CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #9

[missy1974]

Smith thought she was in a relationship with McGill. I thought she was as well. But she says she just lived on his property. So why is she lying? This is from late 2017.

I thought it was Smith that said, he thought they were, but she made it clear they were not... which would have been when he interviewed her? Did they ask her about that? I thought his name came up in Smith's cross?

 

[missy1974]

I want to watch the entire 8 hour interrogation.

According to Maline they plan on playing it. Makes me wonder what the other 7 hours and 15 minutes of the interview was if they think it's a good idea to play it.

 

[MsFacetious]

Apparently it was a guy that lived there, they were not 'involved', Smith thought they were. Maline was trying to get Smith to say what time frame, but Smith did not know.

We have been wondering why they wanted Bennett's DNA, this seems like it might be an answer. Will be interesting to hear what comes out. I really do find that more can be learned from the questions asked than the questions answered sometimes ;-)

Yes, absolutely. Attorneys think about that when crafting questions. Even if it's objected to and sustained, you've gotten the information out there already.

I was wondering too. And she was probably there to testify and because no jury, no testimony yesterday.

The exclusionary rule does apply to testimony but not always hearings. If it's a sensitive topic then that's different but general hearings are not usually closed courtrooms.

In my experience, when someone is on pain meds including myself, if you are an honest person, you tend to be honest while on said meds, in some cases even brutally honest. I've experienced this "honesty" with pathological liars.
With someone who has an illegal addiction to pain meds, liar, liar, pants on fire.

I had a family member who was addicted to so many pills it's a wonder she survived. She never became a liar. She was just as tactless and brutally honest as always.

oh cmon... did you see the video? is that someone that looks "healthy"?

She reminds me of my family members in that generation who have also had numerous health issues/surgeries/neurological issues.

I’m not denying her need of oxygen but merely questioning her veracity. Now I am even more disgusted that CM would have his ill sister come to his defense. Where does it end? He is a sociopathic narcissist and will throw anyone under the bus to his benefit.

Chase doesn't determine who the prosecution calls as a witness.

There is no evidence to support his claim either. IMO

Well they've gotten emergency medical records subpoenaed... you don't have emergency medical records if you don't have medical issues. If they didn't back up his story the defense wouldn't want them.

Smith thought she was in a relationship with McGill. I thought she was as well. But she says she just lived on his property. So why is she lying? This is from late 2017.

This is from Thanksgiving 2016.
Where does it say they've been in a relationship for several years? Why couldn't it have been a recent change? Not in a relationship 2010-2014, but then were in 2016.

 

[mothwings]

Does anyone know where day 26 is? Why they haven't uploaded it in the archives?

 

[MsFacetious]

Did you listen to the entire hearing?

I barely have time to catch up here. I'm preparing for two trials here with each client facing life in prison. Catching up here is my down time... I'm strange.

BBM
From what Smith was relaying, she was coherent and answering his queries.
I want to hear the recording.

My family member who was a severe pill addict signed many legal papers while out of her mind. Like big ones that had witnesses such as mortgages or vehicle purchases or triple digit loans. It doesn't mean she was actually capable of that. It's just hard to tell sometimes.

 

[katydid23]

My family member who was a severe pill addict signed many legal papers while out of her mind. Like big ones that had witnesses such as mortgages or vehicle purchases or triple digit loans. It doesn't mean she was actually capable of that. It's just hard to tell sometimes.

If a detective had asked her when she last saw her brother, would she have been able to answer correctly?

 

[missy1974]

Does anyone know where day 26 is? Why they haven't uploaded it in the archives?

Not uploaded yet Maybe in the morning. Not sure where you are? But it's 3am Eastern, 12am Pacific right now ;-)

 

[mrjitty]

IIRC, he was asked about why they were meeting for lunch that day. And one thing he said was that Joey had some checks to drop off to him, which included the ones he actually backdated to the 4th.

