CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death remote hiking area, Aug 2021

[loveisthemovement]

"The mystery surrounding the deaths of a couple, their baby daughter and the family dog found on a hiking trail near Yosemite National Park is deepening after autopsies yielded no immediate clues as to what caused their deaths."

Family found dead on hiking trail near Yosemite but no one knows how they died - CNN

 

[happyday]

Yes, and one article I read said that sometimes the body can go straight to heat stroke without even experiencing heat exhaustion. Either way, it’s deadly. I can’t imagine even wanting to get out of the car if the temperature was that high. Despite the fact that the sheriff said they started hiking in the afternoon, I wonder if they started in the morning when it was cooler and went further than they should have. Or perhaps it took longer than expected to drive to the trail. Of course, he may have a good reason for saying they started out in the afternoon, but it’s hard to imagine.

I wonder why they think they started out in the afternoon? Since their last communication was texting the pic of the baby hiking backpack at 6:45am that morning, I assume they started hiking early. Pretty sure they lived not too far from the trailhead so I don’t think it would take too long to drive to it.

I wonder if they started the hike in the morning but got turned around/lost on trails and it ended up taking hours longer in the extreme heat? It’s happened to me.

 

[annpats]

Right, I posted a link upthread saying that Heat Exhaustion comes on first and if not corrected it can turn into Heat Stroke within 30 minutes.

Exactly. There is a big difference between heat exhaustion and heat stroke.

Heat stroke kills. I'm thinking they now all had heat stroke.

Especially as the man was found sitting down. That indicates he tried to rest.

But too late. Even rest wouldn't have helped in those temperatures.

It was madness to even consider a hike there. Same with the runner Philip Kreycik who also died a few weeks ago in California after going for a jog in a rural recreational area, in temperatures over 100 degrees Fahrenheit.

That's over 37.5°C, which is just ridiculously hot to a British, European or Canadian. How can anyone even be out in it, let alone be walking, hiking or jogging in it?!

Even local Californians themselves can be caught out by the dangers.

It's very sad. RIP to all.

 

[annpats]

Just another thought, I wonder if Jonathan had maybe got an injury and that's why he had sat down and couldn't go for help himself?

Don't forget Johnathan was actually British, and would've never experienced these temperatures before moving to California. If you're not brought up with it, hot weather is very difficult thing to understand how quickly deadly it can be.

When you live in a country like the UK that never gets much beyond 25°C (77°F) even in the height of summer, then move to California, all hot weather feels the same, whether it's 25°C, 30°C, 35°C, 40°C....but just 5°C heat increase in weather can send your body over the edge, especially with no breeze and when exercising. It's happened to me twice, but I was never far from civilisation and only had mild heat exhaustion, not heat stroke.

It was a serious error of judgement to hike there in nearly 40°C. The very name 'California' comes from the Spanish for 'Hot Furnace' and we need to remember that and look after ourselves more.

 

[Rosegold68]

The U.K. DOES get hotter than 25 c during our summers, 30 c and upwards in more recent years.

and he’s well travelled and intelligent/experienced.

wondering if the female who was found further up the hill was coming towards her partner, or walking away from him? Which direction

 

[happyday]

There were also thunderstorm warnings that day up in the Sierra foothills.

So there IS a possibility of a lightning strike. We know it was hot and sunny, but if there was a chance of storms, there could have been some rogue lightning strikes?

 

[annpats]

The U.K. DOES get hotter than 25 c during our summers, 30 c and upwards in more recent years.

I know, I live there.

But we rarely get more than 25°C every summer. Last summer we did, this summer just a week or two of warm weather, then cool and rainy.

It's a rock in the north Atlantic, it just doesn't have the weather system to get much higher temperatures.

The UK is right in the jet stream bringing in wet and cool air, so to make out like it's on a level of heat consistent with California is incorrect.

Terrain can also be a factor and needless to say, the UK doesn't have any dry and arid areas, desert or mountainous bushland with no tree cover.

 

[coffeeandacig]

So there IS a possibility of a lightning strike. We know it was hot and sunny, but if there was a chance of storms, there could have been some rogue lightning strikes?

Just an fyi...Lightening strikes leave a burn mark on the ground or object. Even if followed by torrential rains, it will still remain.

 

[dcfi224]

Hopefully they will be able to get cell tower information to determine when the last time his phone had service was and maybe get a better idea of a timeline?

 

[Rosegold68]

I know, I live there.

But we rarely get more than 25°C every summer. Last summer we did, this summer just a week or two of warm weather, then cool and rainy.

It's a rock in the north Atlantic, it just doesn't have the weather system to get much higher temperatures.

The UK is right in the jet stream bringing in wet and cool air, so to make out like it's on a level of heat consistent with California is incorrect.

Terrain can also be a factor and needless to say, the UK doesn't have any dry and arid areas, desert or mountainous bushland with no tree cover.

well yes, i live in the UK too and I sell air cooling systems. our sales definitely rise year on year and its been hot down here for more than a few weeks, definitely not the hottest summer but temps are increasing prob due to global issues but i'm happy with the sales!

 

[Rosegold68]

Hopefully they will be able to get cell tower information to determine when the last time his phone had service was and maybe get a better idea of a timeline?

were there any witnesses on the trail who saw them? not sure i've seen it anywhere but then half the reports are unavailable to EU so may have missed those

 

[happyday]

Just an fyi...Lightening strikes leave a burn mark on the ground or object. Even if followed by torrential rains, it will still remain.

