CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #5

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Good morning!

What exactly happened that day, and why will never be fully known.

To know those things definitively the DA would have to have at least one living witness left behind in order to tell what had happened prior to the mass murder, during, and the aftermath.

Unfortunately, none survived making it impossible to know just like in so many other mass murder cases.

This is the very reason the state only has one burden to be proved BARD (not some imaginary or fanciful doubt. It must always be reasonable.)

They do NOT have any legal burden as to why, when, how, or even where it happened, but the sole burden is proving WHO did it, BARD.

And really that makes total logical sense since the prosecutors weren't there at the time, but they are allowed to enter powerful CE to support their theory which they are also allowed to put forth.

In the end, it really doesn't matter what happened that day or why it resulted in CM winding up murdering them all.

What matters in any criminal case/trial is knowing it DID happen, and proving BARD the one on trial is responsible.

CE facts cant be compartmentalized individually, weighing one at a time, and then setting it aside never giving it another thought.

CE is always weighed in their complete entirety as one long link of continuing rope, and not by weighing each thread of the rope separately, and setting it aside as if it has no relevance to all of the other CE entered. They all will be weighed together like always.

As mrjitty kindly posted, the jury is allowed to infer what all of these plentiful CE shows them. It is one of the reasons why CE cases are so powerful because they are filled with them throughout from beginning to end.

It's rather easy for the juries to follow the CE links when it has been laid out for them when it comes time to deliberate.

Imo they will ask for large white boards to be brought into the deliberation room. They will list all of the CE that has been entered throughut from both sides.

Some may ask for read backs or transcripts of testimony in case one or more remembers another piece of CE that they feel should be added, where some may not have recalled clearly about that particular piece evidence entered.

It's like making a roadmap filled instead with CE facts. At the end they will come to the end of their journey convincing them he is either G or NG.

Imho, I think by the end of the trial, the state will meet their burden, and will have more than enough evidence to prove BARD, CM is indeed the one guilty of all 4 murders.

Imo
 
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Three strikes wouldn't have applied to Chase. He didn't have 2 prior qualifying charges. I can't even find one prior qualifying charge. So that would have been his first strike if it counted at all.
I beg to differ, my ex husband had 2 felony burglary/. of stolen property convictions in California, pre-2000, did minimal prison time (less than 2 years) got caught again and WAS looking at life (3rd strike, habitual) and only got released because the 7 officers who arrested him nearly beat him to death. The San Jose PD was looking at a multi-million dollar suit had they NOT agreed to drop all of it. Ex did NOT have a history of violence. BTW: his BIL is retired San Jose LE.
 
I beg to differ, my ex husband had 2 felony burglary/. of stolen property convictions in California, pre-2000, did minimal prison time (less than 2 years) got caught again and WAS looking at life (3rd strike, habitual) and only got released because the 7 officers who arrested him nearly beat him to death. The San Jose PD was looking at a multi-million dollar suit had they NOT agreed to drop all of it. Ex did NOT have a history of violence. BTW: his BIL is retired San Jose LE.

Thank you for explaining it so well. No one deserves to be beaten like that.

I'm not even sure why some think the felony has to include violence only.

I've never read anything substantiating that has to be the case back when the CA three strikes rule was first enacted.

Some may think CMs felonies are victimless crimes, but, imo, every crime done affects the victim in some manner.

CM would definitely be looked at as an habitual felony offender.

Imo, if charged with another same like felony it would show the court he couldn't be rehabilitated. Imo

Before the law was redone wasn't there a case where a guy had stolen a slice of pizza from a deli, and he had 2 felony strikes against him already which made him eligible for the three strike rule at the time?

I thought it was three felonies, period since felonies are considered by the court as the most serious.

Imo
 
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25:00 minutes in... he says asked her to take the unit, she said no. He tried to get a search warrant and couldn't. I know he says more about it in testimony somewhere else too. I really can't blame Mitchley, I don't think I would want to hand it over

Supppsedly Rick Baker talked with her and she told him the reason she was reluctant was because she didn't want her ex-husband to know where she lived if the video was aired. For the most part I don't believe anything that sleazebag says, he at least got her name right.
 
CM is the only one on trial for murder though. We are only a fraction into the trial, hopefully you will find the evidence more compelling by the end of it. (Or not, it doesn't matter)

Note that I said "so far".

It is an absurd excuse by some of comments here that just because "CM is the only one on trial" you refuse to consider the other people with the motive who may have committed or were involved in the murder. If you are to convict someone for murder, unless you have irrefutable proof, you need not only to prove he has the motive and possibly or even probably did it, but also to eliminate the possibility that someone else did it.
 
