CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #4

[Deleted member 192280]

Did they investigate whether, say, Dan Kavanaugh's phone pinged near the gravesite those days?

Also, I have a vague impression that Summer and Joey had text exchanges on the 4th? Which would mean they were not together. Joey had been outside for sure (meeting CM, etc.), Summer could have been home, or somewhere else. If Joey was taken by the kidnapper/kill(s) separately from Summer and kids, it could be Joey was taken on in the evening of the 4th. And it will be interesting to ask whether any texts from Joey were actually from the criminal.

If they were taken in early morning of the 5th, then it's more likely all 4 were home and taken together.

 

[Mountain Misst]

delete by me

 

[Niner]

Okay - way behind here - only 125 plus... So if this has been posted already - ignore! It gives a good synopsis on what's been going on in the trial.

Jurors hear Merritt's interview with detectives, testimony from examiners

 

[Sharyne]

To the contrary actually, I am feeling hesitant to post about my doubts about this case lol I maybe didn't make myself very clear... I really do think that he most likely is guilty, do I believe that the State is proving it right now? Nope, not to me anyway, and I have watched almost all of the testimony ( I think I have missed bits and pieces).

You are right about the Avery forum, and it's great to have all views and respectful discussion about it. After following that case for years now, I have come to the conclusion that I don't believe ANYTHING that a prosecutor says or LE says just because they say it, and it also goes the same for the Defense. I also don't believe that someone is automatically guilty just because they were arrested. I don't think that's the way it's supposed to work, is it? There are a ton of parallels that I see in these cases. Confirmation bias being one. I have learned a lot about wrongful convictions stemming from the Avery case, it's alarming to say the least. JMO




I was actually going to post about this earlier... and I deleted it. I am curious to see what others are thinking about this case, I think it's good to have different views of what we are hearing. I do want to hear from those that think he is not guilty, I want to know why... tell me why!!!!! I am open to the discussion JMarsh and websleuths is a discussion forum, right?

I see lots of posters liking posts that are not posting, I hope they feel comfortable to post regardless of their views and as long as we are respectful to each other and to the families, all is good

I really like your posts most of all; they are informative, easy to understand, and you make sure to verify your facts.

As to others from the past who are not posting now, I have no idea. The reason I don't think Chase is guilty is because I feel in my gut that someone (with accessory after the fact) else did it, AND cannot discuss it.
Keep up the good discussion, I have learned much from your posts.

 

[Sharyne]

delete

 

[Sharyne]

I'm going to assume the AT&T guy was the last witness??

Updates in red on bottom of list.

Thursday, January 31st:
*Trial continues (Day 15) (@ 9:30am PT) - CA - McStay Family: Joseph (40), Summer (43), Gianni (4) & Joey Jr (3) (Feb. 4, 2010, Fallbrook; found Nov. 11, 2013) - *Charles "Chase" Ray Merritt (57/now 60) arrested (11/5/14) & indicted (11/7/14) of 4 counts of murder with special circumstance; plead not guilty. DP case.
12 jurors & 6 alternates were finalized on Tuesday (12/11/18). 8 women & 4 men, while the alternates include 4 men & 2 women. Trial started 1/7/19. Dark on Fridays.
Skipping Day 1 thru 6 – reference post #1180 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #2
Skipping Day 7 thru 12 – reference post #1121 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #3
1/29/19 Day 13: State witnesses: Elva Fonseca, used to work for Merritt. Joseph Steers, was a detective with SDSD. Diana Wright, FBI forensic examiner. Sergeant Ryan Smith, lead detective. Field trip tomorrow for the jury, they will not be in court. No court tomorrow (1/30). Trial resumes Thursday morning (1/31).
1/30/19 Day 14: Jurors visit Fallbrook house & grave site. Trial continues 1/31.
1/31/19 Day 15: State witnesses: Det. Ryan Smith. Carmen T. Garcia, worked for Metro Sheet Metal from 2007. Michael Dominick Bosillo, works for T-Mobile in Dallas, Custodian Records Testifier. David Lipnitzky, custodian of records from AT&T. No testimony on Monday or Tuesday, Tuesday late morning (~10:30am) they will be discussing motions. On Tuesday they are going to meet & take video depo of Ryan Baker, the customer service rep from Quickbooks. Jury back on Wednesday, 2/6.