Yeah I would expect some sort of burn mark even from an indirect strike like a ground current strike. It makes some sense b/c of frequent lightning in area and it’s a real threat for all hikers. And it could account for the seemingly suddenness of the event.

BUT I’m leaning away from lightning b/c of the statistics that only 10% of people struck actually die. And here we have all 4 dead. Also I would think there would be some tell-tale signs, burns etc. And mainly b/c we now know they were found with the father sitting and the mother further up the hill—likely going to get help. That makes me think of something slower like heat stroke.

 

[Thechaoz]

I'd wager everything I had on suicide or murder suicide and it's not even close

 

[Megnut]

This is the part that intrigues me:



Even though they were “in the middle of the trail” (as opposed to being off trail, I assume), Jonathan must have been leaning against a tree or rock to have died sitting up. He wasn’t holding the baby or perhaps had dropped the baby when he died? Could Ellen have started to go ahead for help since she was “just a little further up the hill”? If they were “returning to their truck” I wonder how far they had hiked.

It is such a tragedy.

Perhaps they hiked longer and farther than originally planned... before the heat really ramped up... and were trying to beat the heat on the way back to their car... exhausted all of them, perhaps dad sat down to wait, to let mom catch up to them, all succumbing to the unrelenting heat maximized by exertion.

Maybe they'd been at it for 6-8 hours.

Heartbreaking whatever happened.

JMO

 

[Kaley Smith]

So poisoning has been ruled out? If you're not used to heat you're even less likely to go out in it, don't you think? They must have started out in the morning, as no one in their right minds would willingly go out on a long hike in the afternoon with a baby in those extreme temperatures. By all reports, the baby had doting parents. I read the father was 45 and the mother was 31, so maybe she was better able to withstand the heat and lived longer?

 

[Snoopster]

I found this article about heatstroke interesting:

What It Feels Like to Die from Heatstroke

Your excess heat literally blows away in the wind. But for this to work properly, the sweat must evaporate. When the air lies close and unmoving, heavy with humidity, sweat evaporates more slowly. If the air is saturated enough, or if impermeable fabric—or, in your case, a surfboard and a chest pack—trap the sweat against your skin, the moisture won’t evaporate at all.

What you don’t know is how remarkably fast the human body can expel water to cool itself—one and a half liters or more per hour. (Highly efficient, heat-acclimated marathoners can lose close to four liters per hour while they run.) The human gut, however, can absorb only a little over one liter of water per hour. That means that during maximum rates of water loss, it’s possible to drink steadily and still become dehydrated.

You’d heard that the human body needs time to fully adjust to heat. What you didn’t know is that it generally needs about 7 to 14 days. By gradually building your exercise time outdoors in heat and humidity, your body learns to activate its cooling response at lower temperatures.

I've been wondering if they all could have died from heatstroke. Were they acclimated to this environment?

One hypothetical scenario: Something happened to one of the adults and they were overcome by heatstroke. The other (carrying the child in a child carrier) struggled to help them and then they also succumbed as a result of overexertion. The child would ultimately die and perhaps the dog refused to leave them.

While the post-mortem signs of heatstroke can be non-apparent in some cases though, it would be surprising if none of them showed any symptoms?
https://www.aaimedicine.org/journal-of-insurance-medicine/jim/2002/034-02-0114.pdf

 

[happyday]

Perhaps they hiked longer and farther than originally planned... before the heat really ramped up... and were trying to beat the heat on the way back to their car... exhausted all of them, perhaps dad sat down to wait, to let mom catch up to them, all succumbing to the unrelenting heat maximized by exertion.

Maybe they'd been at it for 6-8 hours.

Heartbreaking whatever happened.

JMO

This is exactly what I’m now thinking. Maybe something like a 4 hour hike turned into all day in 109 degrees. I’ve gotten lost on a hike in the desert, and I was only in overheated panic mode for about 30 minutes. If they were lost for hours they could have just not quite made it back in time. They had a little water left in the bladder—they were probably conserving.

 

[happyday]

So poisoning has been ruled out? If you're not used to heat you're even less likely to go out in it, don't you think? They must have started out in the morning, as no one in their right minds would willingly go out on a long hike in the afternoon with a baby in those extreme temperatures. By all reports, the baby had doting parents. I read the father was 45 and the mother was 31, so maybe she was better able to withstand the heat and lived longer?

I’m really wondering what time they got to the trailhead. Surely they would have checked the truck’s gps to find out.

 

[tarabull]

Thank you for sharing - wow. I believe it.
Altitude shifts and microclimates combined with extreme heat and dehydration are a lot more brutal than many people realize, even if they're experienced hikers (they were new to the area).

I also wonder if the smoke from on going fires drafting from multiple neighboring states/provinces/regions c. etc. could have also played a role in further incapacitating their respiratory system and bodies in general.

But insync?

 

[Officer Dibble]

I found this article about heatstroke interesting:

What It Feels Like to Die from Heatstroke








I've been wondering if they all could have died from heatstroke. Were they acclimated to this environment?

One hypothetical scenario: Something happened to one of the adults and they were overcome by heatstroke. The other (carrying the child in a child carrier) struggled to help them and then they also succumbed as a result of overexertion. The child would ultimately die and perhaps the dog refused to leave them.

While the post-mortem signs of heatstroke can be non-apparent in some cases though, it would be surprising if none of them showed any symptoms?
https://www.aaimedicine.org/journal-of-insurance-medicine/jim/2002/034-02-0114.pdf

I agree, I believe its something along these lines