can rebut, and IMO tactically better to counter attack the defence at that time when they are vulnerable rather than setting up targets right now.

From general principles, the defence cannot merely speculate about DK's involvement.

To create a reasonable doubt they must establish facts sufficient to create an evidential foundation for the real possibility that DK did the murders without any CM involvement.

In my highly overvalued opinion, mere speculation about DK's "Hawaii alibi" is not sufficient. Defence requires actual proof he may have been in the State on or around 4 feb as a minimum starting point. Even if they have that, they require some evidence that connects DK to the murders. Obviously the alleged confession is one point. But do they have anything which actually connects DK to the murders?

So far I have not seen one piece of evidence.

The difficult situation for the prosecution, in my opinion, is that some of the reasons they cite for accusing Chase, also exist for DK.

Chase stole from Joey. >>>So did DK.

Joey was going to fire Chase. >>>Joey fired DK already and was in process of buying him out.

Chase was angry with Joey and Summer.>>> So was DK.

In fact, DK had threatened Joey, IIRC. I believe there is written evidence of those threats.

So if the defense can show that DK lied about his Hawaiian alibi, that would be quite damning evidence. That would show consciousness of guilt that he needed to manufacture that alibi.

Add to that, detailed, emotional witness testimony, from an ex girlfriend, who claims to be frightened of DK because of all the things he told her when he confessed to killing the family...

I think that would be a large vat of reasonable doubt.


The most damning evidence against Chase is the Quickbook checks on the 4th and 5th. I hope it can overcome the weight of the doubt being created by DK's behavior/history.

 

[mrjitty]

These two defense attorneys are a perfect example of why defense attorneys overall are detested so much.

Just think about it.... this defense team already knows there is nothing linking DK as having any involvement in the murders yet they want to accuse him of murder when they know all of the evidence points solely to CM. To do this so recklessly without any regard for the truth they have to be morally corrupt to be capable of doing so. imo.

Agreed.

I am old school. There is a difference between doing a good job for your client, and actively misleading or deceiving the Court.

I was livid when Maline put the financial statements on the overhead during the Sequeida testimony.

The witness has already testified that he has nothing to do with finances and saw no cheques.

Yet he is then crossed on financial documents? This is pure BS

 

[mrjitty]

The difficult situation for the prosecution, in my opinion, is that some of the reasons they cite for accusing Chase, also exist for DK.

Chase stole from Joey. >>>So did DK.

Just working through these one at a time. Has this actually been shown? I think we need to be very careful. For instance from what I understand DK must have had paypal Authority. And as far as I can see he submitted a paypal request on the face of the record, rather than creating any fraudulent documents. So if he had the lawful authority to authorise the payment this is not criminal in my view, though may well have lead to civil liability. So for instance, if he suspected Joey might have been murdered, and thus decided to action the disputed sum while he still could - this is in my view completely stupid but we can't assume stealing, IMO.

Joey was going to fire Chase. >>>Joey fired DK already and was in process of buying him out.

Agree

Chase was angry with Joey and Summer.>>> So was DK.

In fact, DK had threatened Joey, IIRC. I believe there is written evidence of those threats.

Trouble I have with this is that the threats appeared to be to 404 the site or remove SEO backlinks.

While I agree this is damaging to a business partnership, these are not unusual threats for web suppliers to make when owed money.

I have done it in 2018 myself as a last resort because it is the only leverage you have to getting paid. Indeed this is why as hosts we keep the keys to the crown jewels whenever we can! If you read Joey's long email to his webhost, in his own words, he outlines his intention to end the business partnership for largely strategic reasons. I happen to agree with Joey's reasons, but I also have a great deal of sympathy for DK in that situation and I think it is is no way clear that Joey did not in fact owe DK a reasonable payout to end the relationship.

In my opinion DK got outmaneuvered by Joey because he was too naive. In the end the SEO was the entire sales pipeline and DK controlled it. That was his leverage to achieve a favourable exit. And why should he not get his best exit?

