CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #3

[Tricia]

On Feb 4th, 2010 the McStay Family, Joey, Summer, Gianni, and Joseph Jr vanished from their home. It looked like the family simply got up and left their home never to return.

Law Enforcement was convinced that the McStay family ran away to Mexico.

Patrick McStay, Joey's father, along with other loved ones knew there was no way Joey and his family would never flee to Mexico. There was no reason for this scenario presented by law enforcement.

Up until the remains of the family were found buried in the desert on November 11, 2013, Patrick McStay searched for his son and his family.

Family friend Chase Merritt was arrested for the McStay family murders on Nov 7th, 2014 and finally, Merritt's first-degree murder trial is underway.

The McStay forum is in our private section. However, we are making the discussion of the trial public.

Link to prior threads
#1 CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010

 

[Niner]

Wednesday, January 16th:
*Trial continues (Day 7) (@ 9:30am PT) - CA - McStay Family: Joseph (40), Summer (43), Gianni (4) & Joey Jr (3) (Feb. 4, 2010, Fallbrook; found Nov. 11, 2013) - *Charles "Chase" Ray Merritt (57/now 60) arrested (11/5/14) & indicted (11/7/14) of 4 counts of murder with special circumstance; plead not guilty. DP case.
12 jurors & 6 alternates were finalized on Tuesday (12/11/18). 8 women & 4 men, while the alternates include 4 men & 2 women. Dec. 19 hearing will focus on evidence & details about possible jury visits to the both the desert grave sites & the McStay family home in Fallbrook. Trial to start 1/7/19.
1/7/19 Day 1: Judge will allow live stream of trial. Judge gives jurors initial instructions. Judge not happy with the number of cameras in the courtroom. Opening statements are done. Trial continues 1/8.
1/8/19 Day 2: State witnesses: Susan Blake (Joseph's mother). Michael McStay (Joseph’s brother). Trial continues on 1/9.
1/9/19 Day 3: Prosecutor tells the judge Mike McStay doesn't want to be shown on camera today. Judge denies request. State witnesses: Jennifer Michley (or Mitchley), former Fallbrook neighbor of the McStays, she is now from out of state. Michael McStay. Trial continues on 1/10.
1/10/19 Day 4: State witnesses: Michael McStay (subject to recall). Bruce Carter, He was security for the San Jacinto Shopping Center mall where the McStay's Isuzu Trooper was towed from on the Mexico Border town of San Ysidro. David Jackson. Jackson worked for the last witness. He was a security guard at the parking where vehicle was owed from. Kathleen Conwell, in 2010 she was an animal control officer for San Diego County. Sgt. Michael Tingley, San Diego Co. Sheriff's Office. In 2010, he was a patrol deputy for the Fallbrook area. Trial continues on Monday, 1/14. Will be dark on Fridays.
1/14/19 Day 5: State witnesses: Jeffrey "McGyver" McCargar (he was friends with Joseph & Summer. He introduced them). Det. Troy DuGal, from San Diego Sheriff's office. Tomorrow 1/15 trial will go from 9:30am to 12 noon, as a juror has an appointment.
1/15/19 Day 6: State witness: Ret. Detective Troy DuGal. Trial continues on 1/16.



Am I spelling the detective's name correctly? Is it DuGal or Dugal - ?? The tweeter person has DuGal.

 

[Harmony 2]

Hi everyone!
Please continue discussion on this thread.

 

[Furiously_Following]

Anyone with children or elderly bed wetters should be able to attest (and pet owners) that urine does NOT bleach out bedding, pajamas, or accident spots on carpet. I have experience with nursing home patients who have even wet their recliners.
I've also dealt with children and pets urine. Even if I bag the items to launder later, it has NEVER discolored fabric or "bleached" items.

