CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #3

[missy1974]

Now I see my mistake - I forgot the US uses non-earthed cables compared to Europe.

What was driving my thinking is that the cable is only 2 ply, in the flat flex style - that means no earth wire! In the modern euro, UK or NZ household, for a very long time now, we see cables with 3 wires inside (i.e with an earthwire) and almost exclusively round.

e.g. i recently bought an antique lamp and it had 2 ply from the olden days - i have to rewire it as it is completely illegal.

But I forgot the US allows these cables and i was able to google a similar one on Walmart.

So my bad.

Interesting lol I'm guessing earthwire means a ground wire. I do believe our plugs are grounded by code. Will ask my resident expert tomorrow ;-)

The cord actually helps point to it happening in the home IMO they are very common in households and may have been what was handy.

Actually... I have always thought this happened elsewhere... but where else would they be that would have a cord like that handy, other than a home.. hmmm

 

[Furiously_Following]

FWIW I have specific painting clothes that are already stained but comfy. Further staining (like bleach) makes no difference to me.

 

[Tortoise]

Joey wearing shorts in early February suggests he was at home - no? Or is the weather mild enough for some people to wear shorts at that time of year?

Has anyone testified as to whether Gianni at age 4 would normally have been wearing a pull up during the day, or would this mean he was ready for bed?

 

[mrjitty]

Joey wearing shorts in early February suggests he was at home - no? Or is the weather mild enough for some people to wear shorts at that time of year?

Has anyone testified as to whether Gianni at age 4 would normally have been wearing a pull up during the day, or would this mean he was ready for bed?

Pullup and the bathrobe strongly suggest bed and bathtime IMO Combine with lack of shoes.

IMO these people were at home.

 

[mrjitty]

Interesting lol I'm guessing earthwire means a ground wire. I do believe our plugs are grounded by code. Will ask my resident expert tomorrow ;-)

The cord actually helps point to it happening in the home IMO they are very common in households and may have been what was handy.

Actually... I have always thought this happened elsewhere... but where else would they be that would have a cord like that handy, other than a home.. hmmm

Yeah - earth wire is the ground wire.

US has 2 point plugs. In Europe and many other countries we have three point plugs. The extra point is for the ground wire. Not having been to the US for 5 years or so I forgot you guys do it a different way.

I've recently been removing wiring from an old german house from the 1960s and it was common at that time to only use 2 wires. But this is long since illegal over here.

That is what threw me

 

[Tortoise]

Pullup and the bathrobe strongly suggest bed and bathtime IMO Combine with lack of shoes.

IMO these people were at home.

One of the things that makes me think Joey was out is that the truck which is apparently not the Trooper pulled out of the driveway (direction of headlights swinging left from the house into the road) and there was only enough room on the driveway for the Dodge and one other vehicle to be parked side by side.

 

[asyousay]

I can totally see Joey wearing shorts to lunch as he seemed to dress very casually from the photos I have seen and seemed to have that casual California vibe about him.

 

[Tortoise]

I've been through various scenarios with regard to the staining on the pants and I've formed the conclusion that I think it is urine and the ammonia component that over the long period had the same effect as bleach. I don't think we can compare clothing or soft furnishings that have been washed soon after their exposure to urine. Someone posted an article yesterday that showed pet urine on carpets has this bleaching effect if it is left uncleaned for a long period.

I think the photo of the pants shows the following:

The urination happened while Summer was in a seated position.

I've ruled out the following positions:

- standing upright, because the urine wouldn't spread upwards and rearwards through the fabric to her buttocks area. Even if she was standing up and then made to sit down the majority of the urine would have gone wherever it would go by gravity and not be sufficient to make the buttocks area upwards behind her so wet.

- lying on her back or front, because the urine wouldn't run down the entire leg, or even drench the whole length of the leg uniformly, it would pool underneath her on the surface she's lying on.

- lying on her side, because there's again no reason for the urine to run down the leg, and again uniformly, it would soak her whole hip area to the ground, and even if it did soak her whole lower leg with her legs pressed against each other the urine would leach from the drenched lower leg fabric into the upper leg fabric at least slightly.

I think she was seated and then the pants have been pulled off her with the right leg pulled inside the seat area and the left leg of the pants coming off without being pulled inside. So the right leg stayed bunched up inside the pants and the urine soaked into the inside leg fabric that remained touching the wet crotch area of the pants.

If I apply this to the bleach theory I can't think how bleach would be applied in a seated position while she was wearing them. Even if she was made to sit in a pool of bleach I don't think that would spread upwards through the back and the front crotch area of the pants so extensively. And I also don't see what would be the purpose because if the purpose of the bleach is to destroy his DNA because she has been raped her pants were already off.

If I were to theorize further I would say she could have been killed in a seated position (and her bladder expelled its contents) in the house but then there would be a wet chair in the house and she would fall off the chair so I don't think she would have been seated long enough for her bladder to expel that much urine before she went to the floor in a different position. Unless she was bound to the chair, with say painters tape. That is a serious possibility IMO.

Another theory would be that she was kept alive somewhere and was seated (perhaps on the ground) and she either urinated through fear just prior to her death, maybe witnessing the other murders, or because she was just held so many hours that she had no choice but to let her bladder empty.

