CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #8

[Tricia]

On Feb 4th, 2010 the McStay Family, Joey, Summer, Gianni, and Joseph Jr vanished from their home. It looked like the family simply got up and left their home never to return.

Law Enforcement was convinced that the McStay family ran away to Mexico.

Patrick McStay, Joey's father, along with other loved ones knew there was no way Joey and his family would never flee to Mexico. There was no reason for this scenario presented by law enforcement.

Up until the remains of the family were found buried in the desert on November 11, 2013, Patrick McStay searched for his son and his family.

Family friend Chase Merritt was arrested for the McStay family murders on Nov 7th, 2014 and finally, Merritt's first-degree murder trial is underway.

The McStay forum is in our private section. However, we are making the discussion of the trial public.

Link to prior threads
#1 CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010

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[missy1974]

So I just listened to April Coronado's testimony...

Maline going on about Paypal was kinda stupid... it seems obvious to me that the bank isn't going to know who originated those and it would be paypal... however, the fact that they were going through after the family disappeared should have been flagged as odd IMO You flag a mortgage but not paypal transactions? Even if it was just to give that information to the detectives to further explore. There were 5 paypal transactions, totalling $10,477.99 between Feb 5th and 16th. (the Mctays went missing Feb 4th and were reported missing on Feb 15th)

I'm left with a few questions. She was first "alerted" on Feb 19th. But at what point did she actually freeze the account? Was it immediately?

When asked about notes prior to Feb 4th, from JM calling into the bank... she said if he called the banks call center, there would be a record of it, if he called an individual bank, the call itself wouldn't be noted, but if the person who took the call noted it in any other bank system, it would be noted. She says earlier that there were no notes on the account... so I'm not sure if that includes the individual bank notes or not??? I wish one of the lawyers had asked her *sigh* Or the judge.

Oh and an interesting tidbit... When she was contacted by San Diego Sheriff's office in 2014... , there was confusion about where the cheques were cashed…. they thought they were cashed in the San Diego area. She caught that they were not cashed in S.D., they were in R.C. No indication of exactly when in 2014 she was contacted.

 

[Force Ten]

I think the point is that—if Chase’s DNA is transfer DNA from shaking Joseph’s hand, it’ll only be on Joseph’s RIGHT hand. So....if he opened the door with his LEFT hand, it explains why none of Chase’s DNA on the handle

No I get it. I don't perceive these two shaking hands upon meeting. I don't shake hands with friends or business associates unless it has been a while. I mean these two were in constant contact. However, a handshake upon leaving is very possible, as in a final goodbye. I could see Joseph be man enough to do that. Because, he just fired him and there was a lot that they did together. So maybe some transfer happened. Not enough to be transferred on all these places, even if done by swabbing. IMO. I just don't buy it.

 

[ehenson88]

Ok, too tired right now to go back and look but per today's testimony Chase had transactions in Mexico on 1/29/09. Wasn't this the same day as the searches were done from the McStay computer about traveling to Mexico??

If so I have a feeling that his trip down there and the computer searches could be connected somehow. Maybe he was trying to take his son with him , or convince Joey to go down there. Or perhaps they were just talking about it and out of curiosity Google it to see what the requirements were for kids to go. Anytime I'm in a conversation with someone and something comes up neither of us are sure about, I'll pull out my phone and Google it.

Also, in his interview with Dugal he said it had been like years(or a long time) since he had been in Mexico. It wasn't oh yeah I was there last month. Not sure why he would have lied about it if he was down there buying materials or something non nefarious.

 

[Niner]

