CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death remote hiking area, Aug 2021

[Deleted member 292879]

I say this with utmost empathy to the victims and as a parent myself…If it wasn’t natural causes, I would believe that the combined strains of post-partum and covid would be a factor here. Like a previous poster alluded to as for their reasons for hiking in those conditions, if it *wasn’t* murder-suicide, perhaps they simply were desperate for an experience that felt like normal life, and felt they were adequately prepared for heat (seeing as they’d been to Burning Man, Gobi, etc). And they’d been on the trail before per the All Trails data, so they knew how exposed and burned it was from the fire…Ugh, make it make sense!

 

[moonriverfarm]

Baby found IN CARRIER next to the dad who was in a sitting position
Dog found lying next to the baby
Mom found 30 years away
If the baby was the first to die, wouldn't the parents have taken her out of the carrier? I agree that this sounds like heat stroke for all.

 

[MimosaMornings]

I say this with utmost empathy to the victims and as a parent myself…If it wasn’t natural causes, I would believe that the combined strains of post-partum and covid would be a factor here. Like a previous poster alluded to as for their reasons for hiking in those conditions, if it *wasn’t* murder-suicide, perhaps they simply were desperate for an experience that felt like normal life, and felt they were adequately prepared for heat (seeing as they’d been to Burning Man, Gobi, etc). And they’d been on the trail before per the All Trails data, so they knew how exposed and burned it was from the fire…Ugh, make it make sense!

They had been on that same trail recently?
With the baby in hot weather?

 

[Deleted member 292879]

They had been on that same trail recently?
With the baby in hot weather?

Sorry I should have been more clear: a previous post mentioned the trail had been mapped by the father on AllTrails, not sure if it had been hiked live or just mapped for future hiking.

ETA: He saved Hites Cove Trail on AllTrails a year ago; I don’t see the Hites Cove Road trail where they were found (different trail) in his list of saved activities/recordings.

 

[happyday]

I say this with utmost empathy to the victims and as a parent myself…If it wasn’t natural causes, I would believe that the combined strains of post-partum and covid would be a factor here. Like a previous poster alluded to as for their reasons for hiking in those conditions, if it *wasn’t* murder-suicide, perhaps they simply were desperate for an experience that felt like normal life, and felt they were adequately prepared for heat (seeing as they’d been to Burning Man, Gobi, etc). And they’d been on the trail before per the All Trails data, so they knew how exposed and burned it was from the fire…Ugh, make it make sense!

Yes, they KNEW better. If they set out in the morning, then I lean toward a tragic accident. Something happened that put them in the brutal heat of the day. If they set out in the afternoon, then I am suspicious.

 

[Deleted member 292879]

Yes, they KNEW better. If they set out in the morning, then I lean toward a tragic accident. Something happened that put them in the brutal heat of the day. If they set out in the afternoon, then I am suspicious.

Me too. I think it’s likely heatstroke, but it’s hard to say that just because they were successful and doing well by outward appearances, that mental health might not have played a role. But really, the Kreycik case makes this one scream of heatstroke. Sometimes experience and habit can affect judgment.

 

[cocomod]

So, they leave in the morning... They have water with them when they are found... This is telling! Heat stroke when they have water is less likely. I am really wondering what in the world could have happened here. It doesn't make any sense. I know people who live in AZ and hike in 100 degree weather all of the time. With experienced hikers, as long as they are careful (stop to cool off in the shade often and keep hydrated), they do not typically have issues.

 

[armchairagatha]

I am going to suggest something a little far-fetched that no one seems to have suggested so far. Homicide and not murder-suicide. I think I read somewhere that they had household help and a nanny. Who was the household help and did they live with the family? If so, why did they not alert anyone until Monday that the family was missing?
The photo of the baby carrier at 6.45 am or so indicates they were up early - so no reason to think they didn't leave around 7 am or so for the hike planning to be back well before it got really hot. It was not a long hike so shouldn't have taken them more than 2-3 hours.
They were experienced hikers and had water with them when found and were generally "well prepared for the hike" based on various reports. They also had hiked this trail before being that it was right at their doorstep. So unlikely to have got lost and wandering about in the intense heat that afternoon. This rules out heat stroke to me.
But if someone who had access to their food, drink and their normal routine wanted to do away with them for whatever reason, they could have added something to their food/drink/water knowing that they were going to head out to that long hike and would eventually succumb after consuming that at some point. And everyone would assume it was a heat stroke (especially after all the recent news about Philip Kreycik).

 

[GatorFL]

Gotta wait for toxicology on this one. 3 people and a dog aren't dropping dead 30 yards from each other from heat stroke.

 

[MimosaMornings]

What’s the humidity level in this area?

A temperature of 90 with 40 percent relative humidity will net a heat index of only 91 degrees, but it spikes to 105 degrees at relative humidity of 70 percent.

 

[muddlehead]

Gotta wait for toxicology on this one. 3 people and a dog aren't dropping dead 30 yards from each other from heat stroke.

And with water to drink still available.

Someone above theorized poison mushrooms or berries.

That's as good an explanation as any so far.

 

[GrimonTV]

And with water to drink still available.

Someone above theorized poison mushrooms or berries.

That's as good an explanation as any so far.

You need to cool the body down, usually emergency services will try get icepacks, its not just about drinking water.

