CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #2

[happyday]

We don’t know that they all died at once. They were all found close together, but they could have succumbed at different times, and I think that is likely if it ends up being from heatstroke. They would have been incapacitated first, and even if that didn’t happen all at one time, they stuck together if one or more of them was in a bad state. It was 2 days before they were found, so they could have succumbed at totally different times over those 2 days. And obviously the baby and dog (if tethered or just loyal) wouldn’t have been able to go anywhere.

ETA. Oops this was supposed to reply to Dee Deforest’s post.

 

[RickshawFan]

I’m still stuck on why they didn’t tell someone where they were going, the route they were taking and when they would be expected back? This is really rule #1 in hiking. It puzzles me that it appears the first person to notice they were missing was the nanny on Monday morning and that they weren’t even reported as missing to authorities until Monday Night.

I’m not a professional hiker BY any means, but I travel by car extensively and if I go ANYWHERE that there’s a potential to be out of communication or off-grid. someone knows about it, is waiting for me to return, and would contact authorities if I’m not back in communication within an hour if my predicted time.

It makes me wonder why they weren’t reported missing for what appears to be almost 2 days?? (Last communication 6:45am Sunday, reported missing late Monday night). This the most puzzling part. It’s almost as if they didn’t want anyone to know where they were going or come find them too soon…???

On a final note, immediate SARS contact doesn’t always guarantee rescue alive as was the case of Paul Miller in JTNP, however he was NOT found on the trail. All this leads me to conclude that if they had communicated to someone their plans they very well May have been found alive once they missed their return time.

Odd.

JMOO

A PLB was a life or death piece of equipment in this accident IMO.

 

[sfinkz]

Stumbled across this 70+page thread and thought I’d pop in for a bit but was soon sucked-in with a keen focus. I hurriedly skipped over a lot of the good stuff in the middle because I was afraid I wouldn’t make it to the end but after seven hours with no bathroom break I feel I’m laboriously going uphill in circles chasing a mirage, none of it making sense anymore as I entertain irrational and sinister thoughts. Could I have heatstroke?

 

[RickshawFan]

Are you a regular and avid hiker? It may seem weird to those who are not outdoorsy and don't regularly hike moderate distances (8 miles is not really a long hike for "avid hikers"), but for those who are seasoned hikers, it's really not that weird. Even if it's hot you still want to get out and many baby carriers have covers now. They were also out early in the morning before it was that hot - you can cover 8 miles easily in under4 hours, so they probably expected to be back before it hit 100. I don't think why they were out there is the baffling part of this case.

The temperature was at 100 before 4 hours was up. It was at 90 at, like, 1 hour. 8 miles may be moderate for an "avid hiker", but hiking above 90 is not "moderate" for them, either. Think of all the in-shape football wannabes who die training this time of year. And we're talking baby and shaggy dog.... Why they were out there, with as much experience as they had is EXTREMELY baffling.
There must have been some compelling reason to tackle this particular trail. They could otherwise have gone a lot higher up where it would be cooler. Picked a shady trail where it would be cooler. Picked an easy trail where they wouldn't have to exert themselves in the heat. Picked a "high interest" trail that was very short but sweet.
I actually think they might have been intending the latter, with a mine as the destination.
I wonder how many times they'd taken the baby hiking?

 

[GatorFL]

A PLB was a life or death piece of equipment in this accident IMO.

100%. I've been a few places out west and my hiking buddy had a nice Garmin. No way I'd hike out there without one.

 

[GatorFL]

I wonder how many times they'd taken the baby hiking?

I was thinking about this too. I've seen babies on casual trails but not once have I seen a baby in a pack on a moderate or difficult trail. I think maybe I saw a family with a baby when I did a section on the AT but they were right by the parking lot.

 

[Dee Deforest]

I agree. Heat stroke would probably affect the baby, then Ellen, then John. You would think John would have made a mad dash to get help if somebody was overwhelmed.

LEO said no other dead animals in the area which sort of eliminates a CO2 cloud, but you never know. Lake Nyos killed a bunch of people and livestock on one side of a lake. Maybe this was a smaller release?

I don't think ingesting tainted water would act that fast and there would have been evidence on autopsy if they had gotten ill from tainted water. Throw up, abrasions in the throat, etc.

