CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death remote hiking area, Aug 2021

[wary]

I've been having a hard time finding historical data for that specific area for that day, but looking at surrounding areas on that day, I really don't think it was anywhere near 107-109 that day... even at the hottest point on that day, which would've been late in the afternoon. I also find it hard to believe experienced hikers with a baby and dog would have left in the afternoon. I don't care what that SF article reported. Reporters are known to stretch the truth or re-word things for dramatic effect.

If they had left that late in the day at that high of a temperature, that would have been uncomfortable carrying a baby pack from the start. I can't see someone continuing on a hike before they even left the parking lot. I also think it would be fairly obvious to LE it was heat related if all those factors existed. They're baffled, it doesn't make sense to them.

I live in an area where toxic algae is a problem in many bodies of water, usually when drought is at its worst in what wouldn't ordinarily be stagnant water. Typically it's dogs that suffer the most, but I've known a few people who have swam in an affected lake and had some minor issues, such as mild blistering around the mouth (they did not intentionally ingest any water, just swam). No smart hiker would ever drink straight from a river like that. They would have had to be in serious trouble to begin with to even consider drinking it. I could believe swimming in it, if you were not aware, but wasn't it marked? I would think most dog owners would know how toxic it is to animals especially.

All of these things could have happened, but they're not likely... not with seemingly very intelligent and experienced hikers. Could they have eaten something toxic on their hike? Possibly, but again not likely. I don't know these people, so there's a possibility they're a bit of risk takers, but I don't see it. If you're a forager, you know you don't eat random mushrooms on a trail.

I'd believe they possibly ended up in a little bit of trouble and things spiraled to the point of heat stroke and then death, but I think the real question is what happened to put them in that position in the first place. I just don't believe the conditions existed for that to have happened to them all in a short period of time. What surprises me most is that this trail has been described as "popular," so how is that no one came across them in that entire Sunday afternoon and all day Monday?

I think that the trail is popular in mild weather.

 

[everybodhi]

I think that the trail is popular in mild weather.

It was also much more popular before the trees burned



Edited to add photo of trailhead

 

[GrimonTV]

As there has been some discussion about temperatures in the area I thought I would post what the weather station in El Portal was recording for Temp/ Humidity that day.

6:51AM 53°F 49%
7:51AM 77°F 47%
8:51AM 85°F 37%
9:51AM 92°F 28%
10:51AM 99°F 22%
11:51AM 103°F 20%
12:51PM 107°F 17%
1:51PM 108°F 16%
2:51PM 109°F 16%
3:51PM 107°F 18%
4:51PM 105°F 19%
5:51PM 101°F 22%
6:51PM 98°F 24%
7:51PM 94°F 28%

 

[SophieRose]

Here's how the hike should have gone:

Hites Cove OHV Trail. 2.1 miles
South Fork Trail (along the river) 1.8 miles
Savage Lundy Trail. 2.9 miles
SL trailhead to HC trailhead where car parked. .3 miles

 

[woods]

I’m going to guess based on how quickly police ruled out homicide as a possibility, that they didn’t find any suspicious substances at their home.

 

[OldProtozoan]

I don’t want to be gruesome but they should try to open their phones with biometrics while they can, before face or fingerprint recognition stops working. They must already know whether calls were attempted.

Boy, that's an interesting legal question. I doubt the police are allowed to that. Use a corpse's fingerprint or hold up a phone to a dead man's face? Anyone heard of such a thing?

 

[RickshawFan]

Here's how the hike should have gone:

Hites Cove OHV Trail. 2.1 miles
South Fork Trail (along the river) 1.8 miles
Savage Lundy Trail. 2.9 miles
SL trailhead to HC trailhead where car parked. .3 miles

But we have no LE verification that they took the loop. It's possible they only did out-and-back.

 

[everybodhi]

Boy, that's an interesting legal question. I doubt the police are allowed to that. Use a corpse's fingerprint or hold up a phone to a dead man's face? Anyone heard of such a thing?

There's tons of examples of this online

Yes, Cops Are Now Opening iPhones With Dead People's Fingerprints

 

[woods]

As there has been some discussion about temperatures in the area I thought I would post what the weather station in El Portal was recording for Temp/ Humidity that day.

6:51AM 53°F 49%
7:51AM 77°F 47%
8:51AM 85°F 37%
9:51AM 92°F 28%
10:51AM 99°F 22%
11:51AM 103°F 20%
12:51PM 107°F 17%
1:51PM 108°F 16%
2:51PM 109°F 16%
3:51PM 107°F 18%
4:51PM 105°F 19%
5:51PM 101°F 22%
6:51PM 98°F 24%
7:51PM 94°F 28%

Is there a website link to this? I appreciate the research.

 

[OldProtozoan]

There's tons of examples of this online

ww.google.co.id/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2018/03/22/yes-cops-are-now-opening-iphones-with-dead-peoples-fingerprints/amp/

le.co.id/amp/s/www.techrepublic.com/google-amp/article/biometrics-and-the-law-police-try-to-unlock-phone-with-dead-mans-fingerprint/

Wow! Thanks!

 

[woods]

I am not clear how this rules out foul play? If their food/drink was tainted, it might have taken some time for the toxins to take effect and immobilize them.