 

[Furiously_Following]

Also, when I've located pet urine in an obscure area, no telling how long it's been there...still no "bleaching"

 

[Furiously_Following]

Wednesday, January 16th:
*Trial continues (Day 7) (@ 9:30am PT) - CA - McStay Family: Joseph (40), Summer (43), Gianni (4) & Joey Jr (3) (Feb. 4, 2010, Fallbrook; found Nov. 11, 2013) - *Charles "Chase" Ray Merritt (57/now 60) arrested (11/5/14) & indicted (11/7/14) of 4 counts of murder with special circumstance; plead not guilty. DP case.
12 jurors & 6 alternates were finalized on Tuesday (12/11/18). 8 women & 4 men, while the alternates include 4 men & 2 women. Dec. 19 hearing will focus on evidence & details about possible jury visits to the both the desert grave sites & the McStay family home in Fallbrook. Trial to start 1/7/19.
1/7/19 Day 1: Judge will allow live stream of trial. Judge gives jurors initial instructions. Judge not happy with the number of cameras in the courtroom. Opening statements are done. Trial continues 1/8.
1/8/19 Day 2: State witnesses: Susan Blake (Joseph's mother). Michael McStay (Joseph’s brother). Trial continues on 1/9.
1/9/19 Day 3: Prosecutor tells the judge Mike McStay doesn't want to be shown on camera today. Judge denies request. State witnesses: Jennifer Michley (or Mitchley), former Fallbrook neighbor of the McStays, she is now from out of state. Michael McStay. Trial continues on 1/10.
1/10/19 Day 4: State witnesses: Michael McStay (subject to recall). Bruce Carter, He was security for the San Jacinto Shopping Center mall where the McStay's Isuzu Trooper was towed from on the Mexico Border town of San Ysidro. David Jackson. Jackson worked for the last witness. He was a security guard at the parking where vehicle was owed from. Kathleen Conwell, in 2010 she was an animal control officer for San Diego County. Sgt. Michael Tingley, San Diego Co. Sheriff's Office. In 2010, he was a patrol deputy for the Fallbrook area. Trial continues on Monday, 1/14. Will be dark on Fridays.
1/14/19 Day 5: State witnesses: Jeffrey "McGyver" McCargar (he was friends with Joseph & Summer. He introduced them). Det. Troy DuGal, from San Diego Sheriff's office. Tomorrow 1/15 trial will go from 9:30am to 12 noon, as a juror has an appointment.
1/15/19 Day 6: State witness: Ret. Detective Troy DuGal. Trial continues on 1/16.



Am I spelling the detective's name correctly? Is it DuGal or Dugal - ?? The tweeter person has DuGal.

He spelled it for court reporter as Du capital G al.

 

[ehenson88]

Anyone with children or elderly bed wetters should be able to attest (and pet owners) that urine does NOT bleach out bedding, pajamas, or accident spots on carpet. I have experience with nursing home patients who have even wet their recliners.
I've also dealt with children and pets urine. Even if I bag the items to launder later, it has NEVER discolored fabric or "bleached" items.

That is definitely bleach by the splash pattern. I'm not sure how you could wet yourself and get the urine to go down your pants leg and also spread out sideways across the pants leg like that. It's impossible!! It would either be a straight stream going down if you were standing up pissing yourself or a pool around the crotch area if lying down. In my opinion this bleach was poured on her while she was already down and legs had to be splayed apart as one pants leg is void of bleach, starting in the crotch area and continued to pour along the leg. Imo this is the opposite side of the pour, as it dripped down the thigh and dried..i dont see how it could have dried like that unless she was wearing them at the time

 

[Bernina]

That is definitely bleach by the splash pattern. I'm not sure how you could wet yourself and get the urine to go down your pants leg and also spread out sideways across the pants leg like that. It's impossible!! It would either be a straight stream going down if you were standing up pissing yourself or a pool around the crotch area if lying down. In my opinion this bleach was poured on her while she was already down and legs had to be splayed apart as one pants leg is void of bleach, starting in the crotch area and continued to pour along the leg. Imo this is the opposite side of the pour, as it dripped down the thigh and dried..i dont see how it could have dried like that unless she was wearing them at the time

What if CM surprised SM at the door and she happened to be holding an open bottle of bleach?

I believe Joey was incapacitated/killed at the storage unit, and CM drove JM's vehicle back to the McStay house, surprised Summer, threatened to harm the children if she didn't cooperate, *possibly raped Summer*, got them in whatever vehicle, *possibly raped Summer at the grave site*, and killed them at the grave site.
Wasn't JM at the bottom of the one grave (1st body/kill) and then the others dropped on top or in the other grave?
There's been no verified blood evidence at the home.......

 

[missy1974]

Anyone with children or elderly bed wetters should be able to attest (and pet owners) that urine does NOT bleach out bedding, pajamas, or accident spots on carpet. I have experience with nursing home patients who have even wet their recliners.
I've also dealt with children and pets urine. Even if I bag the items to launder later, it has NEVER discolored fabric or "bleached" items.