Toxicology can't come fast enough.

I agree on the wate

We don’t know that they all died at once. They were all found close together, but they could have succumbed at different times, and I think that is likely if it ends up being from heatstroke. They would have been incapacitated first, and even if that didn’t happen all at one time, they stuck together if one or more of them was in a bad state. It was 2 days before they were found, so they could have succumbed at totally different times over those 2 days. And obviously the baby and dog (if tethered or just loyal) wouldn’t have been able to go anywhere.

ETA. Oops this was supposed to reply to Dee Deforest’s post.

You could be right, because we don't know the time in between deaths, but still for 4 deaths in that time frame (even the dog) is just something I've never heard of?

 

[RickshawFan]

From the Bee:

• Monday, Aug. 23: Additional water samples are collected from water sources “along the trail area.”

Huh. This suggests they did do the full loop, or at least made it down to the Merced, which was approx halfway no matter which direction they went. Like someone commented up the thread, if they saw rushing water, they might have assumed it was safe to drink, perhaps made more confident if they carried a Lifestraw or similar. I have to assume they had a bottle or two in addition to a bladder, just based on their experience and years of hiking.

As for not notifying anyone, iirc they texted or posted the baby backpack to a friend or friends via social media. But it is gut wrenching that no one called police until Monday night. Perhaps being new to the area they just didn’t have friends that they texted with every single day.

I don't know that much about heatstroke, but I would guess it would be lethal in an hour? I just don't think this was ever going to be a rescue mission. By Sunday evening, it was recovery.

IMO LE biologists collected additional samples from the water, but that could have been determined without assuming or anticipating or verifying the family got to the water's edge. They may have just decided, whatever the story, they should prolly take more samples. The Merced is a significant river in that area and is crucial to Park recreation.

 

[drama_farmer]

Reading this, I almost choked on my devil's food cake.

Earlier this year I hiked a small mountain here in NY called "Elephant Head", and I can tell you that it was not an elephant's head. Tuesday I went swimming at Buttermilk Falls -- just water, no buttermilk at all. A woman I work with just got back from riding a motorcycle over Back of the Dragon in VA, and would you believe that she didn't see one dragon?

Sometimes a name is just a name.

 

[RickshawFan]

I was thinking about this too. I've seen babies on casual trails but not once have I seen a baby in a pack on a moderate or difficult trail. I think maybe I saw a family with a baby when I did a section on the AT but they were right by the parking lot.

Decades ago, I backpacked with a couple in the Wallowas (Oregon) who brought an infant (3 months old?). I thought it was crazy, they didn't take any precautions, and they burned the diapers in the fire (a total NO for eco reasons, IMO). I still think it was crazy, but at least it was much cooler and shadier than this family's crazy hike. There were others of us there, too, if a problem developed.
BTW 18 years later, I fitted a backpack to that infant. She was headed for CO to climb fourteeners.

 

[Luwin]

I just can't imagine any scenario where one of them wouldn't have been holding the baby come the end

 

[annpats]

I just can't imagine any scenario where one of them wouldn't have been holding the baby come the end

I think that's how bad heatstroke gets. you can lose all rationality and can't even think properly or look after yourself any more, let alone a baby.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

I don’t agree. You’re making an assumption of an error from an Instagram post that looked like a joke to me. Of course people make mistakes and I’m not disputing that. I’m saying there doesn’t seem to be any evidence either were reckless or would willingly put their child or dog in danger. Not even the available evidence suggests that. You’re also assuming they did the full loop, hadn’t adequately prepared, had never taken either the child or dog out on a hike before, and that they didn’t think to foresee telling someone where they were. All these assumptions can also safely be answered by they simply didn’t plan on being out there that long. I’m just pointing out that I don’t see any evidence of people that would lead me to reasonably assume they were reckless or indifferent to their or their child and dog’s safety. I’m definitely not going to conclude that if something happened that was out of their control or even a mistake.