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I beg to differ, my ex husband had 2 felony burglary/. of stolen property convictions in California, pre-2000, did minimal prison time (less than 2 years) got caught again and WAS looking at life (3rd strike, habitual) and only got released because the 7 officers who arrested him nearly beat him to death. The San Jose PD was looking at a multi-million dollar suit had they NOT agreed to drop all of it. Ex did NOT have a history of violence. BTW: his BIL is retired San Jose LE.

I looked at the actual list of qualifying charges. SOME burglary charges apply and some do not. Chase's specific charges were not on the list of qualifying charges. I totally agree it doesn't have to be violent charges to qualify.
 
I beg to differ, my ex husband had 2 felony burglary/. of stolen property convictions in California, pre-2000, did minimal prison time (less than 2 years) got caught again and WAS looking at life (3rd strike, habitual) and only got released because the 7 officers who arrested him nearly beat him to death. The San Jose PD was looking at a multi-million dollar suit had they NOT agreed to drop all of it. Ex did NOT have a history of violence. BTW: his BIL is retired San Jose LE.

When I was looking last week... there was a difference between residential burglary and commercial burglary. Commercial was not a strike. And then there was a difference between first degree and second degree. Second was not a strike. Chase was convicted of second degree Commercial burglary. He was also convicted of Grand theft I believe, but only grand theft using a firearm is considered a strike offense.

This list is pretty good and easy to read but I even went and looked up the statutes and his convictions were not in them as strike offenses.

LIST OF STRIKE OFFENSES IN CALIFORNIA | Sigal Law Group
 
Supppsedly Rick Baker talked with her and she told him the reason she was reluctant was because she didn't want her ex-husband to know where she lived if the video was aired. For the most part I don't believe anything that sleazebag says, he at least got her name right.

You lost me at Rick Baker haha I've tried to stay away from anything that is related to him... only because I know it caused a lot of kerfuffle ;-)
 
My hubby has a friend over for coffee right now... a buddy of his just had a heart stents put in last week, and our friend had them put in a few years ago... I just asked him what he could do afterwards.. he said nothing for 8 weeks, he was told to not lift anything over 5lbs, and he couldn't even drive for a few weeks!!!! (he was in his late 60's when he had it done though) He's probably wondering why I asked so many questions LOL just thought I would share because of convo yesterday! I can't see Chase having stents done... will be interesting if we learn he did.
 
Note that I said "so far".

It is an absurd excuse by some of comments here that just because "CM is the only one on trial" you refuse to consider the other people with the motive who may have committed or were involved in the murder. If you are to convict someone for murder, unless you have irrefutable proof, you need not only to prove he has the motive and possibly or even probably did it, but also to eliminate the possibility that someone else did it.
Convictions are not always based on irrefutable proof. They just have to be based on ‘beyond a resonable doubt’. Also the pros doesn’t have to provide a motive to prove criminal liability.

Re your point that we ‘refuse to consider anyone else’. As part of this forum we did that for years! We literally looked at countless theories and suspects.

But now SBSD, who have had access to far more info than us, and through a detailed investigation have narrowed it down to one suspect which they arrested four years ago because all roads point to him. That’s why we’re spending our time on CM and not discussing others. I hope that makes sense?
 
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This is perhaps off topic - mods, please don't get mad - but I remember, way back when, someone said that the pizza incident never happened, and that Chase made it all up. Obviously, I cannot verify this, but also cannot entertain the notion that Summer would do that. Or that anyone would do that. Who on earth - literally - eats pizza with a fork and knife?


And the other little detail, about how HE PAID, for that pizza always sounded like B.S., to me. Especially after reading those articles, quoting two other business men that he ripped off and used as his personal piggy banks.
 
Note that I said "so far".

It is an absurd excuse by some of comments here that just because "CM is the only one on trial" you refuse to consider the other people with the motive who may have committed or were involved in the murder. If you are to convict someone for murder, unless you have irrefutable proof, you need not only to prove he has the motive and possibly or even probably did it, but also to eliminate the possibility that someone else did it.
Actually no, the Pros is not obligated to rule out anyone else that was involved. The state's burden is to convince a jury Chase Merritt was responsible beyond a reasonable doubt.

The Pros is presenting evidence, it's up to the defense to challenge it and the jury to decide if it's irrefutable.

We are not the jury. We are not convicting Chase Merritt. We toss around the nuts and bolts of the case and trial. <modanip personal comment>
 
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IIRC, they didn't actually stop working as reported. She would only let detectives have a certain a portion of the recordings.

If possible, would like to know where you read or heard this. Will be appreciated. I seem to remember at the testimony the defense asked the neighbor whether she reported to the camera manufacturer about the problem and the answer was negative.
 
Convictions are not always based on irrefutable proof. They’re based on ‘beyond a resonable doubt’. Also the pros doesn’t have to provide a motive to prove criminal liability.

IMO if there is another person who could have done it, then it would not be "beyond a reasonable doubt". And for the record, I mentioned motive that's precisely because that's what most comments I read here have been focusing on.
 
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