I suspect we will hear more about this later. The defense put it out there, they better have some sort of explanation!!!

 

[missy1974]

That is definitely bleach by the splash pattern. I'm not sure how you could wet yourself and get the urine to go down your pants leg and also spread out sideways across the pants leg like that. It's impossible!! It would either be a straight stream going down if you were standing up pissing yourself or a pool around the crotch area if lying down. In my opinion this bleach was poured on her while she was already down and legs had to be splayed apart as one pants leg is void of bleach, starting in the crotch area and continued to pour along the leg. Imo this is the opposite side of the pour, as it dripped down the thigh and dried..i dont see how it could have dried like that unless she was wearing them at the time

Posting the photo of the sweatpants again since the other thread closed.

I was trying to figure out how the stain could get there too, it's hard to say, how do you get it to go down the leg, but yet not on the other leg if standing. IIRC in the testimony, she said that one leg was bunched up, I wonder if it's possible that the leg that has the big stain was what was bunched up and it was just transferred that way?

The thought that bleach could have been used to hide evidence of a rape.. I don't think that is the case, her pants were off, she wasn't raped with her pants on (if she was) IMO. I really don't know what the explanation is here. And I'm not even sure we know for sure that it was bleach stains on the carpet in the home. I'm going to go back and watch the Equeesearch video's and see if they have video of that living room ;-)

 

[ehenson88]

Maybe in the struggle with her (we know it appears she put up a fight) he himself got cut or somehow injured (he did have a cut on his hand) and it transferred onto her clothing or he was afraid it had. It seems he went to great lengths to make sure the stuff in the Graves didn't have any of his DNA on it (he even cleaned up the murder weapon) , so maybe the bleach pour was an attempt to destroy his own blood. he probably didn't want to undress her or transport her nude. This could also explain why she was found nude. Maybe once he got the body there he thought about taking her clothes just to make sure, but in the end changed his mind for some reason.

 

[Force Ten]

Posting the photo of the sweatpants again since the other thread closed.

I was trying to figure out how the stain could get there too, it's hard to say, how do you get it to go down the leg, but yet not on the other leg if standing. IIRC in the testimony, she said that one leg was bunched up, I wonder if it's possible that the leg that has the big stain was what was bunched up and it was just transferred that way?

The thought that bleach could have been used to hide evidence of a rape.. I don't think that is the case, her pants were off, she wasn't raped with her pants on (if she was) IMO. I really don't know what the explanation is here. And I'm not even sure we know for sure that it was bleach stains on the carpet in the home. I'm going to go back and watch the Equeesearch video's and see if they have video of that living room ;-)

So one leg was "bunched up". I missed that but it's interesting and it fits in with my theory. We have to look at the totality of Summer, her bludgeoning and after death. In the photo these pants appear to be the front portion? And the bra cup was with the paint drip was the right? Chase is left handed so he would have struck Summer in the right side portion of her head causing her to fall on her left side as he continued to bash her face and skull in. When you expire your bowels release everything because the heart controls those organs. So naturally her bladder would empty and gravity takes it's course, running down the left side of her inner thigh and eventually soaking her left pant leg. Chase sees this as it puddles and realizes this is a problem. He pulls off the left side first from the pant cuff, then the left starting at the waist because he thinks maybe that's easier. This would cause the bunching up. At some point after this, Chase begins to clean and then paint.

It's hard for me to accept the bleaching theory because of the pattern. Is the prosecution proposing that Chase simply poured bleach on the pants while bunched up? Wouldn't it be more effective if he put them in a bucket of bleach? Wouldn't it permeate throughout the pants?

Something else that has always bothered me was the presence of Lil' Joseph's backpack. It has been long believed by many that the family was killed while Summer may have been bathing the children. Maybe they were 'interrupted' during but I don't know about being killed. The backpack should not be in the grave if we go with the state's narrative that the family was killed in the home. It's so out of place. The backpack presents a sort of story. Most of my kids when they were Joseph and Gianni's age had their favorites. Most of the time, for the life of me, I could not figure out the fondness of particular items they became attached to, but they did. Those items went everywhere we went. And different ages had different things. But they had to have them every time we went somewhere. Every damn time.

I know this fact because I have little ones who were the same ages as Joseph and Gianni - Dora the Explorer (and her backpack) were hugely popular at the time of the disappearance. I don't believe those boys (at least) left that home deceased.