Question: Did the jurors go to the Fallbrook house? or just the grave site?

TIA!

Thank you for these days and times for trial. Also, I never did see a reply to this, maybe I missed it?

 

[Furiously_Following]

I'm in Ontario ... brrrrr

are we trying to figure out which hand Chase would've opened the Trooper door with? if so, why?

I'm right handed and always use my left hand to open the driver's door. I have key fobs but almost exclusively use keypad entry. I have grown up with my grandpa and dad having their own shops and I've worked at dealerships since 1986. Service, sales, body shop, parts, finance, rentals. I've had to drive every make, model, size, and age. Even the big 1 ton 4x4 trucks. Standard and automatic transmissions.

I exclusively use my left to open the door because of the natural position it puts you in to get into the vehicle. In sales, I was taught the psychological "presentation" aka "walk-around" that naturally places a customer at the most convenient and natural position that they automatically sit down inside the car. This is to get to the next step of a test drive or "demonstration."

Just my experience!

 

[Tortoise]

What form of transportation do you think he used to get back? (oops) You said hire a truck. Would there be a record of this anywhere?

Actually I thought about it after I posted that and there would be no need for a truck at that time, so a rental car would have served his purpose for getting back from San Ysidro to his own vehicle. Or he could have hitched a ride back even.

 

[Tortoise]

From what @Tortoise posted...

Smith: The last person the family contacted was….the killer

You can hear it for yourself here at 7:25 of the video:

Can't take the credit, this was transcribed by @Force Ten

CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #4

 

[Tortoise]

@Edmo since you are so familiar with the area... and others as well...

How easy would it have been for Chase to get back to the area? Is this something that could take a half hour? an hour? within minutes of walking away from the Trooper? By the looks of the timeline, it's looking pretty tight. We have to assume that he would have known exactly where or what to do to get back that quickly as well... maybe he searched it before he went, but we would have heard about that, wouldn't we have?

ETA: we are also assuming he was alone and no one followed and drove him back as well I guess

This is looking at it from the angle that he had to be back for a predetermined time like he was on a timetable. If it took him longer he'd have been back later and if it took him less time he'd have been back earlier.

We know what time he was in Corona (his phone ping) and according to google routes which build in traffic conditions it is well doable - with 2 hours to spare for other activities that morning.

Google maps says 4 hours to cover 250 miles, which is reasonable. My father lives 200 miles away and we regularly do the journey in 3-4 hours with a coffee stop on the way. If I had to guess I'd say he probably broke the speed limit and did it in less than the 4 hours Google allows.

I'd think he went with a plan for getting back.

 

[Niner]

Right now, I'm thinking that the house call might be wrong? Where did we get that info from?

I answered that question back on page 10 thru 13 somewhere. It came from an old SDBO article - or something like those initials! That is no longer accessible.

I use my right hand for the passenger door, but my left for the drivers door lol

Same as you - left hand driver's side, right hand passenger door.

Question: Did the jurors go to the Fallbrook house? or just the grave site?

TIA!

Thank you for these days and times for trial. Also, I never did see a reply to this, maybe I missed it?

I haven't seen a reply either - anyone here know - did they visit the Fallbrook house too?

And you are quite welcome on the days & trimes for trial.

 

[Tortoise]

IMO, leaving Azusa could be 2 separate ways to get to SD. 1 from the LA area, or 2 through the Corona/Fallbrook route. You could EASILY make to Sd and back from EITHER routes w/in 6 hours, IMO.