MOO

Photo of the back of the pants - click to enlarge

 

[Tortoise]

I can totally see Joey wearing shorts to lunch as he seemed to dress very casually from the photos I have seen and seemed to have that casual California vibe about him.

I can too but I only wonder about it because it was early February.

 

[Mica]

I can too but I only wonder about it because it was early February.

Temperature in Fallbrook on 2/4/10

High 64
Low 42

Afternoon temps in the 60’s

Camp Pendleton Marine Corps Air Station, CA History | Weather Underground

 

[coastal]

Joey wearing shorts in early February suggests he was at home - no? Or is the weather mild enough for some people to wear shorts at that time of year?

Has anyone testified as to whether Gianni at age 4 would normally have been wearing a pull up during the day, or would this mean he was ready for bed?

Hey Tortoise! I know several men who wear shorts all year round here in San Diego. Shorts, T-shirts, and flip flops = dressing up for a couple of them. My own DH, who was a commercial fisherman, dressed like this when I first met him. I did convert him to chinos and golf shirts, but he wore those flops until he died.

I loved that about him.

It does get cold here, but not very and never for very long. Temperature averages are 66/50 degrees in January, with 4 rainy days; 66/51 degrees in February, with 5 rainy days; and 67/54 degrees in March, with 4 rainy days. April averages 69/56 degrees, with just 2 days of rain. I think (having had 30 years of thinking about this very thing) it would have been perfectly normal for Joey to have been wearing shorts everywhere he went that day, even if it was cold and rainy out, and maybe sweats if he planned to stay home. IMO, HTH!

 

[Tortoise]

Temperature in Fallbrook on 2/4/10

High 64
Low 42

Afternoon temps in the 60’s

Camp Pendleton Marine Corps Air Station, CA History | Weather Underground

Thank you Mica. I still don't know how he would have dressed for that, I know I wouldn't put shorts on in those temps, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't.

 

[Tortoise]

Hey Tortoise! I know several men who wear shorts all year round here in San Diego. Shorts, T-shirts, and flip flops = dressing up for a couple of them. My own DH, who was a commercial fisherman, dressed like this when I first met him. I did convert him to chinos and golf shirts, but he wore those flops until he died.

I loved that about him.

It does get cold here, but not very and never for very long. Temperature averages are 66/50 degrees in January, with 4 rainy days; 66/51 degrees in February, with 5 rainy days; and 67/54 degrees in March, with 4 rainy days. April averages 69/56 degrees, with just 2 days of rain. I think (having had 30 years of thinking about this very thing) it would have been perfectly normal for Joey to have been wearing shorts everywhere he went that day, even if it was cold and rainy out, and maybe sweats if he planned to stay home. IMO, HTH!

Thank you coastal. I remember Sequeida saying he wore shorts and flip flops too. If he knew he would be in his car and then in a restaurant I suppose it's not unreasonable to think he was dressed in shorts that day.

 

[mrjitty]

Thank you coastal. I remember Sequeida saying he wore shorts and flip flops too. If he knew he would be in his car and then in a restaurant I suppose it's not unreasonable to think he was dressed in shorts that day.

Yet no flip flops in the grave?

There is no way the murderer keeps these, so are they at the house?

 

[mrjitty]

I've been through various scenarios with regard to the staining on the pants and I've formed the conclusion that I think it is urine and the ammonia component that over the long period had the same effect as bleach. I don't think we can compare clothing or soft furnishings that have been washed soon after their exposure to urine. Someone posted an article yesterday that showed pet urine on carpets has this bleaching effect if it is left uncleaned for a long period.

I think the photo of the pants shows the following:

The urination happened while Summer was in a seated position.

I've ruled out the following positions:

- standing upright, because the urine wouldn't spread upwards and rearwards through the fabric to her buttocks area. Even if she was standing up and then made to sit down the majority of the urine would have gone wherever it would go by gravity and not be sufficient to make the buttocks area upwards behind her so wet.

- lying on her back or front, because the urine wouldn't run down the entire leg, or even drench the whole length of the leg uniformly, it would pool underneath her on the surface she's lying on.

- lying on her side, because there's again no reason for the urine to run down the leg, and again uniformly, it would soak her whole hip area to the ground, and even if it did soak her whole lower leg with her legs pressed against each other the urine would leach from the drenched lower leg fabric into the upper leg fabric at least slightly.

I think she was seated and then the pants have been pulled off her with the right leg pulled inside the seat area and the left leg of the pants coming off without being pulled inside. So the right leg stayed bunched up inside the pants and the urine soaked into the inside leg fabric that remained touching the wet crotch area of the pants.

If I apply this to the bleach theory I can't think how bleach would be applied in a seated position while she was wearing them. Even if she was made to sit in a pool of bleach I don't think that would spread upwards through the back and the front crotch area of the pants so extensively. And I also don't see what would be the purpose because if the purpose of the bleach is to destroy his DNA because she has been raped her pants were already off.