Thursday, February 21st:
*Trial continues (Day 22) (@ 9:30am PT) - CA - McStay Family: Joseph (40), Summer (43), Gianni (4) & Joey Jr (3) (Feb. 4, 2010, Fallbrook; found Nov. 11, 2013) - *Charles "Chase" Ray Merritt (57/now 60) arrested (11/5/14) & indicted (11/7/14) of 4 counts of murder with special circumstance; plead not guilty. DP case.
12 jurors & 6 alternates were finalized on Tuesday (12/11/18). 8 women & 4 men, while the alternates include 4 men & 2 women. Trial started 1/7/19. Dark on Fridays.
Skipping Day 1 (1/7/19) thru 6 (1/15/19) – reference post #1180 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #2
Skipping Day 7 (1/16/19) thru 11 (1/24/19) – reference post #1119 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #3
Skipping Day 12 (1/28/19) thru 14 (1/31/19) - Reference post #217 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #5
Skipping Day 15 (2/5/19) thru 17 (2/7/19) - reference post #648 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #6
2/13/19 Day 18: State witnesses: Detective Jason Schroeder continues his testimony from last Thursday, under cross examination. He analyzed two McStay computers, Merritt's iPhone & a computer from Merritt. After lunch, attorneys are arguing over a QuickBooks witness, records. Michael West, works for Intuit. Sgt. Ryan Smith being recalled. Trial starts at 11am, a juror has an appointment, continues on 2/14.
2/14/19 Day 19: Arguments without jury present. Judge will allow the State to put on the evidence with regards to closeup photos of tire tracks, inquiries about U.S. borders, references to changing identity, & screenshot of Joseph McStay's contacts & cell phone records. State witness: Detective Dan Hanke (testifying about the Feb 8 & 9 calls made to QuickBooks). Ran out of witnesses ended at about 3:15pm. Next court date is Tuesday, 2/19.
2/19/19 Day 20: State witnesses: Donald Thomas Jones, retired, Criminalist with SB County. Sgt. Ryan Baker recalled to stand. Trial ends at 3:45pm PST. Judge has an appointment. Trial continues on 2/20.
2/20/19 Day 21: State witnesses: Donald Thomas Jones continued on stand. April Coronado, fraud investigator for Union bank (in 2010). Scott Weitzman, forensic accountant, certified fraud examiner. Trial continues on 2/21.

 

[Niner]

Thursday, February 21st:
*Trial continues (Day 22) (@ 9:30am PT) - CA - McStay Family: Joseph (40), Summer (43), Gianni (4) & Joey Jr (3) (Feb. 4, 2010, Fallbrook; found Nov. 11, 2013) - *Charles "Chase" Ray Merritt (57/now 60) arrested (11/5/14) & indicted (11/7/14) of 4 counts of murder with special circumstance; plead not guilty. DP case.
12 jurors & 6 alternates were finalized on Tuesday (12/11/18). 8 women & 4 men, while the alternates include 4 men & 2 women. Trial started 1/7/19. Dark on Fridays.
Skipping Day 1 (1/7/19) thru 6 (1/15/19) – reference post #1180 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #2
Skipping Day 7 (1/16/19) thru 11 (1/24/19) – reference post #1119 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #3
Skipping Day 12 (1/28/19) thru 14 (1/31/19) - Reference post #217 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #5
Skipping Day 15 (2/5/19) thru 17 (2/7/19) - reference post #648 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #6
2/13/19 Day 18: State witnesses: Detective Jason Schroeder continues his testimony from last Thursday, under cross examination. He analyzed two McStay computers, Merritt's iPhone & a computer from Merritt. After lunch, attorneys are arguing over a QuickBooks witness, records. Michael West, works for Intuit. Sgt. Ryan Smith being recalled. Trial starts at 11am, a juror has an appointment, continues on 2/14.
2/14/19 Day 19: Arguments without jury present. Judge will allow the State to put on the evidence with regards to closeup photos of tire tracks, inquiries about U.S. borders, references to changing identity, & screenshot of Joseph McStay's contacts & cell phone records. State witness: Detective Dan Hanke (testifying about the Feb 8 & 9 calls made to QuickBooks). Ran out of witnesses ended at about 3:15pm. Next court date is Tuesday, 2/19.
2/19/19 Day 20: State witnesses: Donald Thomas Jones, retired, Criminalist with SB County. Sgt. Ryan Baker recalled to stand. Trial ends at 3:45pm PST. Judge has an appointment. Trial continues on 2/20.
2/20/19 Day 21: State witnesses: Donald Thomas Jones continued on stand. April Coronado, fraud investigator for Union bank (in 2010). Scott Weitzman, forensic accountant, certified fraud examiner. Trial continues on 2/21.

 

[Force Ten]

When I was listening today... and he said he had "suspect 1", it wasn't labelled as Chase Merritt, I was hoping they would ask if they had "suspect 2" LOL I missed little bits and pieces and probably won't be able to catch up completely until tomorrow though *sigh*

It's not betond reason that they had multiple suspects. I do recall they found and questioned Vick Johansen soon after the remains were found. There was no tunnel vision in this investigation IMO.

 

[dlkutac]

Ok, too tired right now to go back and look but per today's testimony Chase had transactions in Mexico on 1/29/09. Wasn't this the same day as the searches were done from the McStay computer about traveling to Mexico??