MOO varies and that is ok. The fact that no one else was on the trail Sunday, Monday or Tuesday morning suggests to me that being there was not wise. That the temps were so high shortly after they started suggests to me that being there was not wise, esp with a baby and double coated dog. That there was a steep 5 mile long climb out of the canyon would be a challenge even at lower temps. People can vary in willingness to take risks but in this case the baby and dog had no say. They had previously bitten off more then they could chew and had a safety issue, that does not seem to have made them more cautious. They would not have put the baby and dog in the car and left them to go shopping, but given the conditions they were exposed to, similar scenario. They did not perceive the risks accurately and 4 lives were lost. It has happened many times this summer. There needs to be a public education campaign about the dangers of heat. Good intentions do not make it less lethal. MOO.

 

[GatorFL]

Decades ago, I backpacked with a couple in the Wallowas (Oregon) who brought an infant (3 months old?). I thought it was crazy, they didn't take any precautions, and they burned the diapers in the fire (a total NO for eco reasons, IMO). I still think it was crazy, but at least it was much cooler and shadier than this family's crazy hike. There were others of us there, too, if a problem developed.
BTW 18 years later, I fitted a backpack to that infant. She was headed for CO to climb fourteeners.

Hiking and golf, you gotta start them young.

 

[RickshawFan]

Gosh you guys are fast hikers. I think it would have taken them a lot longer than 3 1/2 hours, even with everything going right. In that heat, with the dog and baby in a pack, I don’t believe they would be that fast or even to expect being that fast. MOO. I must be a slowpoke!

I am much slower, too, but I estimate this couple could have been fast hikers. And heck, I'm seriously a slowpoke. They also likely underestimated the time it might take for whatever hike they were going on.
I'm a predictable 2-mile an hour hiker (including breaks). When I was a thru hiker, I told time by the number of miles I hiked and vice versa, lol. I have exactly zero drive when I'm hiking unless I'm with people!

The more I think about this, I'm convinced the family had planned a short, "high interest", hike. This would correspond to the amount of water they had. And if they didn't carry snacks or baby stuff, they absolutely weren't planning to be out long. I wonder if they'd heard rumors of a mine that's not on maps? Or were chasing down a rumored metal deposit?

Clues: Were they packing out a dirty diaper? How many spare diapers did they have? Was there an empty milk bottle for baby? Juice? Did they have energy bar wrappers? Did they pick up any natural souvenirs, like special rocks they might have found near a mine? Did they have bad blisters? Heat and a gritty trail will do that to you, and bad blisters can be very disabling.

It's weird that they weren't set upon by animals or vultures in the two days before they were found...

If they weren't wearing hats, even for a super short hike, I give up on the idea they were of sane mind when they went on this hike....

 

[d4i5y]

I agree on the wate


You could be right, because we don't know the time in between deaths, but still for 4 deaths in that time frame (even the dog) is just something I've never heard of?

They could’ve all succumbed to different things, too. The baby or dog could’ve been ill first. If they weren’t and the parents collapsed first, then both baby and dog would be lost to heat, dehydration, etc. With the parents, one could’ve collapsed from say an electrolyte problem or even an as yet unidentified health condition or water poisoning, the other from heatstroke. All told from last time sighted to found, about 40 hours had passed which is really a lot of time for all sorts of scenarios with not all perishing at the same time but possibly hours after one another. It’s awful to think about.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

If it's 107º why wouldn't four creatures die "at once?" ("At once" is a relative term which could span minutes or hours.)

 

[RickshawFan]

I am much clearer on the maps today, but I'm still very unclear about which direction they trekked out from the car (i.e, Hites Cover or SL), or if they started out on one trail & doubled back & switched to the other. Does anyone know, or have an opinion based on your understanding of the evidence?

Another thing I've been pondering is if, say they were a few hours in on their proper chosen route, & already experiencing a degree of heat exhaustion (with cognition already being affected), might they have made a spontaneous decision to go further than they had planned or prepared for?

This is the problem with a loop trip. There's psychological pressure to keep going on a loop and not turn back.

 

[SophieRose]

Heat Safety | Maricopa County Parks & Recreation

Heat stroke is the most serious heat-related illness. It occurs when the body becomes unable to control its temperature. The body's temperature rises rapidly, the sweating mechanism fails, and the body is unable to cool down. Body temperature may rise to 106°F or higher within 10 to 15 minutes.

 

[annpats]

It's weird that they weren't set upon by animals or vultures in the two days before they were found...

Well, they might have been, but LE didn't say one way or the other.

But if their bodies weren't set upon by animals or vultures, what could be the reasons for this?