THAT^^^ tells me that he was trying to cover up the writing of those checks, and he knew that already when he backdated them to the last day that everyone knew Joey was alive and well.

I don't see any explanation for that yet, besides Chase being the killer.

My opinion of this case is that these days everyone is very focussed on some smoking gun DNA type evidence. Where's the blood in the house!

But there are other kinds of forensics

The backdating of the Paul Mitchell check is the single, inexplicable slip up that proves Chase is the killer.

All the rest of the circumstantial evidence like the video and the ping from the grave sites just give more definition to the picture

The defence seek to distract us from this one truth about the case

One key point that simply cannot be innocently explained.

On the 5th of Feb 2010, Chase knew Joey was dead.

 

[mrjitty]

You were asked to provide the quotes from the search warrants which show this.

Will you do it?

I don't think it is down to us to trawl the warrants looking for vague material you say is in there to support your contention.

Still waiting to understand how the Search Warrants show Chase was an involved father.

 

[A lucas]

It’s my opinion that it was Joey’s email on 1st telling CM what he owed 42k that triggered this whole chain of events. I think it woke a rage in CM and it’s on that day he started to access QBs. And the family were killed that week too!

We need to give that email more profile/weight. It’s the motive for murder in my view!

 

[mrjitty]

Of course the DA's take on the forged checks is what makes the most sense. To suggest that Joey was handing checks out like candy is stupid. No one is going to believe that. Why didn't Joey give Metro a wad of checks to pay themselves and save Joey the 2 seconds of time it takes to create a check? What about bank transfers? If joey was so overburdened with the seconds it takes to make a check, why not use bank transfers, which could occur one time or set up to occur repeatedly. To try and justify the forged check writing as innocent, makes Chase look even more guilty than it would to just acknowledge the theft.

As I have posted several times, the forged signature is prima facie proof that Joey was not consenting to the payment

That is why we use signatures of legal and financial documents. The signature provides a reliable legal proof of consent.

Chase as the man with personal knowledge, must testify that Joey authorised him to act in this way.

otherwise the jury must conclude it was fraudulent.

It is important to note that Chase lied about getting those cheques from Joey on the 4th

 

[MsFacetious]

If a detective had asked her when she last saw her brother, would she have been able to answer correctly?

I have no idea Katy, everyone is so different. All I know is my own relative could appear fairly normal to people who didn't know her well. A lot just thought she was weird and blamed her medical issues, which were plentiful.

Everyone reacts so differently to meds, surgical pain and neurological issues. There is always medication interactions to worry about when multiple health issues are at play too. This can also cause different side effects that's one is used to seeing.

There were many times when my relative didn't know the location of her own children, much less her siblings.

I believe my relative would likely remember with only two siblings (she had 12). Obviously everyone is simply too different to judge.

I think if there's a suggestion in court that she is lying about her medical history, she should be asked to produce records by the defense. In order to back up her testimony, I think she'd likely want to do that as well.

 

[mrjitty]

It’s my opinion that it was Joey’s email on 1st telling CM what he owed 42k that triggered this whole chain of events. I think it woke a rage in CM and it’s on that day he started to access QBs. And the family were killed that week too!

We need to give that email more profile/weight. It’s the motive for murder in my view!

It's my opinion that Joey was in an abusive relationship. Not with Summer (idiotic) but with Chase.

Normally these abusive relationships are with domestic partners or siblings, but can be between friends, at work etc

I think Joey was taking back more control of the business and his life in general, as he became a more successful businessman and his confidence increased.

I think it is not the money directly that got him killed but the control/power dynamic.

As you astutely note, it is likely not coincidental that Chase reacted to that email as abusers do.

When Joey refused to be a victim, this escalated into violence.

The brutality inflicted on the kids is telling IMO. They weren't merely in the way. They had to be obliterated

 

[katydid23]

I have no idea Katy, everyone is so different. All I know is my own relative could appear fairly normal to people who didn't know her well. A lot just thought she was weird and blamed her medical issues, which were plentiful.