I’d imagine any kind of poison would quickly kill an infant and a dog. I just think that if foul play was involved, it likely wouldn’t take what appears to be a good part of the day (in blistering hot weather) and a long hike for the poison to finally kick in, especially for the already vulnerable.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I was going to post, the other day about mushrooms, but then thought maybe they weren't around at the moment due to hot weather.

I also thought it was not likely that the dog would eat mushrooms, or the baby, unless it was blended into baby food, but if so then it must have been prepared at home.

Just some rambling thoughts.

 

[katydid23]

I've been having a hard time finding historical data for that specific area for that day, but looking at surrounding areas on that day, I really don't think it was anywhere near 107-109 that day... even at the hottest point on that day, which would've been late in the afternoon. I also find it hard to believe experienced hikers with a baby and dog would have left in the afternoon. I don't care what that SF article reported. Reporters are known to stretch the truth or re-word things for dramatic effect.

If they had left that late in the day at that high of a temperature, that would have been uncomfortable carrying a baby pack from the start. I can't see someone continuing on a hike before they even left the parking lot. I also think it would be fairly obvious to LE it was heat related if all those factors existed. They're baffled, it doesn't make sense to them.

I live in an area where toxic algae is a problem in many bodies of water, usually when drought is at its worst in what wouldn't ordinarily be stagnant water. Typically it's dogs that suffer the most, but I've known a few people who have swam in an affected lake and had some minor issues, such as mild blistering around the mouth (they did not intentionally ingest any water, just swam). No smart hiker would ever drink straight from a river like that. They would have had to be in serious trouble to begin with to even consider drinking it. I could believe swimming in it, if you were not aware, but wasn't it marked? I would think most dog owners would know how toxic it is to animals especially.

All of these things could have happened, but they're not likely... not with seemingly very intelligent and experienced hikers. Could they have eaten something toxic on their hike? Possibly, but again not likely. I don't know these people, so there's a possibility they're a bit of risk takers, but I don't see it. If you're a forager, you know you don't eat random mushrooms on a trail.

I'd believe they possibly ended up in a little bit of trouble and things spiraled to the point of heat stroke and then death, but I think the real question is what happened to put them in that position in the first place. I just don't believe the conditions existed for that to have happened to them all in a short period of time. What surprises me most is that this trail has been described as "popular," so how is that no one came across them in that entire Sunday afternoon and all day Monday?

From what I've read, this is a popular trail---but NOT in August. Especially now that the Ferguson Fire brought down all the shade trees.

 

[OldProtozoan]

I was thinking vomiting, diarrhea, and discomfort, etc., but they've nicknamed one variety of algae 'Very Fast Death Factor'. Kills a healthy dog in 15 minutes according to one article. Meet 'Very Fast Death Factor' - The Algal Toxin Scientists Are Finding in Our Air.

 

[everybodhi]

I was going to post, the other day about mushrooms, but then thought maybe they weren't around at the moment due to hot weather.

I also thought it was not likely that the dog would eat mushrooms, or the baby, unless it was blended into baby food, but if so then it must have been prepared at home.

Just some rambling thoughts.

You're right about that, mushrooms need rain. And shade helps too.

 

[oviedo]

From what I've read, this is a popular trail---but NOT in August. Especially now that the Ferguson Fire brought down all the shade trees.

It’s perplexing IMO

Do we know -did either adult wear a smart watch or Fitbit ?

 

[Officer Dibble]

Exactly. When I had heat stroke I was a triathlete, rock climbing, kayaking. When it hit me it hit me quickly, no time to get to safety. I had some water with me so I wasn’t dehydrated. But the physical exertion and heat got to me. I collapsed, my muscles stopped working and I basically could not walk. Even if the safety of my car was a few yards away I could not get up and walk. It was as if I was paralyzed.

That explains why my son kept collapsing then.

 

[Officer Dibble]

I was going to post, the other day about mushrooms, but then thought maybe they weren't around at the moment due to hot weather.

I also thought it was not likely that the dog would eat mushrooms, or the baby, unless it was blended into baby food, but if so then it must have been prepared at home.

Just some rambling thoughts.

I think if you are poisioned by mushrooms you have violent reactions from both ends (vomit/diahorrea) before you die.

 

[Officer Dibble]

I was thinking vomiting, diarrhea, and discomfort, etc., but they've nicknamed one variety of algae 'Very Fast Death Factor'. Kills a healthy dog in 15 minutes according to one article. Meet 'Very Fast Death Factor' - The Algal Toxin Scientists Are Finding in Our Air.

Just that link title alone saying Finding in Our Air is concerning me. Edited to add that I've managed to read this now and that is VERY interesting and could well explained what has happened in this case. JMO MOO

 

[Rguycali]

That seems to be a map from the Chronicle, though. We don't have a map from LE?

I would guess some assumptions are being made by the person who drew the map. for instance, it assumes the hike was in a loop. But without LE verification, it could just as easily have been out-and-back.

<modsnip>

LE said they followed a trail of prints down the road to the trail and found them at the switchbacks in the dark. If LE supposedly followed this trail across a highway and around a loop 7.5 miles in the dark? Don't think so...they followed the prints down the road to the start/or "end" of trail closest the switchbacks.