CA CA - John Beck, 73, Alameda, 9 Feb 2016 #1

[Lilibet]

John's poster is on the NorCal Alliance for the Missing FB page.

https://www.facebook.com/norcalallianceforthemissing/posts/509556599231650

 

[neesaki]

According to the info I listed in the linked post, there was no useful or surprising info gleaned from John's cell records.

This post is a good reference of info we knew on Feb. 16 for those just joining or for people like me who can't hold it all in my head! It probably needs updating, but the basics are there.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ameda-9-February-2016&p=12359996#post12359996

Oh, sorry, I had read your post before but didn't remember reading that part, well in all truthfulness I have this bad habit of trying to read too fast.. :blush:

 

[Lilibet]

Oh, sorry, I had read your post before but didn't remember reading that part, well in all truthfulness I have this bad habit of trying to read too fast.. :blush:

No problem. It's a good review. We can't retain everything.

 

[JoyM]

I'm sure it's already been addressed here somewhere I just didn't find it, but it appears that at the 3628 Sacramento address there are several Licensed Clinical Social Workers and what appears to be Psychologists (PhD's) , as well as a Beauty Salon. That's if this is current information.

I'm sure they've already checked all of these out though. I wonder if he was seeing someone there for counseling. Or maybe just thinking about it. Gosh, I hope they find him soon and hope he's ok.

Hello! We did ask Blue Mountain Counselling about John. Sadly, they had not seen him.

 

[JoyM]

It said that someone saw him "leaving the trail" ? Was it clear what the person meant by that, as in where did he appear to be headed ? TIA

ETA: I just read that they saw him "exiting" the trail.

Yes! sorry for the confusion. The reference is to this witness: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=z9ujZkJ3xpI4.k9Br38G5fMvk

She said he was walking towards the 32nd Ave (? I believe--need to look that up) entrance. We don't actually have someone who saw him exiting the park--no luck with cameras from the houses opposite the entrance--but the team members who walked the trail and the Marin Search and Rescue folks think it's the most likely possibility.

I don't have much to report today--new video, which I see Lilibet has already posted! Thank you :cupcake:. We hired a new--and we believe more qualified-PI. Still working on getting the bridge footage. We're doing the next level excavation of John's computer. Volunteers are contacting shelters/soup kitchens/ mental wards farther out, and visiting pawn shops in person. I hope to have more for you tomorrow!

Thank you all! I hope I'll bring you news of a big breakthrough tomorrow! Until then, all my best.

 

[persimmon]

I'm sure it's already been addressed here somewhere I just didn't find it, but it appears that at the 3628 Sacramento address there are several Licensed Clinical Social Workers and what appears to be Psychologists (PhD's) , as well as a Beauty Salon. That's if this is current information.

I'm sure they've already checked all of these out though. I wonder if he was seeing someone there for counseling. Or maybe just thinking about it. Gosh, I hope they find him soon and hope he's ok.

Would client patient confidentiality rules apply to a situation like this? Im wondering if it extends as far as not acknowledging you are treating someone?

 

[Tssiemer]

Would client patient confidentiality rules apply to a situation like this? Im wondering if it extends as far as not acknowledging you are treating someone?

Yes. It would be a HIPPA violation to even say he was seen there without proper release of information signed by JB himself.


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[deedee21]

Theres a missing persons report. I dont believe its a violation of HIPPA laws to disclose that someone is a patient at a facility when there is an active search by LE. Discussing their case may be a violation. IMO

 

[kimi_SFC]

This is the link to the HHS website that addresses HIPAA specific to LE. I've snipped part of it, but there's more to read:

505-When does the Privacy Rule allow covered entities to disclose information to law enforcement | HHS.gov
[...]
To respond to a request for PHI for purposes of identifying or locating a suspect, fugitive, material witness or missing person; but the covered entity must limit disclosures of PHI to name and address, date and place of birth, social security number, ABO blood type and rh factor, type of injury, date and time of treatment, date and time of death, and a description of distinguishing physical characteristics. Other information related to the individual’s DNA, dental records, body fluid or tissue typing, samples, or analysis cannot be disclosed under this provision, but may be disclosed in response to a court order, warrant, or written administrative request (45 CFR 164.512(f)(2)).

Source:
http://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-profes...ies-to-disclose-to-law-enforcement-officials/

I wrote a paper on the subject while preparing for the CompTIA Health IT exam. I hope this helps!