If so I have a feeling that his trip down there and the computer searches could be connected somehow. Maybe he was trying to take his son with him , or convince Joey to go down there. Or perhaps they were just talking about it and out of curiosity Google it to see what the requirements were for kids to go. Anytime I'm in a conversation with someone and something comes up neither of us are sure about, I'll pull out my phone and Google it.

Also, in his interview with Dugal he said it had been like years(or a long time) since he had been in Mexico. It wasn't oh yeah I was there last month. Not sure why he would have lied about it if he was down there buying materials or something non nefarious.

No, that trip was a year earlier. The searches were done on 1/27/2010, the week before the family disappeared.

 

[katydid23]

Ir is hard for us to know how this trial is unfolding. Because of the horrid live-streaming issues, and lack of consistent trial time, it is hard to know how the jury is coping.

If the jurors are engaged and taking notes, and if they get along well, it is possible that they are piecing this testimony together and following along nicely. It is frustrating for us, but they might appreciate the shorter hours and extra days off . It can be exhausting and overwhelming to be in the jury box 40 hours a week.

So this might be working out better than we think.

 

[katydid23]

Not sure if that's a negative towards Chase considering the McStay family was in the exact same "boat"?

Mystery of McStay money: Family found dead could barely afford rent despite $100k in bank | Daily Mail Online

I just read through that article. It seems like click bait, more that authentic information, in my opinion. The 'source' for the contention that they could barely afford their rent seems to be lacking some credibility. He s a tenant who moved into their rental when they moved out.

Lots of inconsistencies in his statements. If they had 100k in their bank, then how can one say they could 'barely afford' their rent. That makes no sense. It says they were behind and about to be evicted.

I remember discussions earlier about them being in a dispute of some kind with their landlord. People often withhold their rent when certain rental issues arise. We don't know, but we do know they could 'afford; to pay it, since they had 100k saved up.

And just 2 months later they bought a nice home. So it wasn't a matter of not being able to pay, it was some other reason. Which we will likely never know.

Also, this guy admits that the 'unpaid bills' and letters from the IRS 'may have arrived' AFTER the family went missing. So the headline in the article is misleading, in my opinion.

from link above, this guy doesn't seem all that credible, about what he really knows about the timing:

'After I moved in I got a lot of their mail, which they obviously hadn’t redirected. I kept getting letters from attorney's representing a doctor's surgery outside of California.

'Apparently they had paid Mr McStay $14,000 up front to build a fountain and ship it out to them. But they obviously didn’t get anything. After the family went missing they weren’t going to get their fountain, but I think the letters started when they were still around.

'I also got letters from the IRS and debt collectors chasing them as well, but the majority of those came after they had vanished. I guess a lot of these people didn't realize they'd gone missing.

'It's hard to say how many of these debts came because they went missing and how many were owed before, but I really can’t explain how they went from not being able to pay $850 a month to buying a house and having $100,000 in the bank.'

 

[mrjitty]

So I just listened to April Coronado's testimony...

Maline going on about Paypal was kinda stupid... it seems obvious to me that the bank isn't going to know who originated those and it would be paypal... however, the fact that they were going through after the family disappeared should have been flagged as odd IMO You flag a mortgage but not paypal transactions? Even if it was just to give that information to the detectives to further explore. There were 5 paypal transactions, totalling $10,477.99 between Feb 5th and 16th. (the Mctays went missing Feb 4th and were reported missing on Feb 15th)

IIRC we already had testimony that DK put in a paypal request on the 5th that he was chasing authorisation on?

A request is basically like an invoice that the paypal account owner can then pay. So this process was transparent.

But what is unknown it seems, is who managed to login to Joey's paypal to authorise them.

 

[mrjitty]

I just read through that article. It seems like click bait, more that authentic information, in my opinion. The 'source' for the contention that they could barely afford their rent seems to be lacking some credibility. He s a tenant who moved into their rental when they moved out.

Lots of inconsistencies in his statements. If they had 100k in their bank, then how can one say they could 'barely afford' their rent. That makes no sense. It says they were behind and about to be evicted.

I remember discussions earlier about them being in a dispute of some kind with their landlord. People often withhold their rent when certain rental issues arise. We don't know, but we do know they could 'afford; to pay it, since they had 100k saved up.

And just 2 months later they bought a nice home. So it wasn't a matter of not being able to pay, it was some other reason. Which we will likely never know.

