CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #5

[Deleted member 192280]

We have not gotten through the entire trove of evidence yet. So your complaint that there is nothing to link him to the murder might be a bit premature.

Note that I said "So far".

he is the only person that was using Joey's home computer that fateful night

Is there a proof of that?

As to the motive for killing the whole family---it was probably the most common motive in the book---'don't leave witnesses behind.'

What about the likely torture?

 

[katydid23]

These are new stories to me, I have never read them before. I don't think there is any way around it, Chase had conned or stolen from others before and after Joey. They aren't charging him with anything in this case related to him stealing from Joey, so either they can't prove it or it didn't happen. Owing someone money is not necessarily stealing, could still be a con man though.

So what makes Joey different from all of these other people who lived to tell the story? (not directed at you katy, just jumping off your post )

I think the difference is that Joey and Chase had a long, tortured history and Chase had an emotional connection to Joey. And Joey had a lot of big business orders coming in. Chase wanted that money.

But Joey had had enough at that point and I think he gave Chase a severe ultimatum, threatening to cut him out of these upcoming lucrative jobs. Chase was irate because he considered himself a full partner and thought Joey owed him money from these future jobs.

And I think Chase blamed Summer for Joeys sudden strict stance. JMO


These other people, they didn't stick around long enough to be enmeshed with Chase, the way Joey had done.

 

[Force Ten]

That's the problem. This is a murder trial, not a theft trial. So far, not a single solid evidence to link him to the murder. If we focus on motives, CM was not the only one that could have a motive----though I'm not even sure he had the motive to murder the whole family.

It is a trial though. This is how they work. The pros has to establish motive. This doesn't happen in a day. No direct evidence has been presented, yet. But there's a hell of a lot of circumstantial evidence that puts him squarely in the center. Evidential scraps are being carefully pieced together to present a clearer image of how a man could be the one who, with a hammer, extinguished a family.

 

[Force Ten]

Missy,
I guess that's part of what makes getting to the truth difficult so much of the time, in these trials. The jury, supposedly and optimally, only bases their opinion on what's presented at trial; however, people are people and there are witnesses, investigators, and victims who are bad people, strange people, eccentric people, arrogant people....

I was a juror a while back and the lead detective came off incredibly cocky and smug to all of us. We couldn't stand him. Thankfully, everyone was able to set aside his off-putting persona and focus on the evidence in the case. Let's hope this jury can put aside personalities as well and find for the truth.

I keep going back to what's left of the McStays: One minute an average family, with hopes and aspirations and plans, the next a pile of bones, having suffered unimaginable pain and suffering in between.

Was it Mark Furhman? LMAO

 

[missy1974]

I think the difference is that Joey and Chase had a long, tortured history and Chase had an emotional connection to Joey. And Joey had a lot of big business orders coming in. Chase wanted that money.

But Joey had had enough at that point and I think he gave Chase a severe ultimatum, threatening to cut him out of these upcoming lucrative jobs. Chase was irate because he considered himself a full partner and thought Joey owed him money from these future jobs.

And I think Chase blamed Summer for Joeys sudden strict stance. JMO


These other people, they didn't stick around long enough to be enmeshed with Chase, the way Joey had done.

hmm see, I don't buy into him being fired or going to be fired... not yet anyway! I need to see more evidence of that first ...

 

[missy1974]

Was it Mark Furhman? LMAO

couldn't have been... fridaybaker said they looked past it and focused on the evidence haha

 

[Deleted member 192280]

This has probably been discussed, but I was not here to read earlier: the security camera (or cameras?) of the neighbor across the street (?) stopped working for some days, and those were some of the crucial days. What do you all think about that?

 

[katydid23]

Is there a proof of that?

As to the proof, of Chase being the one that created those checks---I think there is solid proof of that.

Two of those checks ended up in Chase's account and were cashed by him, and used by him for gambling in 2 casinos.

And 2 of those checks that were written from that account, were hand delivered by Chase to MSMetal.