 

[missy1974]

@Force Ten the photo of the sweatpants that I posted, I believe it was the back of the pants, the front had less staining. The thought did cross my mind after the defense asked about urine, that it's possible that the blows caused such pain that it could have caused her to pee. I say this as a woman, slightly older than Summer was at the time, and I have kids, it can mess with our bodies! I would imagine from the injuries we know of, that even without age/kids, this could be possible. I was trying to find a respectful way to say this. Poor Summer.

 

[Force Ten]

I'm just now starting the interrogation part. Chase almost immediately puts his folded hands to his head, head down, when asked about Jonah and then throughout. Is this a guilt, that Jonah is without his dad now?

 

[mrjitty]

So looking at the cord around Joey - i always assumed this was a standard domestic extension cord.

But it looks like 2 ply flex cable?

Seems like more the kind of thing an electrical contractor would have than would be lying around the home. I actually just brought the 3 ply version of this cable which can be used to run electricity behind skirting board. The other place I'd expect to find this sort of cable, with socket etc, is for machinery running on mains power.

e.g a fountain pump?

I also thought about the DIY aspect but were they doing their own rewiring? And this has a custom socket - not like what you find in your wall.

I think the cord was a handle to carry the body and I think it was the kind of thing the murderer had lying around at his "interim storage" for the bodies.

 

[Niner]

Update in red.

*Trial continues (Day 11) (@ 9:30am PT) - CA - McStay Family: Joseph (40), Summer (43), Gianni (4) & Joey Jr (3) (Feb. 4, 2010, Fallbrook; found Nov. 11, 2013) - *Charles "Chase" Ray Merritt (57/now 60) arrested (11/5/14) & indicted (11/7/14) of 4 counts of murder with special circumstance; plead not guilty. DP case.
12 jurors & 6 alternates were finalized on Tuesday (12/11/18). 8 women & 4 men, while the alternates include 4 men & 2 women. Trial started 1/7/19.
Skipping Day 1 thru 6 – reference post #1180 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #2
1/16/19 Day 7: State witnesses: Det. Troy DuGal. Denys Williams, a forensic evidence technician for San Diego County, now retired, since 2014. Trial continues on 1/17.
1/17/19 Day 8: State witnesses: Denys Williams, retired evidence technician with San Diego Co. She took photos inside the McStay home. Joe Sequeida, employee from Metro Sheet Metal. Dark on Fridays, continues on Tuesday, 1/22, as Monday the 21st is a holiday.
1/22/19 Day 9: State witnesses: Joe Sequeida, from Metro Sheet Metal. John Bluth, is the motorcycle rider that found the human skull and called police. Sgt. Gary Hart. is with the San Bernadino Sheriff's dept. At the time of this investigation he was a detective. After jurors released for break, one atty (Maline) was scolded by judge for being 20 min late to court for third time. Sgt. Armando Avila (subject to recall), was a detective in the homicide for San Bernardino County at the time the remains were found. Trial continues on 1/23 and will be from 9:30am to 12:30pm.
1/23/19 Day 10: State witnesses: Dr. Alexis Grey, forensic anthropologist. The state will now play the police interrogation video of Merritt of 2/17/10 (DuGal's interview). Trial continues on 1/24.
1/24/19 Day 11: Judge announces there will be no court on Monday, Feb 4 & possible late start on Feb 5. They are back to playing the Audi interview of CM, on Feb 17th. State witnesses: Heatherly Radeleff, San Bernardino Sheriff's Lead Crime Scene Specialist. Det. Edward Bachman, lead investigator San Bernardino County. Trial dark on Fridays, trial continues on 1/28.


If I missed a witness - please let me know.

 

[missy1974]

So looking at the cord around Joey - i always assumed this was a standard domestic extension cord.

But it looks like 2 ply flex cable?

Seems like more the kind of thing an electrical contractor would have than would be lying around the home. I actually just brought the 3 ply version of this cable which can be used to run electricity behind skirting board. The other place I'd expect to find this sort of cable, with socket etc, is for machinery running on mains power.

e.g a fountain pump?

I also thought about the DIY aspect but were they doing their own rewiring? And this has a custom socket - not like what you find in your wall.

I think the cord was a handle to carry the body and I think it was the kind of thing the murderer had lying around at his "interim storage" for the bodies.