If I were to theorize further I would say she could have been killed in a seated position (and her bladder expelled its contents) in the house but then there would be a wet chair in the house and she would fall off the chair so I don't think she would have been seated long enough for her bladder to expel that much urine before she went to the floor in a different position. Unless she was bound to the chair, with say painters tape. That is a serious possibility IMO.

Another theory would be that she was kept alive somewhere and was seated (perhaps on the ground) and she either urinated through fear just prior to her death, maybe witnessing the other murders, or because she was just held so many hours that she had no choice but to let her bladder empty.

MOO

Photo of the back of the pants - click to enlarge
View attachment 165830

I then to agree

I wonder if the murderer has not displayed his guilty knowledge in plain sight here.

He got very agitated and schooled his Attorneys on what "really happened".

But why should he be so excited over this point? I get why it may matter but why this of all things?

Is it because he knows precisely what happened and this is his chance to get one over the State?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I believe when the forensic examiner expert testifies for the state he/she will say the lighter stains found on Summer's sweatpants are consistent with bleach and not from urine.

Then of course the defense will hire a hired gun to say the opposite like it usually happens.

Many who die do not pass urine or feces afterwards. Neither my father nor mother did and I was there both times when they passed away and remained with them for a long time afterwards.

There are so many variables and none are consistent one way or the other when it comes to releasing or not releasing. It's as individual as the individuals themseves.

I do not believe urine would bleach out the pants like shown.

If urine it would quickly dry out. With the urine no longer wet and active the possibilty of bleaching to this degree would no longer exist.

But we all know bleach instantly bleaches whatever fabric it touches.

I think with all the women on this jury they will come to their own determination they are seeing a garment that has bleach on it.

Jmo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I have a question please.

As the women on the jury sit and closely listen to CMs interview with LE how do you think they feel about his abnormal vindictiveness he displayed against Summer?

Tia

Jmo

 

[missy1974]

Temperature in Fallbrook on 2/4/10

High 64
Low 42

Afternoon temps in the 60’s

Camp Pendleton Marine Corps Air Station, CA History | Weather Underground

Which in Celcius is:

High 17.7 C
Low 5.5 C

Sorry, I'm Canadian, I had to google it lol

Yes I could see him wearing shorts that day/evening.

 

[missy1974]

Yet no flip flops in the grave?

There is no way the murderer keeps these, so are they at the house?

If they were known to wear flip flops more than "shoes"... flip flops are easily lost off of a foot when moving a body, even while killing them would the flip flops stay on the foot? Question then is, where are the flip flops?
I can't recall about the shoes being in the home, but something tells me they were not. Anyone else recall?

 

[missy1974]

I've been through various scenarios with regard to the staining on the pants and I've formed the conclusion that I think it is urine and the ammonia component that over the long period had the same effect as bleach. I don't think we can compare clothing or soft furnishings that have been washed soon after their exposure to urine. Someone posted an article yesterday that showed pet urine on carpets has this bleaching effect if it is left uncleaned for a long period.

I think the photo of the pants shows the following:

The urination happened while Summer was in a seated position.

I've ruled out the following positions:

- standing upright, because the urine wouldn't spread upwards and rearwards through the fabric to her buttocks area. Even if she was standing up and then made to sit down the majority of the urine would have gone wherever it would go by gravity and not be sufficient to make the buttocks area upwards behind her so wet.

- lying on her back or front, because the urine wouldn't run down the entire leg, or even drench the whole length of the leg uniformly, it would pool underneath her on the surface she's lying on.

- lying on her side, because there's again no reason for the urine to run down the leg, and again uniformly, it would soak her whole hip area to the ground, and even if it did soak her whole lower leg with her legs pressed against each other the urine would leach from the drenched lower leg fabric into the upper leg fabric at least slightly.

I think she was seated and then the pants have been pulled off her with the right leg pulled inside the seat area and the left leg of the pants coming off without being pulled inside. So the right leg stayed bunched up inside the pants and the urine soaked into the inside leg fabric that remained touching the wet crotch area of the pants.

If I apply this to the bleach theory I can't think how bleach would be applied in a seated position while she was wearing them. Even if she was made to sit in a pool of bleach I don't think that would spread upwards through the back and the front crotch area of the pants so extensively. And I also don't see what would be the purpose because if the purpose of the bleach is to destroy his DNA because she has been raped her pants were already off.

If I were to theorize further I would say she could have been killed in a seated position (and her bladder expelled its contents) in the house but then there would be a wet chair in the house and she would fall off the chair so I don't think she would have been seated long enough for her bladder to expel that much urine before she went to the floor in a different position. Unless she was bound to the chair, with say painters tape. That is a serious possibility IMO.

Another theory would be that she was kept alive somewhere and was seated (perhaps on the ground) and she either urinated through fear just prior to her death, maybe witnessing the other murders, or because she was just held so many hours that she had no choice but to let her bladder empty.

MOO

Photo of the back of the pants - click to enlarge
View attachment 165830

This is what I think to Tortoise, it only makes sense that she was sitting, almost like it pooled under her. Taking the pants off and leaving the one leg bundled up would cause the soaking into that leg IMO
I can't ignore that the defense put it out there that it was urine, there is a reason they did that (tactical or not lol)