So it had to be Chase that was writing those checks. Who else would it be if they ended up in Chase's possession?


Please tell me how someone else was in the home writing those checks, and then they ended up in Chases's account, cashed by him and spent by him?

 

[Deleted member 192280]

As to the proof, of Chase being the one that created those checks---I think there is solid proof of that.

Two of those checks ended up in Chase's account and were cashed by him, and used by him for gambling in 2 casinos.

And 2 of those checks that were written from that account, were hand delivered by Chase to MSMetal.

So it had to be Chase that was writing those checks. Who else would it be if they ended up in Chase's possession?


Please tell me how someone else was in the home writing those checks, and then they ended up in Chases's account, cashed by him and spent by him?

That's not proof that CM was using JM's computer.

 

[Force Ten]

"Cohen said he also established a shared bank account, putting up $10,000 for materials.

But the money started to disappear, and the projects rarely came to completion.

“He wouldn’t do the work. He wouldn’t fill the orders. … It was always excuses, ‘the sun’s in my eyes,’” Cohen said.

By August 2013, Cohen had enough of a man he said he came to completely distrust. He ended their business dealings."



This ^^ part shows the same pattern that the State describes, that created conflict between him and Joey.


“I commissioned a few steel sculptures from Charles,” Adepoju said. “Next thing I know, I was his piggy-bank and he owed me over $4,000. I’m glad that we did not follow though with the registration of our business.“
Despite Merritt referring to Adepoju’s Hesperia office as “his office,” Adepoju said the cowboy hat-wearing metal worker only came Adepoju’s office when he needed money. After Adepoju discovered Merritt’s “shady background,” he quickly cut ties with him and took him to court to get his money."


Again, that ^^^^ is the same pattern. Chase makes promises that he does not keep, and begins taking Money that he cannot or does not pay back.


The above info does not 'prove' that Chase killed the McStay family. But it does show a likely motive and an explanation for the discord and animosity that permeated their business relationship at the end.

 

[fridaybaker]

Note that I said "So far".



Is there a proof of that?



What about the likely torture?

I think that there can be things such as primary motive and secondary motive. I'm not sure how this would be put legally, but everyone knows from the human experience that often our motives aren't one-dimensional. CM hated Summer, that is obvious. I've come to think that he blamed her for not getting more from Joey than he did, and that he likely focused more savagery on her than anyone else. He hated her. So, in my book, I'm thinking the motive goes like this:

1. Rage that the gravy train had come to and end. His statement about Joey's death/disappearance being devastating to his business is insincere, in that it certainly appears that Joey was fed up and cutting him off: His "business" with Joey was toast anyway, along with all the extra benefits -loans, etc.
2. Rage against THAT WOMAN.
3. Prevention of living witnesses.

The rage explains the savagery/possible torture.

 

[katydid23]

That's not proof that CM was using JM's computer.

I don't understand what you are saying.

'Someone' used JM's computer to get into his account and write out some checks, made out to chase merritt. Those same checks ended up in Chase's possession. He cashed some of them and gambled it away. He handed some of those same checks to MSM, in person.

So how is that not proof that Chase was the one who created those checks? Are you saying someone else did so, writing chase's name on them, putting them in chases account to be cashed by him?

Why would anyone else do that?

 

[katydid23]

This has probably been discussed, but I was not here to read earlier: the security camera (or cameras?) of the neighbor across the street (?) stopped working for some days, and those were some of the crucial days. What do you all think about that?

Security cameras are notoriously sketchy. And the people who set them up are often inconsistent and forgetful. We see it often, where LE goes to ask for footage, and the cams weren't working, or weren't turned on, or were unreadable.

I don't think it was nefarious.

 

[fridaybaker]

These are new stories to me, I have never read them before. I don't think there is any way around it, Chase had conned or stolen from others before and after Joey. They aren't charging him with anything in this case related to him stealing from Joey, so either they can't prove it or it didn't happen. Owing someone money is not necessarily stealing, could still be a con man though.