Everyone reacts so differently to meds, surgical pain and neurological issues. There is always medication interactions to worry about when multiple health issues are at play too. This can also cause different side effects that's one is used to seeing.

There were many times when my relative didn't know the location of her own children, much less her siblings.

I believe my relative would likely remember with only two siblings (she had 12). Obviously everyone is simply too different to judge.

I think if there's a suggestion in court that she is lying about her medical history, she should be asked to produce records by the defense. In order to back up her testimony, I think she'd likely want to do that as well.

Yes, I agree that everyone is different so it is hard to tell.

I don't doubt that she had medical issues. But I do have my doubts about the description of her now being given ---that she was a drooling mess that had no idea what she was saying, etc.

Her answers were concise and specific, with details about her last meetings with her brother. If she could remember going to meet him at Cocos' and could remember him asking her to come visit his kids in Rancho Cucamonga, then I think she could remember him coming to visit her---especially if asked that by the investigator.

 

[katydid23]

My opinion of this case is that these days everyone is very focussed on some smoking gun DNA type evidence. Where's the blood in the house!

But there are other kinds of forensics

The backdating of the Paul Mitchell check is the single, inexplicable slip up that proves Chase is the killer.

All the rest of the circumstantial evidence like the video and the ping from the grave sites just give more definition to the picture

The defence seek to distract us from this one truth about the case

One key point that simply cannot be innocently explained.

On the 5th of Feb 2010, Chase knew Joey was dead.

That is why the defense is trying so hard to assert that the family was alive and well and making breakfast at home on the 5th of February.

 

[katydid23]

I want to watch the entire 8 hour interrogation.

Do we think they will really play that entire 8 hours of interrogation?

 

[mrjitty]

That is why the defense is trying so hard to assert that the family was alive and well and making breakfast at home on the 5th of February.

Yes

But the idea of a random killer in the morning does not fit with the idea of the staging.

An organised killer could lure the McStays out, murder them at an unknown location and conceal the bodies. Though it might be more usual just to dump them, the concealment has advantages re forensics. But in which case there is no need to stage the trooper at yet another location. Indeed why lure the McStays anywhere.

With the staging, the point is not to think through how it was achieved but rather to follow the narrative the killer tries to tell then look in the opposite direction.

The killer was someone very close to them. The overkill indicates a need to erase them with brutal blows to the skull - even for the children.

This was to punish them and control them - or to punish one of them. IMO Joey. IMO his body is different because he was the focus for all of this.

It's really such a shame they were not found sooner, because i think Summer's body would have told us a lot more.

I think forensically the bodies were a gold mine. That's why they had to be hidden.

 

[mrjitty]

Do we think they will really play that entire 8 hours of interrogation?

I don't see the point

McGee's technique is to be a sock puppet for his client, in effect giving the defendants excuses (briefed to him by Chase) without Chase testifying.

In 8 hours of tape, he can't interpret it.

 

[Tortoise]

I don't think that explanation will work though. If he was just using the blank checks he already had, why would he create one on Joey's desktop on the 4th?

None of it works IMO.

To believe him, the jury is going to have to suck up the following:

Saudi Arabia money;

1. Joey asked Chase to create himself a cheque (and delete it) and he already had three blank cheques in his possession to do that before Feb 1st. Two cheques which he printed on 1st for $2500 but never banked (memo line deposit), and one printed on Feb 2nd which he did bank for $2495 - memo line deposit sa 1001.

2. Joey gave Chase two more blank cheques to create for himself on the 4th, one which he backdated printed and deleted on the 5th but didn't bank ($6505 - memo line bal sa 1001) and one he backdated printed and deleted on the 8th which he did bank ($6500 - memo line saudi arabia final).