I've narrowed it to the Corona route because when his phone came back on he was in Corona and travelling north.

As far as I can see there are two possibilities:

1. He drove the Trooper from home (or near Azusa) all the way to the border that morning.
2. He drove his own vehicle to wherever the Trooper was, left his own vehicle there, and drove the Trooper to the border from there.

Option 2. means that he had to get back to where he left his own vehicle and drive his own vehicle home from there. Option 2 is better because it doesn't involve having the Trooper parked at his home.

Option 2, his route from Corona direct to home (not via Azusa) could rule out that the Trooper was left at Azusa (option 1.) and tells me the Trooper had been left somewhere along that route between Fallbrook and Corona for him to rejoin his own vehicle.

 

[mrjitty]

As @Texas Red explained this is not actually ping evidence as too much time went past to collect it

So we only have direct connections where a call or text was connected or a call tried to connect but went to voice mail

 

[mrjitty]

If I had a dollar for every time a defense’s opening statement made a big point of something that then never appeared in the testimony.....

Lol

Exactly

 

[Tortoise]

I haven't seen a reply either - anyone here know - did they visit the Fallbrook house too?

It wasn't said. The judge said both sides have requested that "the jury have the opportunity to view some of the scenes that have been mentioned in the evidence".

 

[Tortoise]

As @Texas Red explained this is not actually ping evidence as too much time went past to collect it

So we only have direct connections where a call or text was connected or a call tried to connect but went to voice mail

No doubt they will use evidence gathered from his phone records over an extensive time period either side of the crime to show that these dark times were out of habit.

As oceanblueeyes posted:

'How many coincidences are you willing to believe, and still be able to call yourself reasonable people?'

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Ggv

Well, minor contributor on the steering wheel, trace on the the other. There is no way to know if it was all 3, from what I understood in the prelim testimony, the steering wheel was swabbed. Then the gear shift/controls/middle console were all swabbed with 1 swab (it was a collective swab, so no way to tell if it was in 1 spot or all spots that were swabbed) Nothing on the door, inside or out. Until we get that in numbers from a forensic person that can testify about it, I'm not sure?

Morning Missy.

It's hard for me to believe it was just transferred DNA from the meeting.

First, imo the jury would have to have some kind of evidence that supports the handshake even occurrred to seriously consider it which I find doubtful. Right now it's only a defense assumption, right?

People that have known each other for years usually don't shake hands every time they are together. Imo guys may quckly put their hand on the shoulder of their guy friend when leaving then verbally say 'see ya later'. Etc.

To me this particular meeting wouldn't lead to a handshake at the end of it.

I cant believe anyone would shake the hand of the very one they had discovered ripping them off. Who would really do that??

Imo, that's just not logical due to the circumstances surrounding this meeting that had to be anything but cordial. A handshake at the end represents 'all is well and cordial' when I think we can conclude it was not well or friendly, and this contentious meeting started what was to come shortly thereafter.

I understand why the defense is trying to make any of his DNA found in three different locations just coincidental transfer.

I can't recall now, but didn't Merritt himself say he had never been in or drove the Trooper?

If so, the defense knows this links Merritt to the Trooper that was put at the border showing he lied.

For Merritt's DNA to still be there long after the meeting it would have to mean Joey didn't touch any other surfaces or anyone else after then if the handshake even happened.

In the trials I've followed that had DNA evidence found of the suspect have said everyone is constantly touching new different type of surfaces, or other people like family members etc. But the last one to touch any surface will be the most likely one found since they were the last person to touch that particular surface.

Imo

 

[asyousay]

Merritt said he had never driven the car but had been in the passenger seat.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Oops duplicate post. Self deleted.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Merritt said he had never driven the car but had been in the passenger seat.

Good morning asyousay!

Thanks, so the places where his DNA was found does not line up with him saying he had only been a passenger?

How long ago did he say he had been in the passenger seat since DNA of others after then would override his pretty quickly? Tia

Imo