So what makes Joey different from all of these other people who lived to tell the story? (not directed at you katy, just jumping off your post )

...He'd already murdered four people and thought maybe murdering another few might be problematic?

I have a few thoughts about this, but I think the most pertinent is the 3 strikes point. He couldn't afford Joey or Summer to report him.

 

[katydid23]

hmm see, I don't buy into him being fired or going to be fired... not yet anyway! I need to see more evidence of that first ...

What was Joey going to think about that earlier check, written by CM, from joey's account? Do you think Joey knew about that check?

Why was Joey calling the bank, on the way to lunch with Chase? I wonder if we will hear more about that?

 

[fridaybaker]

I think the difference is that Joey and Chase had a long, tortured history and Chase had an emotional connection to Joey. And Joey had a lot of big business orders coming in. Chase wanted that money.

But Joey had had enough at that point and I think he gave Chase a severe ultimatum, threatening to cut him out of these upcoming lucrative jobs. Chase was irate because he considered himself a full partner and thought Joey owed him money from these future jobs.

And I think Chase blamed Summer for Joeys sudden strict stance. JMO


These other people, they didn't stick around long enough to be enmeshed with Chase, the way Joey had done.

Katydid, I second,third, and fourth this!

 

[fridaybaker]

Was it Mark Furhman? LMAO

Nothing that famous! It was, though, a nationally known case featuring a black widow who framed her daughter for it and attempted to murder her. Nice people, huh?

 

[Force Ten]

This has probably been discussed, but I was not here to read earlier: the security camera (or cameras?) of the neighbor across the street (?) stopped working for some days, and those were some of the crucial days. What do you all think about that?

IIRC, they didn't actually stop working as reported. She would only let detectives have a certain a portion of the recordings.

 

[MsFacetious]

...He'd already murdered four people and thought maybe murdering another few might be problematic?

I have a few thoughts about this, but I think the most pertinent is the 3 strikes point. He couldn't afford Joey or Summer to report him.

Three strikes wouldn't have applied to Chase. He didn't have 2 prior qualifying charges. I can't even find one prior qualifying charge. So that would have been his first strike if it counted at all.

 

[Force Ten]

I think that there can be things such as primary motive and secondary motive. I'm not sure how this would be put legally, but everyone knows from the human experience that often our motives aren't one-dimensional. CM hated Summer, that is obvious. I've come to think that he blamed her for not getting more from Joey than he did, and that he likely focused more savagery on her than anyone else. He hated her. So, in my book, I'm thinking the motive goes like this:

1. Rage that the gravy train had come to and end. His statement about Joey's death/disappearance being devastating to his business is insincere, in that it certainly appears that Joey was fed up and cutting him off: His "business" with Joey was toast anyway, along with all the extra benefits -loans, etc.
2. Rage against THAT WOMAN.
3. Prevention of living witnesses.

The rage explains the savagery/possible torture.

Yes, primary motive would be being cut off of the money. IMO, Chase was being paid a really exorbitant amount of money to do the plumbing/lighting/crating. That's a job really anyone could do with fair knowledge. I think, like DK, Chase felt he was part owner of EIP to an extent. That's gotta hurt when the rose colored glasses suddenly come off.

There are a couple factors to consider. We have no idea what was discussed in their conversations that day. In all the calls, it's Joseph calling Chase. Why is he still calling him if he just severed ties with him? I do have some pause when suggested (I've suggested myself) that Chase drove to Fallbrook with the intent to harm or kill someone. Would he really be seeing red for that whole drive and not cool off, come to his senses? Or was it more something like "Hey, I'm coming down to you, let's work this out" sort of thing? Then once there, in the home the discussion escalates between them and Summer overhears, speaks her mind and everything went nuclear.

I can't imagine Chase had planned on killing the whole family, let alone one person. To me the extreme brutality of it all appears to be sudden blind rage and this was over in a matter of minutes.