So that's five blank cheques there just for Saudi Arabia, three of them given to him before Feb 1st (two trashed and one cashed) and two of them supposedly given to him on Feb 4th (one trashed and one banked).

Paul Mitchell money;

3. On the 4th, after giving Chase blank cheques for it at lunch time, Joey supposedly according to DT created a cheque for Chase $4000 memo Paul Mitchell.

4. On the 5th Chase would write a Paul Mitchell cheque not knowing that Joey had created one on his computer the night before.


Plus jury needs to either believe or ignore;

5. Joey would go to the bother of creating a cheque but not bother printing it.

6. Joey would be murdered when that cheque on the 4th was created but his murder is not connected to the cheques.

7. The murder is personal and it is someone who was right up close to Joey, within an arm's reach with this short hammer, in his personal space, and he didn't know it was coming - took no steps to run away, but the murderer didn't just leave the bodies in the house to let the world know they had been murdered, the fact of the murders had to be hidden, which adds to the murderer's profile as being someone who would be connected immediately.

8. Metro calling and emailing Joey on the 5th, might well raise the alarm about Joey being missing would be paid cheques and stop calling Joey. Who created the cheques for Metro? Chase. Such bad luck.

9. Chase would create cheques the next day backdated to the date of Joey's murder, not knowing he's been murdered, making that date a highly significant and sensitive issue to the writer.

10. Joey would not give Chase a cheque on the 2nd for Saudi Arabia but would give him a cheque for $100, knowing he already had three blanks, and Chase would drive all the way to Fallbrook and back on 2nd just to get that $100.

11. Joey would not follow his usual practice of issuing cheques to Chase that week.

12. Joey would send Chase an email on Feb 1st saying Chase owes him $42845, and not include the Saudi Arabia money as deductible or payable yet.

13. Chase would not mention the $ he had paid himself to detectives when he showed them the email. He says Joey owed him after those projects but since he's already paid himself he's not owed anything when they talk to him.

14. Joey would give blank cheque stock to Chase or tell him to sign his cheques, knowing he is financially reckless, has prior convictions, has had to pay money to help Cathy before, and is not working as expected but is in the casinos.

15. Cheque stock is missing and it's pure coincidence that Chase was writing and printing his own cheques somewhere other than on Joey's computers.

16. There is zero evidence that Joey met Chase at lunch on the 4th. There is however a bit of a panic on Chase's end as he makes 13 calls in 9 minutes. And if that meeting is unproven then not only did Chase not get more blank cheques from Joey that day he didn't touch his hand either.

17. Joey just happened to coincidentally call his bank, log into QB must have been to look at something else in his books as he's driving, and then call his bank again on his way to Rancho Cucamonga, but it's unconnected to the murder or the cheque that cleared on the 4th.

18. Chase has never had an alibi for the 4th but now his memory has improved and he can tell Cathy where she was and where he was, even though they wracked their brains together over this for years, she saw a call on his phone that never came in and then called his phone knowing it was on the counter, while she's also at school and he's at the movies.

19. Phone pings where the bodies were buried.

20. No calls to Joey that Saturday, one on Sunday and none on Monday morning when he's telling Carmen he hasn't been able to get hold of Joey.

21. Chase calls Susan Blake the day after the Trooper went to San Ysidro.

22. Chase's bank account shows balances far higher than he's had before, looking back over the prior year. Joey got generous when he was murdered.


Of course all this can be explained by confirmation bias.

 

[Tortoise]

The only rational motive for murder in all this, is if Joey was going to fire Chase. There is no evidence of fraud because there was a check cashed the week of the disappearance, Joey was on the phone with his bank and did not report fraud, did not change passwords, did not call QuickBooks to report unlawful use of that program.

Chase had 100s of thousands more reasons to keep Joey alive, than to kill him.

No that's not the only rational motive.

I can think of others.

Chase getting out of his debt to Joey.
Chase wanting complete control of the business now there was good work in the pipeline and Dan was no longer going to be Joey's partner.