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[Lumberjill]

JoyM, I don't agree with your comments: "The pain of the loss is always much greater than whatever difficulty the depressed individual worries they're inflicting upon their loved ones. But I know that this lie feels like the most profound truth to many people afflicted with suicidal depression."
Pain, whether physical, emotional or psychic, is subjective. For example, you can't compare your pain of loss with my pain of the absolute black hole of depression. Nor do I think that truth is absolute. Your truth isn't the same as my truth.
Neither pain nor truth are objectively measurable, so should not be compared from one person to another. They are experiences and feelings, unique to the person who is perceiving them.
Yes, I agree that some suicides are related to wanting to prevent pain and suffering in the family/friend circle, as in the example of protracted disease.

 

[Lilibet]

Thanks Kimi! So I'm reading this as saying that limited information regarding the identity of a missing person can be given to LE. But if family or friends came to the office covered by HIPAA with a flier and asked if they had seen John the office is prevented by HIPAA from giving that info. Fair enough. Although HIPAA can seem quite cumbersome, it was designed to protect people's privacy.

It would be wise to ask LE to make the inquiry at this address or any other medical setting John's team has already visited. JMO

This is the link to the HHS website that addresses HIPAA specific to LE. I've snipped part of it, but there's more to read:

505-When does the Privacy Rule allow covered entities to disclose information to law enforcement | HHS.gov
[...]
To respond to a request for PHI for purposes of identifying or locating a suspect, fugitive, material witness or missing person; but the covered entity must limit disclosures of PHI to name and address, date and place of birth, social security number, ABO blood type and rh factor, type of injury, date and time of treatment, date and time of death, and a description of distinguishing physical characteristics. Other information related to the individual’s DNA, dental records, body fluid or tissue typing, samples, or analysis cannot be disclosed under this provision, but may be disclosed in response to a court order, warrant, or written administrative request (45 CFR 164.512(f)(2)).

Source:
http://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-profes...ies-to-disclose-to-law-enforcement-officials/

I wrote a paper on the subject while preparing for the CompTIA Health IT exam. I hope this helps!




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[Lilibet]

Yes! sorry for the confusion. The reference is to this witness: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=z9ujZkJ3xpI4.k9Br38G5fMvk

She said he was walking towards the 32nd Ave (? I believe--need to look that up) entrance. We don't actually have someone who saw him exiting the park--no luck with cameras from the houses opposite the entrance--but the team members who walked the trail and the Marin Search and Rescue folks think it's the most likely possibility.

I don't have much to report today--new video, which I see Lilibet has already posted! Thank you :cupcake:. We hired a new--and we believe more qualified-PI. Still working on getting the bridge footage. We're doing the next level excavation of John's computer. Volunteers are contacting shelters/soup kitchens/ mental wards farther out, and visiting pawn shops in person. I hope to have more for you tomorrow!

Thank you all! I hope I'll bring you news of a big breakthrough tomorrow! Until then, all my best.

BBM

Thanks so much, Joy. I remember that sighting but didn't connect it with the way it was worded in the video. You'll find that WSers pick up on those little details and want clarity. Thankfully, you're here to provide answers. Otherwise the discussion about what was meant could go on for pages ad infinitum...especially when there is nothing new to talk about. Gotta love us!

It's really a good lesson for us on WS about how long it can take LE to obtain information like the bridge footage.

As mentioned regarding HIPAA, it might be more definitive and productive for LE to make these queries at medical settings.

You are all doing amazing work. I can only imagine how discouraging, frustrating and exhausting this is. Big hugs to one and all.

 

[Tssiemer]

Theres a missing persons report. I dont believe its a violation of HIPPA laws to disclose that someone is a patient at a facility when there is an active search by LE. Discussing their case may be a violation. IMO

They need a subpoena. Trust me I've been through it and have had to testify in court twice. Even then they always asked me more question than I could answer.


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[Tssiemer]

Thanks Kimi! So I'm reading this as saying that limited information regarding the identity of a missing person can be given to LE. But if family or friends came to the office covered by HIPAA with a flier and asked if they had seen John the office is prevented by HIPAA from giving that info. Fair enough. Although HIPAA can seem quite cumbersome, it was designed to protect people's privacy.

It would be wise to ask LE to make the inquiry at this address or any other medical setting John's team has already visited. JMO

HIPPA is the thorn in my side at work lol. I'm a social worker.