The cord looked like a basic white indoor extension cord that many households would have, IMO. The female end of it was found outside the grave. These are not meant for heavy machinery, my husband is an electrician, and knowing what he allows us to plug into what, I don't think he would recommend it ;-) I can ask him tomorrow though and see what his opinion is of the cord

A link to a photo of the female end: Cathy Russon on Twitter

I agree with you, my thought about the cord was that it was used to help aid in moving the body.

 

[mrjitty]

So one leg was "bunched up". I missed that but it's interesting and it fits in with my theory. We have to look at the totality of Summer, her bludgeoning and after death. In the photo these pants appear to be the front portion? And the bra cup was with the paint drip was the right? Chase is left handed so he would have struck Summer in the right side portion of her head causing her to fall on her left side as he continued to bash her face and skull in. When you expire your bowels release everything because the heart controls those organs. So naturally her bladder would empty and gravity takes it's course, running down the left side of her inner thigh and eventually soaking her left pant leg. Chase sees this as it puddles and realizes this is a problem. He pulls off the left side first from the pant cuff, then the left starting at the waist because he thinks maybe that's easier. This would cause the bunching up. At some point after this, Chase begins to clean and then paint.

It's hard for me to accept the bleaching theory because of the pattern. Is the prosecution proposing that Chase simply poured bleach on the pants while bunched up? Wouldn't it be more effective if he put them in a bucket of bleach? Wouldn't it permeate throughout the pants?

Something else that has always bothered me was the presence of Lil' Joseph's backpack. It has been long believed by many that the family was killed while Summer may have been bathing the children. Maybe they were 'interrupted' during but I don't know about being killed. The backpack should not be in the grave if we go with the state's narrative that the family was killed in the home. It's so out of place. The backpack presents a sort of story. Most of my kids when they were Joseph and Gianni's age had their favorites. Most of the time, for the life of me, I could not figure out the fondness of particular items they became attached to, but they did. Those items went everywhere we went. And different ages had different things. But they had to have them every time we went somewhere. Every damn time.

I know this fact because I have little ones who were the same ages as Joseph and Gianni - Dora the Explorer (and her backpack) were hugely popular at the time of the disappearance. I don't believe those boys (at least) left that home deceased.

I agree its an interesting theory re the backpack.

Counterpoint is why are all the towels missing? I am wondering if the alternate explanation is that a terrified child got the backpack himself and put it on?

I think we can safely assume Joey was killed or incapacitated first. But maybe he terrorised summer and the kids for some time.

e.g did he send the kids to a different room while he raped and murdered summer? Having them still alive and making threats about them could have been a method for keeping her quiet.

I know this sounds sick but it is also quite possible he raped summer posthumously - this happens a lot

 

[mrjitty]

The cord looked like a basic white indoor extension cord that many households would have, IMO. The female end of it was found outside the grave. These are not meant for heavy machinery, my husband is an electrician, and knowing what he allows us to plug into what, I don't think he would recommend it ;-) I can ask him tomorrow though and see what his opinion is of the cord

A link to a photo of the female end: Cathy Russon on Twitter

I agree with you, my thought about the cord was that it was used to help aid in moving the body.

Now I see my mistake - I forgot the US uses non-earthed cables compared to Europe.

What was driving my thinking is that the cable is only 2 ply, in the flat flex style - that means no earth wire! In the modern euro, UK or NZ household, for a very long time now, we see cables with 3 wires inside (i.e with an earthwire) and almost exclusively round.

e.g. i recently bought an antique lamp and it had 2 ply from the olden days - i have to rewire it as it is completely illegal.

But I forgot the US allows these cables and i was able to google a similar one on Walmart.

So my bad.

 

[missy1974]

I agree its an interesting theory re the backpack.

Counterpoint is why are all the towels missing? I am wondering if the alternate explanation is that a terrified child got the backpack himself and put it on?

I think we can safely assume Joey was killed or incapacitated first. But maybe he terrorised summer and the kids for some time.

e.g did he send the kids to a different room while he raped and murdered summer? Having them still alive and making threats about them could have been a method for keeping her quiet.

I know this sounds sick but it is also quite possible he raped summer posthumously - this happens a lot

about the towels.... I don't think they were all missing, I think they were unable to match the pattern or design of the towel to any of the towels in the home. I will make a note of this and will see what I can find tomorrow on our "off" day, I think it was in DuGal's testimony.