 

[happyday]

So, they leave in the morning... They have water with them when they are found... This is telling! Heat stroke when they have water is less likely. I am really wondering what in the world could have happened here. It doesn't make any sense. I know people who live in AZ and hike in 100 degree weather all of the time. With experienced hikers, as long as they are careful (stop to cool off in the shade often and keep hydrated), they do not typically have issues.

I am going to suggest something a little far-fetched that no one seems to have suggested so far. Homicide and not murder-suicide. I think I read somewhere that they had household help and a nanny. Who was the household help and did they live with the family? If so, why did they not alert anyone until Monday that the family was missing?
The photo of the baby carrier at 6.45 am or so indicates they were up early - so no reason to think they didn't leave around 7 am or so for the hike planning to be back well before it got really hot. It was not a long hike so shouldn't have taken them more than 2-3 hours.
They were experienced hikers and had water with them when found and were generally "well prepared for the hike" based on various reports. They also had hiked this trail before being that it was right at their doorstep. So unlikely to have got lost and wandering about in the intense heat that afternoon. This rules out heat stroke to me.
But if someone who had access to their food, drink and their normal routine wanted to do away with them for whatever reason, they could have added something to their food/drink/water knowing that they were going to head out to that long hike and would eventually succumb after consuming that at some point. And everyone would assume it was a heat stroke (especially after all the recent news about Philip Kreycik).

Problem is in an article posted earlier, LE says they set out that AFTERNOON. I had also assumed they hiked early—because most people do that when it’s this hot and because they uploaded a pic of the baby backpack at 6:45 am.

 

[Figuring]

Avid outdoorspeople. Could they have eaten a mushroom or some other berry found along trail, and passed it to baby through breastmilk....? I have no idea if the second part is even possible, but I am from the West Coast and part of the mycology community. There are many FB groups for identifying poisonous mushrooms and countless stories every day about dogs/people eating foraged mushrooms that may be poisonous...

I specifically find it odd that the dog died right next to them. If they all died of heatstroke or something natural/environmental like this, you would think the dog would run off or continue on when humans could not to look for a water source or shade. Not pass away right next to them.

I was totally wondering if they ingested something. It didn't even have to be passed to the baby... all it would take for all to die out there is for the 2 adults to be incapacitated. This is a tenuous connection but on her IG she does have a pic of what appears to be foraged mushrooms. However, wouldn't they maybe find that in their stomachs in autopsy?

 

[Figuring]

I may have missed this elsewhere in the thread. Do we know where they were found, but what was the name of the trail they were on, was it "hite cove"? Does anyone know if the trail was ultimately a loop? The reason I ask is it's assumed they walked almost the whole trail & were close to their car. But is it possible they went through the trail backwards, & had only gone a small ways from the car before something happened? Just trying to think out of the box here...

 

[annpats]

I am going to suggest something a little far-fetched that no one seems to have suggested so far. Homicide and not murder-suicide. I think I read somewhere that they had household help and a nanny. Who was the household help and did they live with the family? If so, why did they not alert anyone until Monday that the family was missing?
The photo of the baby carrier at 6.45 am or so indicates they were up early - so no reason to think they didn't leave around 7 am or so for the hike planning to be back well before it got really hot. It was not a long hike so shouldn't have taken them more than 2-3 hours.
They were experienced hikers and had water with them when found and were generally "well prepared for the hike" based on various reports. They also had hiked this trail before being that it was right at their doorstep. So unlikely to have got lost and wandering about in the intense heat that afternoon. This rules out heat stroke to me.
But if someone who had access to their food, drink and their normal routine wanted to do away with them for whatever reason, they could have added something to their food/drink/water knowing that they were going to head out to that long hike and would eventually succumb after consuming that at some point. And everyone would assume it was a heat stroke (especially after all the recent news about Philip Kreycik).

I read in the news reports that the nanny only works Monday to Friday. She turned up at their house to work on Monday morning, and no-one was there. That was the first indication something was wrong.

 

[NSamuelle]

I may have missed this elsewhere in the thread. Do we know where they were found, but what was the name of the trail they were on, was it "hite cove"? Does anyone know if the trail was ultimately a loop? The reason I ask is it's assumed they walked almost the whole trail & were close to their car. But is it possible they went through the trail backwards, & had only gone a small ways from the car before something happened? Just trying to think out of the box here...

They were on the Savage Lundy trail, in the middle of a series of challenging switchbacks.

 

[annpats]

You need to cool the body down, usually emergency services will try get icepacks, its not just about drinking water.

Exactly. Once heatstroke starts, it can be quick. Drinking may be impossible, you may not even feel hot. You're not thinking, you may be staggering around, losing consciousness, your body is shutting down.

Having fluid in your stomach wouldn't help anyway. When it gets to this point, it's too late.

Water would help for heat exhaustion, but not heat stroke. They are 2 very different things.

 

[Figuring]

They were on the Savage Lundy trail, in the middle of a series of challenging switchbacks.

Thank you!

 

[annpats]

They were on the Savage Lundy trail, in the middle of a series of challenging switchbacks.

Too much physical challenge, in too much heat.

Even people who are California natives and are used to doing long trails in warm weather can be caught out. Poor Philip Kreycik was one recently.
This whole website is full of people like them. Weather and terrain can be deadly, even for pros and regulars.