Also, this guy admits that the 'unpaid bills' and letters from the IRS 'may have arrived' AFTER the family went missing. So the headline in the article is misleading, in my opinion.

The daily fail should not be relied on at all.

 

[katydid23]

After I moved in I got a lot of their mail, which they obviously hadn’t redirected. I kept getting letters from attorney's representing a doctor's surgery outside of California.

'Apparently they had paid Mr McStay $14,000 up front to build a fountain and ship it out to them. But they obviously didn’t get anything. After the family went missing they weren’t going to get their fountain, but I think the letters started when they were still around.

Mystery of McStay money: Family found dead could barely afford rent despite $100k in bank | Daily Mail Online


I wonder if Joey gave 65% of that 14k to Chase, to build that fountain^^^^^, and Chase never did, but just kept the $$$$ ?

 

[mrjitty]

She said she noticed the signatures appeared different on the cheques payable to charles merritt.

So cheque fraud then.

 

[mrjitty]

Indeed he did. Imagine that.

It seems genuine efforts were made to continue the business

 

[mrjitty]

Comparing Joey’s 2009 ledger with Merritt’s 2009 bank account in the chart, I wonder how much Merritt was paid that year? There is a difference in payment methods between the 2007 & 2008 ledgers vs the 2009. The 2009 ledger shows amounts for Chase but his payments from Joey didn’t start until Oct. 2009. Ledgers for 2007 and 2008 show payments to Merritt throughout the year.

Crazy how much he was getting paid for this stuff, if Joey was having to pay the materials and MSM as well

 

[mrjitty]

McGee didn't say they didn't hire one.

from OS's...

We next knew that this was a financial case, so we contacted Denis Shogren, who is a forensic accountant. He has been an accountant for 20 years, his primary purpose is he's a forensic accountant in trusts and wills, he likes to see where money goes, where it's spent. And it's funny we really needed him because this is a financial case but the government never wrote for an accountant to tell them where the money went. You are going to learn about that. Our expert gave them a report, they hired one now. I guess we will see where that goes.

McGee rolls out the usual bantz about the corrupt incompetent prosecution

When in doubt blame the cops!

 

[mrjitty]

I do not see Joey meeting Chase Merritt for an "intervention".

I think the "flurry of phone calls between Joey and Chase Merritt" were due to Joey finding out that Chase had been stealing from him.

I think that Joey was done with him and he wanted keys back from Chase and to confront him face to face with what he had learned from his bank. Probably to also tell him that he wanted the stolen monies repaid.

Most likely Joey threatened Chase Merritt that he was ready to call the police.

The timing of the bank call is highly significant in the context of everything else we know about the lower case Chase cheques. The evidence of fraudulent signature is evidence against all the world that Joey did not authorise that cheque.

The defence would need to prove otherwise (i.e. testimony from one chase merriit)

There is a strong inference the bank call was about that cheque.

 

[mrjitty]

He also told investigators that Joey gave him those checks, including the paul mitchell one, at lunch on the 4th. But we now know he created them himself on the 5th. ==<<<LIE

This is where it is key to look at all the CE together as far as the Paul Mitchell cheque goes

Dodgy signature, backdated, deleted, printed it himself, lied about where he got it ...

How much more plain need it be?

 

[mrjitty]

Exactly.

Add in that Chase had no knowledge of his own whereabouts on the 8th,
his phone was disconnected for 6 hours - long enough to get to the border and back,
when his phone came back on he was driving north,
he did not call Joey that morning,
he told Carmen he'd tried calling Joey all weekend when in fact he had called once on Sunday,
his call pattern was not normal for a weekend,
he'd been in the desert on Saturday,
he'd not been in at Metro working on Friday,
the only thing we do know he was doing on the 5th and the 8th was creating backdated QB cheques, and made a 2 hour call to QB.

Quite a list T!

It's a massive mistake to dismiss pieces of the puzzle one by one

Possibly this will be engraved on my headstone

, and think it reasonable to assign an outside chance of it being transfer dna to it that cannot ever be proven - and is being put forth by the murder suspect who has a reason to lie, could not remember instantly if he had been in the car, gave only one instance of having been in the car ever and that just so happened to be mere weeks before the murders, traveling to an event that Joey was most likely too unwell at the time to have partaken in.

JMO

But yes. In my experience discussions on websleuths tend to get too far down in the weeds.

An incisive, long in the tooth Justice, would be far more troubled by the piling up of inherent improbabilities.

Add to that, the defence case is that DK gone done it - yet once more, no CE supports it.