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[Lilibet]

HIPPA is the thorn in my side at work lol. I'm a social worker.

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Yes, HIPAA is a good example of a well-intentioned effort to fix a real problem and in the process creating a tangle of unforeseen ones.
JMO

 

[neesaki]

They need a subpoena. Trust me I've been through it and have had to testify in court twice. Even then they always asked me more question than I could answer.


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Even if the person is not a patient there? Couldn't they honestly answer that with a "no, he's not my patient" or something like that? I fully understand that HIPPA would apply if he is a patient there, they would just say they couldn't answer, or something along those lines. Seems to me, jmo.

 

[Lilibet]

Even if the person is not a patient there? Couldn't they honestly answer that with a "no, he's not my patient" or something like that? I fully understand that HIPPA would apply if he is a patient there, they would just say they couldn't answer, or something along those lines. Seems to me, jmo.

That's a good question! You're probably right that the receptionist or practitioner could say "No, I haven't seen that person." If they said they couldn't answer, that's when you could send LE. Excellent thinking!

 

[JoyM]

JoyM, I don't agree with your comments: "The pain of the loss is always much greater than whatever difficulty the depressed individual worries they're inflicting upon their loved ones. But I know that this lie feels like the most profound truth to many people afflicted with suicidal depression."
Pain, whether physical, emotional or psychic, is subjective. For example, you can't compare your pain of loss with my pain of the absolute black hole of depression. Nor do I think that truth is absolute. Your truth isn't the same as my truth.

I'm sorry, maybe I was unclear. I was speaking of the family members' experience in both cases. In my personal experience, and in the experiences I've heard, the loved ones would much rather suffer whatever pain or inconvenience the depressive individual worries they are responsible for than be mourning their suicide.

Of course there is no universal rule. But I believe that in the vast majority of cases (if not all), the depressed individual is wrong to believe that they would be *helping* their family by committing suicide.

 

[JoyM]

They need a subpoena. Trust me I've been through it and have had to testify in court twice. Even then they always asked me more question than I could answer.

Yes. Frustrating in this circumstance, though I understand the reason for these policies. Here is a template we created for volunteers of the points we want to hit when contacting these institutions:

My name is ___________; I'm here on behalf of my friend Laura Beck, whose father, John Nelson Beck, went missing in the Bay Area on Tuesday, February 9th. (More information can be found at https://www.facebook.com/findjohnbeck/.)


We have reason to believe that Mr Beck was under tremendous stress at the time of his disappearance and are making inquiries at shelters and psychiatric facilities where Mr. Beck may have turned to for help.


Mr. Beck is about 180 lbs, white, 5'11". He is a very gentle, kind soul and a beloved father, husband and grandfather.

Here are flyers with photos and contact information. I understand that confidentiality policies may make you unable to let us know if you've come across Mr. Beck, but if you could please let him know how desperately his family wants to know he's safe, we would so very much appreciate it. Thank you so much for taking the time to help in any way you can. Mr Beck's disappearance is filed with the Alameda PD, Case # 16-716.

 

[Deleted member 165632]

Yes. Frustrating in this circumstance, though I understand the reason for these policies. Here is a template we created for volunteers of the points we want to hit when contacting these institutions:

My name is ___________; I'm here on behalf of my friend Laura Beck, whose father, John Nelson Beck, went missing in the Bay Area on Tuesday, February 9th. (More information can be found at https://www.facebook.com/findjohnbeck/.)


We have reason to believe that Mr Beck was under tremendous stress at the time of his disappearance and are making inquiries at shelters and psychiatric facilities where Mr. Beck may have turned to for help.


Mr. Beck is about 180 lbs, white, 5'11". He is a very gentle, kind soul and a beloved father, husband and grandfather.

Here are flyers with photos and contact information. I understand that confidentiality policies may make you unable to let us know if you've come across Mr. Beck, but if you could please let him know how desperately his family wants to know he's safe, we would so very much appreciate it. Thank you so much for taking the time to help in any way you can. Mr Beck's disappearance is filed with the Alameda PD, Case # 16-716.

JoyM,
Thank you for sharing the template. I am not familiar at all with HIPPA rules, etc. Can't imagine the frustration that it may be creating in this situation. Just wanted to say that in my opinion this seems like an excellent template, and it may be helpful to other families in their search for missing loved ones.

Thank you for sharing.
Sending prayers and hope to you and John's family.