So if the defense can show that DK lied about his Hawaiian alibi, that would be quite damning evidence. That would show consciousness of guilt that he needed to manufacture that alibi.

If.

I suspect the Hawaii evidence is going to be rather like the graveside knife. Something speculated into existence.

Add to that, detailed, emotional witness testimony, from an ex girlfriend, who claims to be frightened of DK because of all the things he told her when he confessed to killing the family...

I think that would be a large vat of reasonable doubt.

I agree if this witness is credible, that will be reasonable doubt. But will the witness provide details that check out? Or will it just be a wild accusation?

The most damning evidence against Chase is the Quickbook checks on the 4th and 5th. I hope it can overcome the weight of the doubt being created by DK's behavior/history.

Agreed.

Chase displayed knowledge of the time of death. The case against his is overwhelming IMO

 

[Niner]

Thursday, January 31st:
*Trial continues (Day 15) (@ 9:30am PT) - CA - McStay Family: Joseph (40), Summer (43), Gianni (4) & Joey Jr (3) (Feb. 4, 2010, Fallbrook; found Nov. 11, 2013) - *Charles "Chase" Ray Merritt (57/now 60) arrested (11/5/14) & indicted (11/7/14) of 4 counts of murder with special circumstance; plead not guilty. DP case.
12 jurors & 6 alternates were finalized on Tuesday (12/11/18). 8 women & 4 men, while the alternates include 4 men & 2 women. Trial started 1/7/19. Dark on Fridays.
Skipping Day 1 thru 6 – reference post #1180 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #2
1/16/19 Day 7: State witnesses: Det. Troy DuGal. Denys Williams, a forensic evidence technician for San Diego County, now retired, since 2014. Trial continues on 1/17.
1/17/19 Day 8: State witnesses: Denys Williams, retired evidence technician with San Diego Co. She took photos inside the McStay home. Joe Sequeida, employee from Metro Sheet Metal. Dark on Fridays, continues on Tuesday, 1/22, as Monday the 21st is a holiday.
1/22/19 Day 9: State witnesses: Joe Sequeida, from Metro Sheet Metal. John Bluth, is the motorcycle rider that found the human skull and called police. Sgt. Gary Hart. is with the San Bernadino Sheriff's dept. At the time of this investigation he was a detective. After jurors released for break, one atty (Maline) was scolded by judge for being 20 min late to court for third time. Sgt. Armando Avila (subject to recall), was a detective in the homicide for San Bernardino County at the time the remains were found. Trial continues on 1/23 and will be from 9:30am to 12:30pm.
1/23/19 Day 10: State witnesses: Dr. Alexis Grey, forensic anthropologist. The state will now play the police interrogation video of Merritt of 2/17/10 (DuGal's interview). Trial continues on 1/24.
1/24/19 Day 11: Judge announces there will be no court on Monday, Feb 4 & possible late start on Feb 5. They are back to playing the Audi interview of CM, on Feb 17th. State witnesses: Heatherly Radeleff, San Bernardino Sheriff's Lead Crime Scene Specialist. Det. Edward Bachman, lead investigator San Bernardino County. Trial dark on Fridays, trial continues on 1/28.
1/28/19 Day 12: State witnesses: Susan Heckaman, worked for Geis Construction. Jeffrey Martin, Martin's company (Geis Construction) did business with McStay's company. Dr. Chanikarn Changsri, medical examiner. Trial continues 1/29.

1/29/19 Day 13: State witnesses: Elva Fonseca, used to work for Merritt. Joseph Steers, was a detective with SDSD. Diana Wright, FBI forensic examiner. Sergeant Ryan Smith, lead detective. Field trip tomorrow for the jury, they will not be in court No court tomorrow (1/30). Trial resumes Thursday morning (1/31).
1/30/19 Day 14: Jurors visit Fallbrook house & grave site. Trial continues 1/31.

 

[mrjitty]

The procedural submissions and general dressing down from the Judge at the end of this session include the revelation that in 2013 CM googled how to change his identity (around 57mins)

We are getting a witness on this.